Propeller for M20C

[flyer7324]

I'm in the process of ordering accessories for my 62 M20C. The factory rebuilt engine has been ordered. I have a 2 blade Hartzell prop with the B hub now which was overhauled in 2017. I was thinking of either ordering the Hartzell Scimitar 2 blade or the Macauley C424 three blade. 

If any list members have any experiences with either on their C models I'd really appreciate hearing about them.

Thanks.....

[Andy95W]

I’d keep the Hartzell 2 -blade with the B hub.

[hammdo]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

I’d keep the Hartzell 2 -blade with the B hub.

Ditto...

-Don

[pirate]

When I overhauled my engine I did the three blade including power flow and never looked back......

I did it for better climb performance on hot days and it sure helped a lot , really awesome on cold days. 

Some say you will lose speed, I have not noticed any speed reduction 

Lastly it really looks cool !!!!
 

 

 

 

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

I’d keep the Hartzell 2 -blade with the B hub.

I agree! It’s a great performing prop. 

[Hank]

My C has the 3-blade Hartzell and regular exhaust. I have no complaints, great climb and 147-148 KTAS at 7500 and up. 

[47U]

All valid comments above.  

If you ever find yourself wishing you had speed brakes, the three-blade has an advantage over the two-blade.  Then again, some say the three-blade has resonance on the 4-cylinder.  Installation of a landing light lens cover (by the previous owner, 25 years ago) solved an elusive vibration issue on my C model.  I think it runs like a sewing machine.

[LantisPDX]

23 minutes ago, 47U said:

All valid comments above.  

If you ever find yourself wishing you had speed brakes, the three-blade has an advantage over the two-blade.  Then again, some say the three-blade has resonance on the 4-cylinder.  Installation of a landing light lens cover (by the previous owner, 25 years ago) solved an elusive vibration issue on my C model.  I think it runs like a sewing machine.

I agree with 47U. The three blade props make a great speed brake.
My F model came with the three blade Hartzell so I can’t speak to the McCauley, but I also appreciate that the three blade got rid of the standard RPM restrictions and replaced it with a more manageable one at 15” and below.

[Tim Jodice]

Keep what you have. I dont remember who but someone on here said they were disappointed in the swept 2 blade hartzell. 

https://hartzellprop.com/products/top-prop/mooney/m20a-g-m20j-2-blade/

Look at the bottom in notes. It's documented that it looses a little in the take off roll compared to the one you have. 

Sexy as hell but once it is spinning i think you will be happier with what you have.

[carusoam]

Does MT have a two blade for the M20C?

1) Two blade if cruise speed is your preference...

2) Three blade if T/O distance and climb rate are your thing...

3) Matching even blades with four cylinders is a good idea... a harmonics thing...

4) Composites are interesting...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Rjfanjet]

I have the 3 blade, love it! But I'm based in SLC and prefer the increased climb performance. Installing the powerflow exhaust tomorrow.

[Tim Jodice]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Does MT have a two blade for the M20C?

1) Two blade if cruise speed is your preference...

2) Three blade if T/O distance and climb rate are your thing...

3) Matching even blades with four cylinders is a good idea... a harmonics thing...

4) Composites are interesting...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

MT doesn't make a propeller for a C model. 

[Jakes Simmons]

I vote for keeping the B hub. I had the three blade, balanced out great but still had an annoying vibration. I now own the Hartzell scimitar two blade. Looks cool but still has not been nearly as smooth as that original Hartzell of the early C’s.

[flyer7324]

My thought is to keep what I have for now. It's working great and was overhauled in May 2017. I got a quote from Hartzell today and the two blade came in north of 11k but they were willing to give me a 'generous' credit of 500 bucks for my existing prop which I could sell for probably 4-5k at least. So I'm staying the course for now.

Thanks for all the great input.

[chriscalandro]

47 minutes ago, flyer7324 said:

My thought is to keep what I have for now. It's working great and was overhauled in May 2017. I got a quote from Hartzell today and the two blade came in north of 11k but they were willing to give me a 'generous' credit of 500 bucks for my existing prop which I could sell for probably 4-5k at least. So I'm staying the course for now.

Thanks for all the great input.

When my non B hub needed overhaul I ended up just getting the new 2 blade Hartzell.  There is little to no noticeable difference between the 2.  If you have the B hub and the prop you have now is good, keep it.

[0TreeLemur]

23 hours ago, Tim Jodice said:

Keep what you have. I dont remember who but someone on here said they were disappointed in the swept 2 blade hartzell. 

https://hartzellprop.com/products/top-prop/mooney/m20a-g-m20j-2-blade/

Look at the bottom in notes. It's documented that it looses a little in the take off roll compared to the one you have. 

