What the heck is an Ipad!?

[201er]

My ipad is getting old, not holding charge well, and my 1 year old has claimed it as his so I figured I'd treat myself to a new one to keep exclusively for flying. I go to buy one and there's a bujillion different models. What the heck? I feel so old... back in the day you would pick between an ipad or a mini. Wifi or 4g. Life was simple.

Has anyone bought an ipad lately? Does it make any difference at all for our flying apps from the bottom end to the top? I'm still using a 1st or 2nd gen ipad air.

I would kind of rather get a cheaper one and claim it EXCLUSIVELY for the airplane and not have a bunch of junk for other purposes on it slowing it down. I just want my flying apps to run smoothly, keep the battery strong in case of power failure, and that's it.

Anyone have a modern ipad and ipad air for comparison? As far as I can tell the only feature of the ipad air that sounds like a big deal to me is "Antireflective coating" maybe that helps when the sun is beaming in. I doubt the speed and other features will matter much if our flying apps run on old school ipads from back when there was less choices. Any advice?

[Parker_Woodruff]

I sold my mini 4 and pre-ordered the most recent mini (wifi only)...should get it in a couple/few weeks.

[A64Pilot]

I have whatever the latest mini is, I’m on a big pro now, which is in my opinion too big for the airplane.

I’ve never bought a Cellular IPAD always used bluetooth GPS, currently using a Garmin GDL-39 that’s connected to my 696 that’s panel mounted.

Many years ago I ran Chart Case on a Motion tablet with “view anywhere” display. That’s the biggest drawback to an Ipad in my opinion, the display isn’t as bright as many consumer electronics, nor is it glare free.  The Motion tablet had a much better display than an Ipad, whatever that’s worth.

I’ve never seen a performance difference running EFB apps like Foreflight on an IPAD, but I’m sure there is some, If all it’s going to do is run foreflight etc, you don’t need much memory, it’s videos and pictures etc that eat memory

[ArtVandelay]

You definitely need a better CPU with modern flying apps: dynamic maps, traffic, weather, glide rings, etc. All need to be rendered…if not using above, just using as static charts, then no.
Basic memory (64GB ) should be enough unless you store music or videos on it.

[LANCECASPER]

The mini seems to be the most popular for aviation. I have a prior generation iPad Pro 10.5 inch and the size works fine for me. I use it only for aviation. The equivalent now would be the iPad Pro 11 inch (same size just less bezel and more screen  https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-pro). The processors are always much faster on the Pro version, but it looks like the new mini has a fast processor as well. The screens on the Pro are always brighter as well which is great for daytime flying; Also the standard storage gig are always bigger on the Pro which narrows the price gap. My almost 4 year old unit still runs everything and is still very fast. I'll probably upgrade this one within the next year or two. Buying the fastest one means you're not buying every 3-4 years but more like 5-6 years.

I like the cellular version since it has the GPS chip built in. (I don't activate the cell service on this iPad) If I was ever in a situation where I didn't have a bluetooth GPS source I'd still have position. Also if there was ever a GPS outage where the U. S. government is doing testing the GPS chipset in the iPad will also pick up the GLONASS GPS constellation so again I have a position source even if my panel GPS is out.

As far as the cost difference between cellular (built-in GPS) and Wi-Fi only it's around $150. That's so insignificant in aviation dollars that it isn't even a rounding error. Plus when I go to sell it when I'm done the GPS version is always worth at least $75 more. $75 extra every 4 years is literally not even worth mentioning.

[Amelia]

I have a Mini5, and always a sucker for airplane bling, I went and played with the newest iPad mini6. Yes, the slightly bigger screen is nice, and the display seems lovely, and my current nearly 2 year old mini5 has a small crack, but honestly, I find I’m not tempted to upgrade. This one, the 5,  still does everything I need to do. The size is perfect, it’s easy to hold, plenty bright and fast, and I think I will wait. You might find a good refurb deal on the iPad mini 5.

[sleeper-319]

I don’t know it all, but did recently do the investigation you’re doing. I have a 11” pro 3rd Gen (there is no 4th in that size at this time). It’s about the same form factor as the 10” pro I had before this. I use it daily for work, personal stuff, and of course for flying. My wife has the current iPad Air, and I think you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference between the pro and air while flying with either. There is one major difference that might matter though: the Pro uses “Face ID” to unlock and the Air uses “Touch ID“ to unlock. 

