Family - not interested in flying

[Fred as in Flintstone]

4 hours ago, steingar said:

Buy a one place like a Midget Mustang or an RV3 and have fun!

Thought about a 2 place. But I do have a brother and brother in law I'd totally want to fly to see a football game on a weekend (2 1/2 hour flight). And the Mooney 20c/e would not be stupid expensive nor expensive to just tool around in locally 

[Fred as in Flintstone]

Just now, Amelia said:

Maybe sign up for Angel Flight, Veterans’ Airlift, Pilots n Paws and other charity flights, tax deductible flying, experience, and unimpeachable excuse. Join some flying groups like CAP or Internet social flying groups and go to events, meet up with other pilots. If spouse won’t come, wave a cheery goodbye and have a fun story or two when you get home. 
Good luck!

That's good advice. She actually seems to have bought into the idea of being a CFI in terms of not caring about the money side of it. I'll have to look into the charity ones. 

[Fred as in Flintstone]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

That's a tough spot to be in. My wife is not interested in flying for the sake of flying and won't get in the airplane unless we have somewhere interesting to go. 

I'm super sensitive to making sure she is in the plane ONLY if it will be a good day for flying. That means no turbulence, strong crosswinds, low IFR, etc.

Secondly, I'll NEVER have her sit in the back seat. Unless she wants to. The Right seat belongs to her and no one can over ride that if she's in the plane.

Along with that, I'd never think of taking her up when I have a CFI in the plane or when doing any type of training, FR, checkout, etc. 

I try to plan opportunities to get her in the plane. But when I do, the entire flight is about her. I might suggest a departure time based on favorable weather, but I'll treat the flight as if she's the client and I'm the hired pilot. But I'll try to plan interesting places to go, short flights, sight seeing, or quick last minute trips to see her family.

Good luck with this...

 

Thanks. 

And thanks to all who are posting. 

[Yourpilotincommand]

Lol, I gotta steal this one!

[Nick Pilotte]

Try having a wife who lost her father in a plane crash....

I’m far from an expert but my first thoughts are:  Clear and open communication - What are her concerns?  Don’t interrupt her and say what you think will fix them.  Let her speak her mind.  Take each concern and do your homework on each one.  Study them and discuss any deficiencies you feel may be with your abilities with your CFI.
For concerns with small aircraft, you have to ensure you are showing her/flying in  nice looking aircraft.  Appearances are everything to the non-flyer.  Crusty weatherstripping and smelly carpet, oil stains on the floor, and fuel smells may be ok for us, but not for them.  I’m not going to lie, my wife is fond of a Citation (twin engines) and Cirrus(chute). She isn’t sold on an Ovation yet. 
For flying in different weather, you have to pick the days carefully and don’t head off to Catalina for the very first time with a nervous flier. 

Once you understand all her concerns and have trained to address things (you should NEVER say “Hmm, is that right?” out loud when in the cockpit), you can try a short flight for breakfast.  Even if it’s 15 minutes, that’s enough.  Walk through your preflight checks like weather, radio frequency ID for the destination, etc. but don’t involve her in the oil checks or updating databases.  

Hopefully she sees the benefit of an airplane as a traveling tool eventually. 

[Geoff]

Fred,

You are in a very difficult but common position.

Suggestions... (not a counselor or licensed advisor)

1.  Try to keep a healthy relationship with your spouse.

2.  Defend your right to pursue your passion...aviation (resources permitting).  A loving spouse will recognize and not be threatened by your hobby (resources permitting).

3.  Take advantage of communities like Mooneyspace to discuss/brag about perfect lazy 8's or greaser landings.  Better yet join or start a local pilot community at your home drome.

4.  Forget about 'convincing' anyone to do anything they don't want to do.

In short, you do you and let everyone else do the same.

Best of luck. 

[Mooneymite]

My wife absolutely loves flying!  Unfortunately, her idea of flying is a seat in Delta's first class cabin with an alcoholic beverage served to her.

She will ride in the Mooney rather than the car if we're going somewhere that includes grandkids.

Does your wife object to commercial flying?

Edited August 12, 2020 by Mooneymite

[flyboy0681]

While my wife doesn't love flying in the Mooney, she does it and is at ease when the air is smooth. I have a good friend who loved to fly with me up until the time that a another friend of his perished in an IFR related accident two years ago. That bummed me out because we always had a good time and fun adventures.

[aviatoreb]

53 minutes ago, Nick Pilotte said:

Try having a wife who lost her father in a plane crash....