Sexy as hell but once it is spinning i think you will be happier with what you have.

That was more-or-less what I wrote.  Great ramp appeal plus a new "modern" looking pointy spinner.  A bit quieter in cruise, maybe a few dB.   0 knots discernable difference in cruise speed.   I'd keep what you have unless ramp appeal has great value.  You won't find it elsewhere.

[Jim Peace]

My C had the Hartzell Scimitar 2 blade when I bought it about 6 years ago....runs great looks good to

[David Lloyd]

So, a three blade may climb a little better, but not much.  It may be a little faster...or slower.  It may look better until the engine starts.  It may be smoother or not. All things equal, it will cost more to have overhauled. It will weigh more, about 15 pounds on the nose. Want to trade for my McCauley 3 blade?

[Tcraft938]

I cannot offer great comparative information.  Prior to buying 57U I test flew several C and E models that had the B hub 2 blade or a 3 blade.  As previously said, the three blade looks like the boss, it was smooth with maybe slightly better acceleration and climb than the older 2 blade B.  No flights were above 3500' so maybe more difference happens higher up, maybe one plane had a weaker engine than the other, heavier plane or different CG, etc. all can affect climb and cruise.  One of the C models with the old 2 blade I was surprised how slow it was at 2,500' and same power setting, however, it had the original engine instruments so they were likely less accurate than the JPI830 equipped model I flew previously.  Fast forward to purchase of 57U that I only flew about 12 hrs before reman engine and scimitar prop.  First test flight (prop not dynamic balanced) I was surprised at the smoothness.  Acceleration and initial climb I would put on par with the 3 blade.  Once gear and flaps up, safe altitude I do a 120-125mph cruise climb to be kind to breaking in cylinders.  The three blade I flew had to go 10 mph slower to get the same climb rate, which likely would mean warmer CHT's.  The scimitar at altitude is definitely efficient and good speed, very smooth but perhaps slightly louder, but not 100% sure on that.  7,500' and book 75% power TAS is usually between 173-176 mph.  Interestingly, 2400 rpm v 2500 is only about 1-2 mph penalty but less fuel burn, less noise, so that's what I use.  Also when later dynamically balanced 2400 was the setting they used and the commented it was extremely close to perfect, "this didn't really need to be balanced".

My comparison may not be fair, since new engine mounts, reman engine, new prop is being compared to engines with 1000 to 1500 hrs on them of various types and age of props.  On the ramp I seem to get more curious inquiry from bystanders about the unique shape of the scimitar prop than others with three blade.   57U doesn't really like to descend.  You can descend or you can slow down, but it will laugh at you if you try to do both and not shock cool the engine.  I just attribute that to being a Mooney and adjust my flying style accordingly.  Maybe the three blade helps in this realm?  I figure that's why Mr. Mooney put that nice thing called rudder on, you know the poor man's spoiler.... it slips very well.  Also the scimitar is lighter than three blade.  I can't remember how much, but my A&P was mentioning if went the three blade route I may want to relocate the battery to not be so close to forward CG.  However, I may do that anyway some day for the flying qualities improvement and maybe another 0.5mph.  LOL

Bottom line, I don't think you will be sorry with either prop.  Like anything in aviation, you usually give up a little of something to get something else.  Just get what you're wanting and you'll be happy.  

[cliffy]

Watch the forward CG limits if you have the 3 blade and you are a more  "portly" body shape especially with someone else in the right front and no rear baggage or people. 

I moved my battery to behind the rear seat for that reason. 

[David Lloyd]

Battery in mine was moved aft when the 3 blade was added. Airplane was weighed last year and looking at the numbers, it would be out the front of the envelope if the battery was not moved unless at least one person was in the back seat.

The McCauley 3 blade and spinner added 13-15 pounds (sorry, don't remember the exact number, it was either 13 or 15) to the nose of my plane.  That also subtracts from the useful load.

[cliffy]

2 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

Battery in mine was moved aft when the 3 blade was added. Airplane was weighed last year and looking at the numbers, it would be out the front of the envelope if the battery was not moved unless at least one person was in the back seat.

You are correct The CG moves way fwd with the 3 blade

[carusoam]

The TopProp has added weight to some planes around here in the same manner...

Extra capacity batteries swapped in the back may help with the balance... 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI or mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[markgrue]

I moved my battery to the back when I got rid of the big heavy power supplies for the old mk12A nav coms and the marker beacon receiver.  That along with my spare tire and short legs puts too much weight in the first hole in the pilots seat.  I keep thinking I need the 3 inch peddle extensions to move me back a bit.

 

Mark

[Cody Stallings]

Personally I would hang on to what you already have. It’s a great prop.