Face ID on the pro (when it works) it is very fast. Faster than Touch ID or passcode, unfortunately the success rate is pretty low for me in ordinary life, and with a headset and sunglasses, it’s just ass. Touch ID successfully unlocks way more often. This difference isn’t huge for me, because I just leave the iPad plugged in and running all the time. I know some people who leave it off most of the time and use it to look at charts & such, and for that kind of use, Touch ID might be better than Face ID. 

The newer models have faster processors, and faster charging, and the faster charging (with the right charger) is really nice to have. But  as for other technical differences… I think you’d be hard pressed to notice a difference in on processor or LTE vs 5G while flying. For Foreflight, the app tends to work the same across the models. 

This current iPad replaced a previous iPad Pro, and while in daily use the new Pro is much better, for Foreflight, the older pro, the air, and the current pro all are about the same.

[FlyingScot]

I have a 10.9" (2020) iPad Air - love it with a MyGoFlight Yoke mount. It fits between the horns (profile orientation) with enough room left over on both sides for hands to fit comfortably and without interference. Blocks the view of the lower panel, though, roughly below the bottom of the HSI, which means I have to look around it to see the lower switches, etc.

I have an iPad Mini 6 coming in a week or so, so I'll give a comparison pirep if that helps. I'm hoping the smaller form factor will block a bit less of the lower panel.

Also good review of current options - https://ipadpilotnews.com/2021/10/whats-the-best-ipad-for-pilots-2021-buyers-guide/

 

[philip_g]

I too like the minis size for the plane. I ran a mini 2 until it got too slow to render maps reasonably. Now I have a mini 4 or 5 Cellular. Whichever isn't the one announced a month or two ago, the one before that. I like the built in Gps but hate paying an extra $200 to get it....

Edited October 17, 2021 by philip_g

[201er]

40 minutes ago, sleeper-319 said:

There is one major difference that might matter though: the Pro uses “Face ID” to unlock and the Air uses “Touch ID“ to unlock.

That's another reason I want a dedicated ipad with no lock at all. No fiddling with it in the airplane and not using it for anything that would merit locking it.

Do you think getting one of the cheaper models and using it exclusively for the airplane is a better idea?

I already have an iphone that I use for all the other stuff so I no longer end up using the ipad for those purposes.

[hammdo]

I have an iPad pro (12.9) and iPad 5 mini. Pro I use for anything (all flight planning, reading etc.) both are WiFi only and max memory.

The 5 mini is unlocked all the time and I use it for flight panning/weather also and cockpit use. With ForeFlight, I get what I plan on the pro sent to the 5 so no issues.

I have WiFi hotspot on the phone so that takes care of that when I need it (like opening flight plan the switch back to stratux). Stratus for ADSB WiFi and I'm good to go.

-Don

[McMooney]

I currently use Garmin Pilot on an IPad Mini5, Samsung Tab S7 and Samsung ultra S21+, everything works great. BUTTTT

mainly due to size,  i'll be replacing the Samsung Tab with an IPad Mini6.

Also, i tend to prefer the cell/gps model,  it's nice being able to work independent of wifi or another device

 

 

[201er]

Still totally confused but trying to weed through it all. I have another question, how's the power draw on these new high powered ipads? Can the cigarette lighter charger we can normally use in the plane sufficient to keep it from discharging at full brightness? My Ipad Air 2 loses percent lately it seems unless I lower the brightness. I wonder if it's because it's getting old or something else. But, I worry that the newer ipads may be effectively battery powered because their consumption would exceed the charger?

[A64Pilot]

IF you have the right charger it will charge even when operating at max brightness, forget the name of the charger but it uses the mini not standard usb cable end, newer mini anyway

USB-PD I think it’s called

Edited October 17, 2021 by A64Pilot

[201er]

16 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

USB-PD I think it’s called

Wow, I feel so old. Just looked it up. I can't believe how much this changes every time.

In this case, can people also suggest a specific charger that is very effective and DOES NOT INDUCE NOISE in the intercom? I've had problems with certain chargers being the cause of trouble. Almost tore my panel around looking for the source until someone suggested to check that first.

[LANCECASPER]

12 minutes ago, 201er said:

Wow, I feel so old. Just looked it up. I can't believe how much this changes every time.

In this case, can people also suggest a specific charger that is very effective and DOES NOT INDUCE NOISE in the intercom? I've had problems with certain chargers being the cause of trouble. Almost tore my panel around looking for the source until someone suggested to check that first.

Anker is good. USB-C is the way to go.