I’m far from an expert but my first thoughts are:  Clear and open communication - What are her concerns?  Don’t interrupt her and say what you think will fix them.  Let her speak her mind.  Take each concern and do your homework on each one.  Study them and discuss any deficiencies you feel may be with your abilities with your CFI.
For concerns with small aircraft, you have to ensure you are showing her/flying in  nice looking aircraft.  Appearances are everything to the non-flyer.  Crusty weatherstripping and smelly carpet, oil stains on the floor, and fuel smells may be ok for us, but not for them.  I’m not going to lie, my wife is fond of a Citation (twin engines) and Cirrus(chute). She isn’t sold on an Ovation yet. 
For flying in different weather, you have to pick the days carefully and don’t head off to Catalina for the very first time with a nervous flier. 

Once you understand all her concerns and have trained to address things (you should NEVER say “Hmm, is that right?” out loud when in the cockpit), you can try a short flight for breakfast.  Even if it’s 15 minutes, that’s enough.  Walk through your preflight checks like weather, radio frequency ID for the destination, etc. but don’t involve her in the oil checks or updating databases.  

Hopefully she sees the benefit of an airplane as a traveling tool eventually. 

That is tough re her father.  Wow.

My wife is a tepid flyer.  She doesn't like flying and used to truly avoid it and would once in a blue moon despite her fears entirely to please me.  But over time, she would occasionally say, Erik can you take me saturday afternoon to see my mother (In Connecticut)?  When its her mission, you bet!

[PTK]

5 hours ago, Fred as in Flintstone said:

How do you deal with a non-flying family when you want to do it all the time? 

You show your understanding by accepting and respecting the fact that your wife who has different ideas and opinions is a lot more important to you than flying. She is correct, GA is inherently dangerous and is trying to make you see that she doesn’t enjoy it. You must respect her wishes and her needs. That’s what a loving husband who is committed to his bride and his marriage does. 
Flying must go. Sorry!

[Geoff]

7 minutes ago, PTK said:

You show your understanding by accepting and respecting the fact that your wife who has different ideas and opinions is a lot more important to you than flying. She is correct, GA is inherently dangerous and is trying to make you see that she doesn’t enjoy it. You must respect her wishes and her needs. That’s what a loving husband who is committed to his bride and his marriage does. 
Flying must go. Sorry!

I didn't read that the OP's spouse is demanding he quit aviation (yet) just does not want to participate, so I hope this course is premature and there is room for compromise.

[Browncbr1]

Go get your IR and get comfortable flying in all kinds of weather.   Don’t push her and don’t talk much about flying other than what you’re doing.   The cool head confidence you emit is proportional to her comfort level.    being stressed before a flight because of weather Is going to stress her out.    Give it a couple years to become normal....  if still no luck, go get an rv8

my wife was also nervous in the beginning.   Rightly so..   I was way way green and I knew it, so I preemptively suggested to give me more time gaining experience before bringing her and kids along.  First trip was on a perfect day 25 miles away.   Start slow.   Way slow.   It sounds like the damage of starting too soon is already done, so it would probably take even more time to change perceptions...

Edited August 12, 2020 by Browncbr1

[Nick Pilotte]

It took 25 years for my wife to let me follow my dream.  I grew up in small GA but her dad died when we were in High School. For my 40th birthday I started flight lessons.  It took a lot of patience for me get to where I am and she’s still reluctant (I can’t blame her). 

[squeaky.stow]

Here is another thing that worked for me. What are your wife’s passions? Can you figure out a way to fit your hobby with hers?

For example, my wife likes cycling. So we bought a couple of good folding bikes that fit in the back and now she picks places she would like to visit and my job is to get us there. 
If her concern is the safety of old GA airplanes, and knowing full well that saying this will bring the wrath of Mooneyspace down apron me, you may wish to consider a Cirrus. The people at Cirrus figured out a long time ago that it is the non-flying spouses that they need to market their airplanes to. So they built something that looks and feels like a new SUV inside and they market the heck out of all of the safety features, especially the parachute. Is it really any safer than a Mooney?  Not to most of us pilots, but that doesn’t really matter if your spouse won’t get in it. Cirrus also has some great programs for flying spouses to give them even more confidence, training them basic emergency procedures like how to use the radio and how to deploy the CAPS if hubby keels over in flight. 
And before all you MS Cirrus haters start flaming me, I am NOT saying a Cirrus is a better airplane than a Mooney. I am saying that it is better marketed airplane than a Mooney. 
OK. Flame away.
 

[MooneyMitch]

Education can be the key to success here.  Many times things we’re afraid of is because we don’t understand them. Fear of the unknown. Once we learn and understand, the fear goes away.

