Don’t let just anyone touch your plane

[Austintatious]

I want to tell a quick story to illustrate my above point.  I'll give the short version.

I was in a G5 at a small airport.  Me and the other pilot both walked the aircraft and pulled chocks.  We later decided to squirt on a little bit of fuel.  The fuel truck came and did their thing.  Whey they left, I went and checked the fuel door and looked at the tires from the front of the aircraft, no chocks in sight.

We did the flight and everything was normal.  But I got a call from the mechanic that night and he asked if we had hit anything.  I said no.  He explained that the sidewall of a tire was all scuffed up and a brake line was a little bent.  We figured that we must have picked up a piece of rubber on the runway when we landed.

Well, we found out from a pilot who contacted us about a month later that what had actually happened was that while fueling us at the departure airport, the line guys had put a small stubby set of chocks on the main tire.  When they tried to pull them after fueling, the rear would not pull free. So rather than bringing it to our attention, they took the front chock and stuck it back behind the tire and assumed we would just pull away from the rear chock that was jammed under the tire.  These chocks were not visible from the front of the aircraft as they were behind the large main tire.   

Well, the cock stuck to the tire, and came up off the ground and got jammed in between the tire and strut.   We got very very lucky that when we retracted the gear, the chocks fell free.  The pilot who alerted us to what had happened had seen this happen and had inquired to the FBO about what had happened... that is how we found out.

Now, I was certainly mad at the FBO.... but ultimately it was my fault.  So now, before I close the door, I do a walk of the entire aircraft to check once more for anything that may have happened since the full preflight.   It is a pain in the ass, but it is my responsibility.

[GeeBee]

You know, sometimes it is just best to walk away. Send the pictures to the shop, see what they say. If they compensate you fine, if not head on down the road, knowing you will never use them again and you can relate your experience to others. At least when the shop closes their doors they'll know why.

Going to war is expensive, takes a lot of your time and has really no effect on where you end up. If you take satisfaction in making the offender miserable, I guess war is your zeitgeist. Otherwise, walk away.

 

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

In my line of work I also often find things that others could have done better

Please allow me to continue the remainder of my life in blissful ignorance.  If I let my mind go down that rabbit hole, I might start making bad decisions.  Well ... perhaps I should say "worse decisions".

[M20F]

This is a good reminder that when you pick your plane up from maintenance, park on the ramp over night, etc.  A much stronger emphasis on preflight is required.  

[Guest]

More interesting stuff found today, one of the items could become fatal.  The MSC in question has read this thread according to my discussion with the plane owner, who is calm but disappointed.  

Having been down the road of speaking with the Regulator, TC here was no assurance of forcing compliance. The FAA may take this more seriously, but I don’t see it as my job to call them.

Going to some of the comments above.  When a maintainer signs your log book they are attesting to the work being done correctly, in accordance with regulation, in accordance with the MM, the instructions included with the STC etc.  You as the owner should not have to check every nut and bolt, solder joint, crimp or rivet. 

The signature in your log book is supposed to be your assurance that it’s done right and is safe to fly.

Clarence

[M20F]

9 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

When a maintainer signs your log book they are attesting to the work being done correctly, in accordance with regulation, in accordance with the MM, the instructions included with the STC etc.  You as the owner should not have to check every nut and bolt, solder joint, crimp or rivet. 

I can’t speak for Canada but in the US,  FAR 91.403 and 91.7 make it very clear the owner/operator is responsible.  That doesn’t mean the AP/I is absolved of responsibility as well but it is very clear where ultimately responsibility is prior to operation. 

You are not doing your customer any favors here.  Some of the pictures you posted reflect some poor decision making on the owners part and probably in violation of a couple of FAR’s.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, M20F said:

I can’t speak for Canada but in the US,  FAR 91.403 and 91.7 make it very clear the owner/operator is responsible.  That doesn’t mean the AP/I is absolved of responsibility as well but it is very clear where ultimately responsibility is prior to operation. 

You are not doing your customer any favors here.  Some of the pictures you posted reflect some poor decision making on the owners part and probably in violation of a couple of FAR’s.  

I’m curious what level of preflight inspection an FAA inspector would expect of a pilot?  I really think it would be a stretch for a pilot to be expected to find the items I’ve discovered unless the pilot were an A&P IA who does an Annual Inspection before each flight.

Clarence

[M20F]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I’m curious what level of preflight inspection an FAA inspector would expect of a pilot?  I really think it would be a stretch for a pilot to be expected to find the items I’ve discovered unless the pilot were an A&P IA who does an Annual Inspection before each flight.

Clarence

Forgetting to rivet the belly back together?  

We can debate what is fair.  The FAA is not a reasonable organization.  They are supported by regulations that are not entirely reasonable.  They have a history of doing very unreasonable things. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, M20F said:

Forgetting to rivet the belly back together?  

We can debate what is fair.  The FAA is not a reasonable organization.  They are supported by regulations that are not entirely reasonable.  They have a history of doing very unreasonable things. 

Could any of us honestly say that they would have caught the missing rivets on a preflight?  I know what my answer would be.

Clarence

[M20F]

4 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Could any of us honestly say that they would have caught the missing rivets on a preflight?  I know what my answer would be.