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-PowerIQ-PowerDrive-Delivery/dp/B07RL2N8YY/ref=sxin_15?crid=1GS5ZEVH0EETZ&cv_ct_cx=anker+charger+usb+c&dchild=1&keywords=anker+charger+usb+c&pd_rd_i=B07RL2N8YY&pd_rd_r=e0d7994e-316d-4268-b2cf-d701fdd05245&pd_rd_w=khy9h&pd_rd_wg=7tcXu&pf_rd_p=7680c78b-d589-44bf-a68b-b91d33d6b79d&pf_rd_r=NF7P65R7S0C3PDPV9AH4&qid=1634503420&sprefix=anker+charger%2Caps%2C1024&sr=1-2-3285591f-ac22-4427-9297-d177dffec536

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

I sold my mini 4 and pre-ordered the most recent mini (wifi only)...should get it in a couple/few weeks.

I prefer having the cellular even if I don’t use it just because it includes gps.  Depending on your avionics, you can probably get gps Bluetooth, but maybe not in an electric failure (GTX345 gone too?).  I currently use a very old mini, dedicated to the airplane.  It doesn’t update to the newest foreflight though because of it’s age.  It’s also wifi only, so if I have an electrical issue, gps from my GTX345 is gone and I’m down to my phone (or clock to map to ground using the ipad as a map without gps).  For my work plane, the company bought me a new pro with lots of space for all the ff downloads in the northwest.  It’s too big for the Mooney in my opinion, I like the mini for that.  I also don’t like that they got rid of the home button and it requires a different type of charger!

Edited October 17, 2021 by Ragsf15e

[Hank]

3 hours ago, philip_g said:

I too like the minis size for the plane. I ran a mini 2 until it got too slow to render maps reasonably. Now I have a mini 4 or 5 Cellular. Whichever isn't the one announced a month or two ago, the one before that. I like the built in Gps but hate paying an extra $200 to get it....

That's why I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab. Even the < $200 wifi-only models have GPS. But Foreflight isn't android friendly, you'd have to use something else like Flight Plan Go, iFly,  Avare, etc.

[philip_g]

21 minutes ago, Hank said:

That's why I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab. Even the < $200 wifi-only models have GPS. But Foreflight isn't android friendly, you'd have to use something else like Flight Plan Go, iFly,  Avare, etc.

I normally don't love Apple products but the iPad is pretty reliable so I stick with it

[donkaye]

I previously had the iPad Air 2 cellular.  Over time it became slow and jerky with Garmin Pilot and finally over the past year the battery wouldn't hold a charge.  I have a student who works at Apple, so 3 weeks ago, after a lot of iPad investigation and discussions with him, I bought the iPad Pro 11 inch cellular version with 256 GB of memory.

I just got back from a flight from San Jose to Kerrville.  No comparison as to how much faster it is than my previous iPad, and I used it numerous times to file from non towered airports like Fort Stockton.  Although the size is just slightly larger than the previous iPad, I do notice it for the better.

I have managed the battery on all my iPads pretty well, but this new iPad really is good on battery life.  It's such a relief to open it up a couple of days after not using it and having it read in the low 90% instead of 35% where the last one would read and shortly thereafter shut down.

I had my previous android phone for about 8 years and changed its battery a couple of times.  This time even with a battery change it couldn't hold a charge for even 6 hours.  That was it.  Just like going all Garmin, it was time for me to go all Apple.  Last week I bought the iPhone Pro 13.  I  was surprised how easily it was to transfer all my important data (pictures, contacts, and text messages (no call logs)) over to it with the help of an Apple Store associate.  It did take an hour and a half, but during that time the associate answered all my many questions.  What a difference 8 years makes.  The phone is lightning fast and can do so much more than my previous Android that I had nursed along for so many years.  The battery life is amazing to me.  In a day's modest amount of use I still find its charge level to be in the high 70s.

[carusoam]

Kids and iPads are perfect together!

All kinds of educational / entertainment and power management lessons they get….  

 

I’m in the CB replace as needed category…

currently using iPad (6th generation)

Next update will be iPad (8th generation)

Select GPS, if your phone doesn’t do this for you enough…

Select higher level of memory, if you intend to carry your videos and creative stuff with you all the time…

Select color to match your personality…

Select a cover, in case you get the dropsies…

Select a pen, in case you want to write clearances down or draw a line on the airport layout… new iPads have a nice charging setup…

Generation six has finger print based security… works pretty well until your finger gets wet…. Program lots of fingers, thumbs, and probably wet and dry….   Four digit code entry is required if your fingers are cheese puff covered…

Some models seem to have voice recognition as well… if you haven’t set that up yet….  Hey Siri… 

 

My iPad habit started with WingX…

My sky radar supplies the WAAS input for my blue dot…

My finger still works, so no pen yet…

My keyboard wasn’t as useful as expected, so I learned to type on the screen pretty well… no click feedback required.