Possibly encouragement for her to learn to fly along with you.  Get her educated if possible.  

Wishing you the very best with this. 

 

[carusoam]

So I asked my wife about a few topics brought up above...
 

1) How do you like flying...  Flying is Ok...

2) When do you like to go flying...  Weather is good, distance is far away...

3) Going to new home...  (Find that hangar home thread)

4) Going nice places... Disney world, beach, Chicago, cut the drive from 5hrs to a flight of 1.5hrs to go see her MIL... Pop pop’s beach house... (actual family experiences)

5) wear casual clothing... Have to climb over a wing...

6) Always sit up front...

7) Don’t eat... no big meals...

8) How do you feel about blowing chow in a ziploc bag?  My kids are proud of their achievements... Wife, not so much... Mooneys can fly above the bumps... it takes skill to not get ill transitioning from cruise to landing in the bumps...

9) Do you always do everything together?... KOSH is not very exciting for people with little interest in machinery... formation flying with the other Mooney pilots is way cool...

10) Introduce her to MSers...  at a Mooney fly-in... be amazed how easily the non-flying spouse interacts with all the other people... 
 

11) Work on your memory skills... introducing your wife to all your friends requires recall of some interesting names... A single person may have a real name like Mike... his friends haze him with the name stinky pants... he is known around here as 201er... and he has a call sign as well something like birdman because he works with birds...

 

 

So...

I have always been surprised by what my family members are interested in this year... It changes by the day...

We have been a flying family starting in the 90s...

My wife’s first flight was brief... she pointed out the only other airplane in the sky...  he was in the traffic pattern... a mile away... and still wasn’t happy that guy exists.... was it a memorable flight?
 

My kids don’t remember their first flight... it came too soon...

The smartest thing we ever did... set my wife up with a right seat ready class...  learn enough about our airplane to remove the mystery...  I was transition training... she was right seat ready training...

Things that helped... a newer M20R in a hangar is better than the oldest crustiest M20C That was left outdoors...  nobody likes it when you go through strange start-up procedures that risk cowl fires on super cold days....  
 

You can always do things to ease their fear... I got a 98% on my instrument written test... a useless piece of paper... but it shows the effort  I put in for her to fly in the clouds safely...  

Open discussion about what works and what doesn’t work.... work on the things that need work... forgive the things that don’t change fast enough...

I met my wife while we were in school together... She didn’t know about my plans to fly for another decade...

If you want it... there is a way to make it happen... find the way... Keep doing it... 

There are things that are required to be a safe pilot... behind the scenes, studying accident reports, is better to keep behind the scenes...(for some)... kind of like watching murder mysteries... your wife is going to think you are nuts and planning something devious if you keep doing this...

Enjoy the process... it gets better every year...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI, or therapist...

I wonder what a therapist would think... let’s ask @mooneygirl she might know one... she has been in a Mooney flying family for generations... 

Mooney empowerment...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[PTK]

What I’m hearing here is disturbing frankly. A lot of advice on trying to change his wife’s mind. What about changing his mind? What are his prioritIes? Flying around or respecting his wife’s very reasonable fear and apprehension? She is clearly scared of this activity. Where does respecting your wife’s sensitivities and accepting her very valid concerns enter into the discussion?  Do they make any difference? She is being reasonable and has legitimate concerns. This is not golfing or fishing! This is flying! And this is your wife, not an insignificant acquaintance. Disregarding and trivializing her feelings and opinions and trying to convince her to accept something she clearly fears, is very selfish!

[TNIndy]

We have a 6.5 hour driving commute between where we live now and our family farm and my wife hates flying. We had a terrible experience  in a Turbo Prop Commuter over Texas once where the turbulence was so bad that the flight attendant went airborne, landed on the seat back, breaking her ribs. Then the pilot made an emergency landing with an initial rapid decent. My wife flew home after that and didn't set foot on another plane for several years. I ended up getting my license without her even knowing. The one thing that peaked her interest was watching youtube videos about Angel Flights and vacations to remote places to fish, ride horses, etc. I would watch a video every now and then while she was in the room. It just takes time and there's not much you can do unless she develops an interest on her own. 

[MooneyMitch]

At the opposite end of the spectrum..........................I attended a 99's meeting many years ago.  I was dead quite, just observing.

At the end of the meeting, the chapter president said to all, girls, you know our biggest challenge is how do we get our husbands interested in flying?  How do remove the fear of flying they have?  How do we get them out to the airport and into the airplane?

With those questions, I started to laugh out loud.  What is so funny, as they all looked at me. I replied that I'd never considered those issues from a female pilot point of view!  They laughed.

