G3X Upgrade with EIS or another route.

[Dieselsnplanes]

I know from reading other posts that the G3X has been discussed before, however most has been related to the upgrade itself and not in comparison to another route. At this point my F model has steam gauge 6 pack with a GL103, GTN750, no engine monitor and no ADSB weather or traffic integrated into the 750. Wing leveler only.

I bought it in 2019 as it was cheaper than the flying I'd been doing in the previous club plane. I am flying about 180hrs a year. I'm going through my ratings and currently on commercial, then off for MEI or CFI depending on my mood after commercial, HA!

My current issue is the engine is from 2003 with about 1050hrs on it and I'm running the 1966 factory engine gauges that I believe are less than accurate. I own a diesel repair shop so I see engine failures on a daily basis, on long XC I get uneasy not being able to see what is going on accurately in my old engine. I'm well aware GA engines have a good history but when you see engine failures for 15 years it's a feeling that's hard to shake with no data to look at.

The IFR flying I've been doing is less than I'd like but I live in Florida so when we have IFR weather its usually not very good and the vacuum gauges have gotten stuck shortly in moderate turbulence and have already had them "repaired" with no improvement.  

Now I've given you a long explanation on what I'm doing with it, I'm stuck between just doing a JPI monitor and a pair of G5s or adding the G3X with engine monitoring to get everything in one unit, using the vacuum attitude as a backup for now and keeping the wing leveler since their is no issue with it and works perfect now. Both options are a hefty price point so I wanted some feed back on which route, if anyone has done in my situation. Possibly a different unit to look at. The G3X seems to give me everything in one unit I currently need The cost of the upgrades plus training is why I don't just outfit the whole plane with the cool avionics and add an auto pilot. An ADSB transponder is in the future but it came with the wing beacon when I bought it. 

I don't plan on getting rid of this plane as it does everything I need it to do and my idea was to use it to commute once I land a spot being able to fly for an outfit. Engine and Avionics are the only thing it will need anything on as the rest is perfect. Sun N Fun is this week so I'll be playing with all the units you guys recommend but I don't want information overload nor just the sales pitch from the avionics guys while I'm at the show. I do like everything Garmin as the integration is easy and I'm used to the platform in the marine industry.   

Thanks you in advance! Jake

[toto]

A couple of random thoughts:

* Having a standalone engine monitor means that if your G3X display craps out, you don't lose primary engine instrumentation 

* The Garmin EIS is afaik unique in that you can display all of the engine instruments on your iPad using Garmin Pilot, so if the screen crapped out you could potentially limp somewhere VFR using GP for instrumentation

(Not commenting on the legality of #2 as a primary alternative, just pointing it out as a differentiating factor.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

It might come down to how much panel space you have.

[Ragsf15e]

Fitting 2 G5s and a jpi900 in existing instrument holes may require much less panel modification than adding a 10” g3x which is what you need for eis.  Also, I’d hate to have a pretty new g3x with no adsb and keep my vacuum adi as backup. The G5s won’t need the vacuum adi.  Keep your adsb on an iPad.

Still you’ll be looking at $20k plus.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Ragsf15e

[PT20J]

The G3X display is sharper than the G5. The G5s and JPI will be much less expensive installed. 

Skip,
 

[carusoam]

JPI is classic... does everything you ever wanted in an engine monitor.... kind of old tech lately.

Garmin EIS is relatively new... a handful have been installed and used around here... its ability to gather and store data is impressive!

 

An engine monitor to be useful, needs to be on the front page while flying...  requiring a screen or part of a screen to do this...

 

To store proper run-up data... a data point every second would be good...

PP thoughts only,not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Dieselsnplanes]

I'm looking at $22k for the JPI and G5s. $25K for the G3X so a few thousand bucks is marginal with this level of spending for me. Of course I want to do the 10.6 display not the 7".

[Tim Jodice]

1 hour ago, toto said:

A couple of random thoughts:

* Having a standalone engine monitor means that if your G3X display craps out, you don't lose primary engine instrumentation 

* The Garmin EIS is afaik unique in that you can display all of the engine instruments on your iPad using Garmin Pilot, so if the screen crapped out you could potentially limp somewhere VFR using GP for instrumentation

(Not commenting on the legality of #2 as a primary alternative, just pointing it out as a differentiating factor.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is true. I flew mine for the first time yesterday. I plan to do a write up after some flying. 

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, Dieselsnplanes said:

I'm looking at $22k for the JPI and G5s. $25K for the G3X so a few thousand bucks is marginal with this level of spending for me. Of course I want to do the 10.6 display not the 7".

If it’s that close for the 10”g3x including new panel or modified panel, I’d do the g3x.

You need the 10” if you want the eis displayed with your pfd.  If you do the 7”, you’ll need 2 of them to do pfd and eis.

[Davidv]

I opted for the 10” G3X plus the 7” MFD that I primarily use for the engine instruments.  This was cheaper than adding a standalone JPI and I get to use the MFD for more than just engine instruments.  It’s also nice having all of the data parameters the G3X records. I’m not sure what the JPI records but the G3X does almost every flight parameter in addition to all the engine instrumentation.

[ArtVandelay]

I opted for the 10” G3X plus the 7” MFD that I primarily use for the engine instruments.  This was cheaper than adding a standalone JPI and I get to use the MFD for more than just engine instruments.  It’s also nice having all of the data parameters the G3X records. I’m not sure what the JPI records but the G3X does almost every flight parameter in addition to all the engine instrumentation.

Were you able to fit both on the left side of the radio stacks?

