S.C. Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 I have a 1965 M20C. I’m torn and hoping for some advice from the quorum. I’m having some battery issues and believe it is time to buy a new battery. I’ve researched and know that there are tow types of STC approved batteries. Weights are similar, voltage is similar, and all things considered, there is a very narrow margin between the lead acid or the electrolyte type of battery. I’m looking for recommendations from more experienced pilots on which is better and why. Thanks in advance, I’m looking forward to your responses. Quote
Niko182 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, S.C. said: I have a 1965 M20C. I’m torn and hoping for some advice from the quorum. I’m having some battery issues and believe it is time to buy a new battery. I’ve researched and know that there are tow types of STC approved batteries. Weights are similar, voltage is similar, and all things considered, there is a very narrow margin between the lead acid or the electrolyte type of battery. I’m looking for recommendations from more experienced pilots on which is better and why. Thanks in advance, I’m looking forward to your responses. There are some newer style lithium batterues approved for use in 12v systems. I dont know if they're available for tge mooney, however that probably where id look first. Quote
jaylw314 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 I think you're asking people to compare wet-cell lead-acid batteries vs sealed lead-acid batteries? Concorde makes the sealed lead-acid battery that @Andy95W mentioned. Gill makes the older wet-cell lead-acid battery, but also does make a newer sealed lead-acid battery. The consensus seems to be the wet-cell Gill's were terrible and didn't last long, while most people swear by the Concorde batteries. There are a couple people who've used the newer Gill sealed lead-acid battery and initial reports are positive. Wet-cell batteries are inferior in almost every way, but moderately cheaper: less cold resistance higher self-discharge leaks electrolyte requires adding water for maintenance shorter life can't be inverted The only advantages I can think of: a little cheaper charging is more idiot-proof Longer shelf life before use I've not heard of any STC's for lithium batteries in Mooneys. 1 Quote
Brian E. Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Andy95W said: Concorde RG-35AXC or the GILL SEALED BATTERY 7035-28. I've used both and both are good. Jury is still out on the new style Gill's but I'm still satisfied in the first year of Gill use. Edited March 15, 2021 by Brian E. 1 Quote
Jim Peace Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 Don"t waste anymore brain cells on this....get the concord....be done and don"t have to think about it for another 5-7 years.... Mine is over 5 years old now I think....no battery tender ever and sometimes go 2 plus weeks without flying.... 4 Quote
47U Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 12 hours ago, jaylw314 said: Wet-cell batteries are inferior in almost every way, but moderately cheaper: less cold resistance higher self-discharge leaks electrolyte requires adding water for maintenance shorter life can't be inverted The savings of purchasing flooded battery vs. sealed may well be offset by having to buy and pay mx to replace the bottom tray of the battery box. (RTV is NOT a proper repair!) I think the part was just under .2 amu 10 years ago, but Dan threw in a handful of rivets for free. GO DAN! 2 Quote
Hank Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 42 minutes ago, 47U said: The savings of purchasing flooded battery vs. sealed may well be offset by having to buy and pay mx to replace the bottom tray of the battery box. (RTV is NOT a proper repair!) I think the part was just under .2 amu 10 years ago, but Dan threw in a handful of rivets for free. GO DAN! Last I heard, if the dripping gets out of hand and you need a new battery box, they're now > 2AMU. I really like my Concord RG-35AXC. Always starts! First one went 7 years, #2 was installed in Sept '16. 4 Quote
RobertGary1 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Hank said: Last I heard, if the dripping gets out of hand and you need a new battery box, they're now > 2AMU. I really like my Concord RG-35AXC. Always starts! First one went 7 years, #2 was installed in Sept '16. It shouldn't be possible. Each year the box is inspected and any corrosion is sanded off and new battery box paint is put on. I always keep battery box paint around. 1 Quote
Hank Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 34 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said: It shouldn't be possible. Each year the box is inspected and any corrosion is sanded off and new battery box paint is put on. I always keep battery box paint around. The previous owner replaced his / my battery box. A year later, when the Gill died, I went Concord. That was in Fall 2008. Zero battery box maintenance required since then. Quote