My airplane didn’t get a dedicated iPad… that is probably a really good idea…

 

Security concerns…

very little financial info travels around on portable personal stuff… it can always be left behind accidentally…

having fingerprint data in the hands of corporate America…

having face recognition data in the hands of corporate America…

having DNA information in the hands of corporate America…

Probably not an issue until after you commit a crime, or somebody in your family does…   

 

New iMacs get announced Monday Morning…

PP thoughts only… not a genetic data maven…

Best regards,

-a-

[Tommooney]

Does anyone know of an informational heads up display that could show the iphone or ipad mini foreflight / stratus info on top of the dash or attached to center post?

I do see cheap iphone attachments on Amazon but poor reviews.

Thanks

Tom

[201er]

Thanks for all your comments. There's so much variation so it's still pretty confusing.

So I went to an Apple store to find out what the heck is an ipad these days. There's about 30 variants but that's cause there's different colors, different memory levels, and wifi only vs cellular models. But in whole it comes down to 4 current models:

Ipad

Ipad Air

Ipad Mini

Ipad Pro

 

Any idiot can understand what a mini is, it's the smaller one that's halfway between an iphone and an ipad. If you like a smaller ipad, mini and you're done. I mount mine on the copilot yoke so it doesn't block any instruments so I need a full size one. That leaves us Ipad, Ipad Air, Ipad Pro.

Until recently I was flying with an Ipad Air 2 64ggb (max at the time) wifi only. It has always been more than enough for all my flying apps. Mainly it's just the battery getting worn out at this time and running glithy and randomly shutting off. Not reliable enough in the air. So my question to Apple was, if my Air 2 is sufficient for my needs, do I really need the new Ipad Air 4 or is the regular Ipad at half that price sufficient? They went down the specs and as far as I could tell there's no apparent difference between the $329 and $599 models except a faster processor and they couldn't even say by how much. Their only answer was "Your Ipad Air 2 has a #8 processor, the Ipad has a #13 processor and the Ipad Air 4 has a #14 processor. What does that even mean? How much faster is it? Nobody at the apple store even knows. Their answer is just that 14 is more than 13 and 13 is more than 8. So, the gist I got out of all of this is that we pilots have been running our EFB's on Ipads going back all the way to the first few generations without any trouble. The cheapest new ones are at least as fast and most likely significantly faster than the top of the line ones a few generations ago.

The only obvious difference between the Ipad and Ipad Air 4 is that the Ipad has a familiar home button and the Air doesn't and adds some half inch more screen or something that you can't even tell. We're splitting hairs here in difference but twice the price.

So between what I found and the Apply people said, there's no reason to get anything more than the most basic Ipad model they have for dedicated EFB use. Only get a higher model if you want to do really funky stuff with it at home and that's not reading email, watching youtube, and posting on mooneyspace. Although the last one can get pretty heated. The battery life on all Ipad models is the same. The screen size is virtually the same within an inch. There is no appreciable difference between all new ipad models for an EFB. Heck, I'm sure you can get a refurbished one from a few models ago and run perfectly fine if you don't mind it being refurb. However, the price of a new bottom end ipad is about the same as older high end refurb models so there's no point.

Ok, all's good but there's one hiccup. After deciding which model to get they tell me "oh and by the way this isn't in stock. Not any variant of it, not any color, not at any apple store, not online, not for over a month." Why the heck are they putting them out on display and talking customers into them when they don't even remotely have them!?

I have an IPC this Friday so I really wanted to have a new one available by then. I've never had a problem picking something up like that before. I tried Best Buy, Target, Walmart. Let me tell you what they're saying about shelves being empty is true. All of them are out of stock not only on this model but many other ones too. There is some kind of mass shortage going on. Online was no help either.

I tried one large local non-chain electronic supplier in NYC that I trust and they happened to have the basic ipad just in a different color so I ordered it! Wow, couldn't imagine replacing an ipad could be this complicated and difficult.

I'll post an update after I fly with it.

 

[201er]

Now it turns out Appareo Stratus 3 are out of stock nationwide till December

[donkaye]

The older iPad Air 2 running the newest Garmin Pilot application was totally unacceptable to me.  It painted the maps unbelievably slow and occasionally bombed out completely.  Each iteration of GP has added more and more functionality such that the older iPads couldn't keep up.  I see that continuing to happen with each new iteration.  Cheap doesn't always cut it.  The speedy new iPad Pro I bought a couple of weeks ago has none of those problems---yet.