Buying a Mooney that wasn't hangared

[NotarPilot]

What is the general opinion about buying a Mooney that wasn't hangared but you had the intention of hangaring it after buying it?  Assuming there were no noticable corrosion issues found on the prebuy.

 

I've seen several Mooneys I like but some of them aren't currently hangared.  Should I steer clear of these planes or should I just see what the prebuy shows?

[Parker_Woodruff]

What model year?  In what specific part of which state was it not hangared?

My M20J did just fine for 2 years without being hangared.

[N601RX]

It's not a deal killer.  It will fade the paint, interriorand make the windows look hazy.  It  does make SB 208 much more critical though.  You will want to have the plane checked for corrosion very closely by someone who knows where to look.  Some of the windows may have leaked and if the plane still has the original fiberglass insulation that traps moisture, then the steel cage will probably be rusted, but this is pretty easy to check by removing the interrior panels.

[Cris]

To me it would make zero differance as the current owner really may only know about where it lived while he owned it. The age of the A/C may have the most bearing as it would have had time to have an issue like SB 208 which would apply to A/C hangered or not. Lots of airplanes fly in the rain. Also did it have Corrosion X applied if it was near the coasts? I've seen A/C hangered that were literally mouse houses so it's all about the owner and their on going care. I've personally bought both and had no issues so don't pass up what otherwise looks like a good A/C. Currently mine lives outside but is completely covered with fabric- wings, tail, fuselage, rudder & elevators. How do I describe that when I go to sell not that I think anybody will really care? Just get a good pre-buy and you'll do fine.  

[John Pleisse]

The glass is always a strong indicator of condition and overall wear, care and tear when comparing a hangared AC to non hangared. It is also expensive to replace. Here's a great example of the possibilities long term hangaring can bring and in my opinion, worth the premium:

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-201/1984-MOONEY-M20J-201/1218595.htm?

 

 

 

[gregwatts]

Quote: Cris

To me it would make zero differance as the current owner really may only know about where it lived while he owned it. The age of the A/C may have the most bearing as it would have had time to have an issue like SB 208 which would apply to A/C hangered or not. Lots of airplanes fly in the rain. Also did it have Corrosion X applied if it was near the coasts? I've seen A/C hangered that were literally mouse houses so it's all about the owner and their on going care. I've personally bought both and had no issues so don't pass up what otherwise looks like a good A/C. Currently mine lives outside but is completely covered with fabric- wings, tail, fuselage, rudder & elevators. How do I describe that when I go to sell not that I think anybody will really care? Just get a good pre-buy and you'll do fine.

[PTK]

This question can be analyzed and answered as follows. Ask any appraiser and they will tell you that it is better (cheaper) to buy an aircraft equipped as close to the  way you want as possible rather than add/change things yourself. In other words let the seller absorb the depreciation and installation costs. Assuming you agree with this axiom you wouldn't want to buy an airplane and start replacing plexiglass, repainting it, doing interior etc. anymore than you'd want to have to redo the panel! In other words consider the whole airplane. Buy the "whole" airplane cared for and equipped as close as possible to the way you'd want it. How many airplanes sitting outside are totally covered? On my field none! Invariably an airplane sitting outside when not covered has wear from the elements. No matter how you sugar coat it, it's unavoidable!

[jetdriven]

Perhaps it had a cockpit cover. Perhaps it has only been outside for a year.  There are many variables.  In the beginning, the paint shows wear, then the windows and the interior.  Folks, you ain't gonna get pristine aircraft with NO excuses for average prices.  Even so, hangar queens have engines that go bad in 100 hours too.  Something has to give.  So rate it on its actual condition, and see if the price has value.  

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: N4352H

The glass is always a strong indicator of condition and overall wear, care and tear when comparing a hangared AC to non hangared. It is also expensive to replace. Here's a great example of the possibilities long term hangaring can bring and in my opinion, worth the premium:

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-201/1984-MOONEY-M20J-201/1218595.htm?

 

 

 

[jetdriven]

Just like I was referring to. People pass up the average looking, 5,000 hour, 800 SMOH planes with a gear up in their history, priced reasonably, and flown regularly to overpay for a shiny hangar queen that ends up needing an engine in a year.  

[NotarPilot]

I wouldn't pass up an great Mooney just because she was a high time aircraft.  In fact, I saw a nice 201 at All American with 7200 hours on the airframe and only 225 on the engine.  I called them and was told the owner flies this plane regularly.  It looks to be in great condition as well.  I would like to see pictures of the interior though.  I would prefer to buy a plane with higher time rather than a low time airframe.  Low time tells me the plane isn't flown much and that's not good for any machinary really.