RobertGary1 Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Hank said: The previous owner replaced his / my battery box. A year later, when the Gill died, I went Concord. That was in Fall 2008. Zero battery box maintenance required since then. As long as its getting inspected each year you should be fine. -Robert Quote
carusoam Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 Did I ever mention my love for Gill batteries... or Champion spark plugs... Let me opine... If you fly in the FLs... check the altitude rating for the battery... they are all vented to some extent... see if there are any limitations... If you still use a sticks and stones and springs voltage controller... Work on getting a modern one... it is much nicer on the whatever battery you choose... Check the weight of the new battery to make sure you don’t have to run a new WnB... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Two Concorde gel cells replaced my old Gill batteries... Both brands are covered as replacements for the O... We May eve have a half dozen users of Gill batteries around here... you won’t be alone... Best regards, -a- Quote
MBDiagMan Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 I’ve been through it with batteries and the only thing I will buy is a Concorde Sealed. That said, the lithium batteries are being introduced and improved all the time. Their time may have come. Quote
StevenL757 Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 On 3/15/2021 at 12:40 AM, S.C. said: I have a 1965 M20C. I’m torn and hoping for some advice from the quorum. I’m having some battery issues and believe it is time to buy a new battery. I’ve researched and know that there are tow types of STC approved batteries. Weights are similar, voltage is similar, and all things considered, there is a very narrow margin between the lead acid or the electrolyte type of battery. I’m looking for recommendations from more experienced pilots on which is better and why. Thanks in advance, I’m looking forward to your responses. Concorde. Don't muck around with anything else. Quote
aviatoreb Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 My Concord batteries (a pair of 35mAmp jobs) lasted 12 years. When they became clearly tired last summer. I replaced them with the same. Quote
PT20J Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 On 3/14/2021 at 9:40 PM, S.C. said: I have a 1965 M20C. I’m torn and hoping for some advice from the quorum. I’m having some battery issues and believe it is time to buy a new battery. I’ve researched and know that there are tow types of STC approved batteries. Weights are similar, voltage is similar, and all things considered, there is a very narrow margin between the lead acid or the electrolyte type of battery. I’m looking for recommendations from more experienced pilots on which is better and why. Thanks in advance, I’m looking forward to your responses. Batteries are like tires and everyone had their favorite and long remembers a bad experience. Gill has a good reputation for flooded cell batteries but didn’t do so well with its original sealed (AGM) batteries. Concorde has a good reputation for the AGMs and they get premium pricing. Gill’s newer AGM may be as good as the Concorde and less expensive. Here are a couple of articles on batteries: https://resources.savvyaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/articles_eaa/EAA_2011-06_about-batteries.pdf https://resources.savvyaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/articles_eaa/EAA_2011-07_battery-tlc.pdf Batteries are sensitive to how they are used, so take other’s claims of longevity with a heavy dose of salt. For a VFR only airplane, it may be OK to replace the battery only when it starts to crank slowly, but for a mostly electric IFR airplane, you really should do an annual capacity test, and the battery will fail that long before you notice any other indication. Skip Quote
A64Pilot Posted March 17, 2021 Report Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) Gill wet cell are junk, you’ll hate them when one leaks, they eventually will. ‘I had one leak onto my brand new fabric covered airplane, I’ll never have another Gill. ‘The Concorde battery is manufactured in the US by the Godfrey family,they honestly have one goal and that’s to manufacture the best battery possible, and of course that does cost more, but you get what you pay for. Gill prett much gives away batteries to OEM manufacturers, that way they advertise they are the OEM battery, and many people only want the battery that Beechcraft put in their Bonanza or Cirrus and they sell a lot of batteries from that, but they are cheap junk. LifePo4 will be the next greatest thing, half the energy density of Li-Po but they don’t burn, but they aren’t here yet I don’t think, and the aircraft battery market