JPI records everything it knows about, including GPS data if configured.

[Davidv]

No, I had to put it on the right but with the important instruments also on the PFD it works for me to have the detailed stuff on the right.

[PJClark]

Example with JPI EDM 900

[Dieselsnplanes]

1 minute ago, PJClark said:

Example with JPI EDM 900

Did you add both at the same time?

[PJClark]

Yes everything was done in a single go.  Everything old/original is gone and the only thing still powered by vacuum are the speed brakes.

[Dieselsnplanes]

Just now, PJClark said:

Yes everything was done in a single go.  Everything old/original is gone and the only thing still powered by vacuum are the speed brakes.

Can you share your reason you didn't go with the EIS system with the G3X and went with the JPI?

[PJClark]

Just now, Dieselsnplanes said:

Can you share your reason you didn't go with the EIS system with the G3X and went with the JPI?

Sure. Before I bought the airplane in May 2019 I'd gotten checked out in the SR22 with the Avidyne system (hoping renting would scratch the itch...didn't).  On that system if I wanted to see all the engine info it was a knob twist a few clicks on the MFD to get the Engine Page.  there was no way to see all the engine info at once AND have the Map displayed.

I think EIS is still that way, which may be illustrated by @Davidv's panel pic above. He put in a 7" G3x to the right and he has it on the Engine page.  If he did NOT have the 7", he's have to use the PFD side of his 10.6", and a twist of the large right knob, to display that page instead of the map.

Now, here's the rub:  At the TIME in 2019, a 7" G3X could not be used as the backup for a 10.6" G3X.  IF it had been able to, and if I had thus NOT needed a G5 backup, the price would have been about even and I'd have gone with a 10.6/7" dual screen with G3x's instead of the EDM900.  But at the time it could not.  I think it now CAN be, and it would be a push in cost.

Bottom line: I want to always have the engine data present in all its glory, best route there for me at the time was EDM 900.

[Tim Jodice]

looks out of place with all the old avionics.  

[Dieselsnplanes]

20 minutes ago, PJClark said:

Sure. Before I bought the airplane in May 2019 I'd gotten checked out in the SR22 with the Avidyne system (hoping renting would scratch the itch...didn't).  On that system if I wanted to see all the engine info it was a knob twist a few clicks on the MFD to get the Engine Page.  there was no way to see all the engine info at once AND have the Map displayed.

I think EIS is still that way, which may be illustrated by @Davidv's panel pic above. He put in a 7" G3x to the right and he has it on the Engine page.  If he did NOT have the 7", he's have to use the PFD side of his 10.6", and a twist of the large right knob, to display that page instead of the map.

Now, here's the rub:  At the TIME in 2019, a 7" G3X could not be used as the backup for a 10.6" G3X.  IF it had been able to, and if I had thus NOT needed a G5 backup, the price would have been about even and I'd have gone with a 10.6/7" dual screen with G3x's instead of the EDM900.  But at the time it could not.  I think it now CAN be, and it would be a push in cost.

Bottom line: I want to always have the engine data present in all its glory, best route there for me at the time was EDM 900.

Thanks PJ,

I already have a GTN750 so I have a 7" map. I'm under the impression from the little info Garmin has that if you had a engine parameter issue it will alert you which i then can pull it up in better view on the right am I correct? This is why I wanted to play with the unit first and I'm already leaning towards it would be a better route than a JPI and two G5s in the long run. 

[Dieselsnplanes]

I'm also under the impression I can run a single 10.6 unit for a MFD/PFD and engine information and remove the factory engine gauges correct?

[toto]

10 minutes ago, Dieselsnplanes said:

I'm also under the impression I can run a single 10.6 unit for a MFD/PFD and engine information and remove the factory engine gauges correct?

Yes.

[gsxrpilot]

I'd vote for @PJClark's panel every day. 

Maybe it's more important with our turbo engines, but I want to see ALL engine parameters, at ALL times, in front of me on the left side. I'm hoping to see a G3X with EIS flying in a turbo Mooney soon. But Garmin's approach of showing just the important stuff isn't enough for me. 

My 252 Encore is finally back home in Denver tonight and with the flight from Austin to Denver today, the PFD/MFD could have been on the right side. I never used them. But was glued to the engine monitor for the whole flight. Of course I'm breaking in a fresh overhauled engine. And this was the first long flight. 

But even under normal circumstances. 98% of the time, the autopilot flies the plane and I'm the Flight Engineer monitoring and continually tuning the engine.

[PJClark]

I guess I forgot the punch line in the "why" post.  If you still have to have a G5 backup, EIS plus the added 7" G3X was going to be about $3500 more than the EDM 900.

[MIm20c]

14 hours ago, PJClark said:

Now, here's the rub:  At the TIME in 2019, a 7" G3X could not be used as the backup for a 10.6" G3X.  IF it had been able to, and if I had thus NOT needed a G5 backup, the price would have been about even and I'd have gone with a 10.6/7" dual screen with G3x's instead of the EDM900.  But at the time it could not.  I think it now CAN be, and it would be a push in cost.

Did they change something?  Legal to install dual g3x system without a backup for ifr flight?

[MIm20c]

21 hours ago, Dieselsnplanes said:

I'm looking at $22k for the JPI and G5s. $25K for the G3X so a few thousand bucks is marginal with this level of spending for me. Of course I want to do the 10.6 display not the 7".

It’s hard to comment on price because there could be many factors involved. However, the G5’s/JPI price looks high to me. You might want to price out the components and see how much they’re changing for labor.