I just wanted to get your opinions on looking at planes that aren't hangared.  I appreciate all the helpful comments.

I read somewhere that Mooney airframes have the potential to going from 20,000 to 50,000 hours with proper care.  Who knows how much truth there is to that but I would tend to believe it.  We have a helicopter where I work that has over 11,000 hours and almost 20 years old.  She's in great condition minus some minor cosmetic issues.  In fact I think everyone likes flying that one the most.  She's got the most power, the controls are smooth and worked in and she flies the smoothest.  She's also very well maintained.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-201/1978-MOONEY-M20J-201/1219111.htm?

[rbridges]

it's funny.  When I was looking at arrows, it's not uncommon for 6000+ hours b/c so many are trainers.  same goes for cessnas.  When a mooney starts hitting similar hours, people consider them very high time.

[NotarPilot]

Quote: rbridges

it's funny.  When I was looking at arrows, it's not uncommon for 6000+ hours b/c so many are trainers.  same goes for cessnas.  When a mooney starts hitting similar hours, people consider them very high time.

[jetdriven]

For economic reasons not airworthiness reasons.  Now the cirrus has an hours airframe life limit.  

[xftrplt]

Sounds like my wife. 

She's got the most power, the controls are smooth and worked in and she flies the smoothest.  She's also very well maintained.

[NotarPilot]

Quote: jetdriven

For economic reasons not airworthiness reasons.  Now the cirrus has an hours airframe life limit.  

[John Pleisse]

Quote: GeorgePerry

N4352H

That is a NICE airplane and obviously an example of one that's been taken care of over the years.  However, even If someone can look past the mid-80's brown paint and shag-a-delic interior, $109K is kind-a high, even for a starting price.  The engine needs an overhaul, as 27 years is a long time to go without one, there's no engine monitor, GAMI's, WX data link, etc...and the interior needs updating in a bad way.  VREF puts it's value around $80K.  Even with a 20% premium for its superiour timecapsule like condition, top of the market should be $95K.  After that, there's $25K for the engine OH and $8K for an interior. Putting the grand total at $128K, which isn't a bad number if you don't mind spending more after the sale.

[GeorgePerry]

Look...would I pay it? Maybe $95-100k if it shows recent autopilot work, gyro work, tight tanks and the 530 is a "W". Is it a hangar queen, just becaue it is such low time? Doubt it. To me, IMHO, this is a once every 3-4 years airplane. You just don't see one like this pop up that often. It is also held out by a reputable broker..... so out of the box, $7k is negotiable.

To stick with the thread...this is how evident hangaring can be. Stay safe George.

[mooneym20d]

My plane sat in the Danbury, CT area for over 15 yrs without moving an inch. I bought it with the cash I could hold in my pocket. I was expecting to do major frame repairs and aluminum work. I tore the plane down just short of removing the wings and had every inch examined for corrosion and rust. There was a very small amount on the steel attach point for the tail cone. The rust was removed with a wire brush, zinc chromated and painted. Even the tanks were clean. The engine was pickled with MMO. After a tear down, I realized that all this tearing down was for piece of mind because the engine looked as though it had 100 hrs on it. In fact, it did. I had to replace the wheels and sent the engine mount out for the gussets. That was it. The control tubes looked as though they had just come from the factory and the heim bearings were spotless. A few bolts and nuts were replaced. I had the plane painted and put leather on the seats and I was on my way. 

In short, what I thought was going to be a $30,000 restoration turned out to be a diamond in the rough. Yep, 15 yrs in the North East elements. I got lucky.

[wishboneash]

Quote: NotarPilot

I wouldn't pass up an great Mooney just because she was a high time aircraft.  In fact, I saw a nice 201 at All American with 7200 hours on the airframe and only 225 on the engine.  I called them and was told the owner flies this plane regularly.  It looks to be in great condition as well.  I would like to see pictures of the interior though.  I would prefer to buy a plane with higher time rather than a low time airframe.  Low time tells me the plane isn't flown much and that's not good for any machinary really.

I just wanted to get your opinions on looking at planes that aren't hangared.  I appreciate all the helpful comments.

I read somewhere that Mooney airframes have the potential to going from 20,000 to 50,000 hours with proper care.  Who knows how much truth there is to that but I would tend to believe it.  We have a helicopter where I work that has over 11,000 hours and almost 20 years old.  She's in great condition minus some minor cosmetic issues.  In fact I think everyone likes flying that one the most.  She's got the most power, the controls are smooth and worked in and she flies the smoothest.  She's also very well maintained.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-201/1978-MOONEY-M20J-201/1219111.htm?