Clarence

Clarence will leave it with you.  It isn’t a matter of what any of us find reasonable it is just what the FAR’s are (clear in this case) and the opinion of a the FAA (unclear in most cases).  

If that were my plane and you were posting all these pictures, would say I wouldn’t be happy.  But that is between you and your customer. 

[RLCarter]

6 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Could any of us honestly say that they would have caught the missing rivets on a preflight?  I know what my answer would be.

Clarence

Not unless your preflight checklist includes dragging out a creeper

[chriscalandro]

23 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Could any of us honestly say that they would have caught the missing rivets on a preflight?  I know what my answer would be.

Clarence

Yes. 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

More interesting stuff found today, one of the items could become fatal.  

I’m not saying you should report, as I believe it’s the owners duty and their complaint will carry a lot more weight, but does someone have to die before you people think the FAA should be notified?

99% of them take their jobs seriously and are reasonable people, but they need help policing maintenance activities.

Over and over I hear on here about how crappy maintenance people are, and how you can buy an Annual sign off with a case of beer etc. 

If this is really true and you don’t report the perpetrators then you are a large part of the problem, if the FAA isn’t notified about unsafe conditions, then how do you expect then to change, by body count?

 

[Danb]

Since Clarence didn’t name the MSC I didn’t notice he mentioned the N number so why not inform us of what can and does occur from maintenance. Stating the FARs regarding preflight or lack thereof mentioning the pilot is responsible for finding something of this nature is doesn’t make sense. You just have had major engine work done and the engines fails should we have pulled the cylinders and inspected. I had a friend lose his engine shortly after takeoff from engine work, the mechanic left a rag in the cylinder this I suppose the pilots fault for not properly doing a preflight. Really.

[GeeBee]

Basically you are held responsible for pre-flight items on the check list in the POH or AFM. For instance,  a loose wire behind a panel that is not required to be removed in the POH pre-flight is not fair game, even if the airplane was just worked on.

In the case of the M20R it refers to the are in the OP as "General skin condition". So it would be fair game for the FAA.

We had an airplane leave maintenance once and a wood plug was in place of a passenger window. It was not picked up and it blew out at 6000 feet. The pilot was dinged for inadequate inspection because the manual said, "windows, check condition" 

I another case, we had an airplane that had ice on top of the horizontal stab, but not on the wings.  The airplane experienced control difficulties but no one was dinged because checking the top of the horizontal stab was not part of the pre-flight procedure.

[hais]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

More interesting stuff found today, one of the items could become fatal.  The MSC in question has read this thread according to my discussion with the plane owner, who is calm but disappointed.  

Having been down the road of speaking with the Regulator, TC here was no assurance of forcing compliance. The FAA may take this more seriously, but I don’t see it as my job to call them.

Going to some of the comments above.  When a maintainer signs your log book they are attesting to the work being done correctly, in accordance with regulation, in accordance with the MM, the instructions included with the STC etc.  You as the owner should not have to check every nut and bolt, solder joint, crimp or rivet. 

The signature in your log book is supposed to be your assurance that it’s done right and is safe to fly.

Clarence

I think we need a database here of experiences - empowering us to mitigate accidents due to omissions outside of regulatory path. 

I've had issues myself with a MSC. 

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, M20F said:

Clarence will leave it with you.  It isn’t a matter of what any of us find reasonable it is just what the FAR’s are (clear in this case) and the opinion of a the FAA (unclear in most cases).  

If that were my plane and you were posting all these pictures, would say I wouldn’t be happy.  But that is between you and your customer. 

Since he hasn't disclosed tail number or serial number it would be a little tough to figure it out from just a dark colored Ovation.

[PT20J]

The real message here is that we need a thorough preflight after maintenance. Perhaps not as egregious as this, but all shops make errors. I’ve found stuff missing/unsecured after maintenance from some really good shops. Worst was the missing cotter pins on all the nuts securing the pitch links on a Schweitzer 300. 

For me, the scariest is engine overhaul because I cannot see inside. One of the reasons I went for a factory rebuilt is that Lycoming builds everything now on the same line with the same QA: New, rebuilt, overhaul — the only difference is the parts; assembly, inspection and test are the same.

Skip

[jaylw314]

15 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I’ll openly admit to not laying on my back and inspecting the bottom of the aircraft for a pre-flight. I see it when I wash it and during Annual, I think that’s true of most responsible pilots.

I do on my post-maintenance preflight!

One of my more entertaining post-maintenance incidents was after having the shop put in my new LED's during the annual.  In the hangar, he showed me all the pretty new LED's on, both the strobes and nav lights.  He pulled the plane out, and I went ahead and did my pre-flight to depart.  I toss the checklist in the backseat for this--it's literally go over everything possible I can reach and turn on.  I flip the strobe lights on and walk around, sure enough the tail strobe is good, but I groaned when I saw the wing strobes off.  I looked closer and realized, WTH, the wing nav lights are on but the strobes are off?  I turn the strobe light switch off and turn the nav light switch on, and I started laughing because the wing nav lights are off but the strobes are on.   I had a hard time telling my IA without bursting out laughing, but he turned beet red and apologized, realizing he had been testing them by turning both switches on at the same time.  He dropped what he was doing and fixed it, which took 15 minutes.

Luckily it was a pretty trivial problem, but that first preflight after maintenance is the time to be extra anal