is so small, and getting a PMA and TSO is so egregious, it may not happen. Several put Odyssey batteries in aircraft with a field approval, but there just is no good reason to go through that when a perfectly fine Concorde exists. Ref an IFR airplane and the reserve capacity of a battery as thats what’s going to get you down when the alternator quits. ‘ALL batteries when new are required to have the reserve capacity checked before installation. except a Concorde, Concorde did a cap check prior to shipping, and ALL batteries are required to have a capacity check yearly during the annual, but it’s almost never done. ‘However if you do fly IFR regularity, you may want to insist on the yearly capacity check. Concorde’s are vented, but they can’t leak Edited March 17, 2021 by A64Pilot Quote
jaylw314 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Posted March 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: Gill wet cell are junk, you’ll hate them when one leaks, they eventually will. ‘I had one leak onto my brand new fabric covered airplane, I’ll never have another Gill. ‘The Concorde battery is manufactured in the US by the Godfrey family,they honestly have one goal and that’s to manufacture the best battery possible, and of course that does cost more, but you get what you pay for. Gill prett much gives away batteries to OEM manufacturers, that way they advertise they are the OEM battery, and many people only want the battery that Beechcraft put in their Bonanza or Cirrus and they sell a lot of batteries from that, but they are cheap junk. LifePo4 will be the next greatest thing, half the energy density of Li-Po but they don’t burn, but they aren’t here yet I don’t think, and the aircraft battery market is so small, and getting a PMA and TSO is so egregious, it may not happen. Several put Odyssey batteries in aircraft with a field approval, but there just is no good reason to go through that when a perfectly fine Concorde exists. Ref an IFR airplane and the reserve capacity of a battery as thats what’s going to get you down when the alternator quits. ‘ALL batteries when new are required to have the reserve capacity checked before installation. except a Concorde, Concorde did a cap check prior to shipping, and ALL batteries are required to have a capacity check yearly during the annual, but it’s almost never done. ‘However if you do fly IFR regularity, you may want to insist on the yearly capacity check. Concorde’s are vented, but they can’t leak Sheesh, that's awful about the brand new plane, I hope it was recoverable! LiFePO4 is a very strange chemistry, and needs smart chargers to be able to charge them well. IIRC, the charging voltage doesn't reflect the state of charge like normal lithium batteries, so you need a charge totalizer to know when to turn off the charging to keep from overcharging it. Or something like that Quote
A64Pilot Posted March 17, 2021 Report Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, jaylw314 said: Sheesh, that's awful about the brand new plane, I hope it was recoverable! LiFePO4 is a very strange chemistry, and needs smart chargers to be able to charge them well. IIRC, the charging voltage doesn't reflect the state of charge like normal lithium batteries, so you need a charge totalizer to know when to turn off the charging to keep from overcharging it. Or something like that Was actually new fabric on my Maule which wasn’t new, the battery vented overboard so all it did was bleach out the paint, none got on the interior. Lifepo4’s and all lithium batteries do have special charging “needs” they can’t be floated and charging has to be terminated when they are fully charged etc. I just came off living aboard a cruising boat for three years, Lithium has a great many advantages there, but is very problematic, for instance when they are full they have to be disconnected from the alternator, but doing so can or will blow the alternator. Plus the cells have to be balanced although many argue they don’t. Most of this can be handled with onboard electronics in the battery if so equipped, but by the time we stopped cruising due to Covid, a true drop in Lithium didn’t exist, maybe now. ‘Issue is that yes lead acid is so yesterday, the charge profile and voltage stability etc of lithium and weight and power density is far superior, but lead acid is a way mature technology and is known. I guess it’s sort of the same reasons we still have Magneto’s. On the boat I had a 660AH bank of Lifeline batteries, they are made by Concorde battery and are pretty much identical to the Concorde aircraft battery. I had them as they are the best deep cycle lead acid battery there is, and yes they cost more Edited March 17, 2021 by A64Pilot 2 Quote
carusoam Posted March 17, 2021 Report Posted March 17, 2021 A64, Do you have a crew to operate all that boat? Best regards, -a- Quote
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