[squeaky.stow]

So I just asked my wife if it was disrespectful or unreasonable of me to try to reach a compromise on flying with me. As far as she is concerned, no. If I had simply given up the first time she expressed her fears, we would not have our Mooney and I would probably be nursing some resentment. That’s not healthy for a marriage either.

She also points out that the OP may get nowhere with his attempts and some people will never get in a little airplane no mater what. Deciding if and when to drop the whole thing is up to the OP and his spouse. He asked us for advice and he is getting lots of it. I think it is up to @Fred as in Flintstone to decide what to do with it.

[FloridaMan]

Don’t put up with that. Fly anyway and if you need someone to fly with you, there are plenty of women half your age that will fly with you. 

[Schllc]

Mine was a pretty reluctant flier in the beginning. 
made statements like “I won’t fly with you for two years”.

i didn’t get upset or argue, I just flew and trained. 
then her dad got sick, and we were back and forth five six times a month on what would have been a 15 hour drive or a 4 hour flight. 
she bit her lip and “tolerated” until the plane went to service and she had to fly commercial...

cant say she loves flying now, but she appreciates the freedom, convenience and expedience. 
It works. You find a middle.  She doesn’t have to fly anywhere if she doesn’t want to, it’ll come. 

[donkaye, MCFI]

8 hours ago, Fred as in Flintstone said:

So....

First post here. A little background. Mid 50's. Always dreamed of flying, finally took the plunge three years ago. Working on commercial / instrument now with rentals. When I first started the private, my wife was also interested / on board and we were going to do it together. Well, she had a bad experience with motion sickness on a very hot Arizona afternoon in an Archer where the CFI was demonstrating inherent stability. Since that time I have not been able to get her in a plane. Period.

In fact, it's become even worse than that. She is now convinced that flying is super dangerous. Sends me links to fatal GA plane crashes. Doesn't like how much it costs or the time that it takes. I think some of it is that I'm a low time pilot (200hrs) and not sure she "trusts" me. 

Unfortunately, I'm the opposite. I'm 100% in. It is a passion. I want to fly more. I'd love to fly places. I want to live the pilot life. But I can't get her to budge. And interestingly enough, none of the family are really interested in flying with me. I do have extended family that would fly everyday with me (brother, brother in law, sister, nephews) but not my kids. 

Just looking to see how many other people struggle with the same thing. How do you deal with a non-flying family when you want to do it all the time? Want to buy a plane (really want to buy a short body Mooney). 

There have to be others out there dealing with this. 

Getting sick in the air when you're not sure you would even like to fly, is probably a traumatic experience.  Pilot's like Bob Hoover experienced it, but he continued flying until he got over it.  I would think, it would be pretty hard to get over.  I think it would take a lot on your wife's part to continue flying until she flew enough to not remember the first bad experience, but I think that is what would be necessary, and that may not be a possibility.

Any way you look at it, buying a non turbocharged airplane while living in Arizona, I guarantee would NEVER work with her.  Turbulence, often times moderate, is with you anytime after about 10:30 am until you get to about 12,500 feet.  So, assuming you get through her fear of getting sick, if you want to buy an airplane, it needs be turbocharged.

You have to get good at understanding the weather.  Flying it yourself is important.  Reading books like Robert Buck's, Weather Flying and Severe Weather Flying by Dennis Newton would be a good start.  Getting at least 1,000 hours flying cross country with an experienced pilot or friend would start getting you that experience.  For me it was after I was teaching a lot, ferrying planes all over the Country, and going on three Rock Band Tours with an Ovation all over the Country at various times of the year, and implementing what I learned from all my reading, that I got good at knowing the weather, especially as relates to turbulence.  Now it would be the exception if I was wrong in predicting whether a flight would be smooth or rough.  A quick tip that you probably already know; if there is no frontal activity, then flying in the early morning and being done by noon will eliminate most turbulence.  In a turbocharged Mooney Bravo, for example, that will take you almost half way across the Country.

So good luck getting some more weather experience by yourself, and, if possible, working with your wife in smooth conditions to get her through her previous bad experience, to enable you to enjoy your passion of flying with her.

[SantosDumont]

My wife just doesn't enjoy flying.  My kids don't enjoy flying because their experience is being crammed in the back seat just staring out the window.  They'd rather play Minecraft than go flying.  So I realized my mission only needs two seats and I'm building a RV-14 in the garage.

Once the kids get a little old enough to solo I might consider getting CFI and teaching them how to fly in the 14 if they want to.

[Heidiho]

My husband began reading your blog to me and I said, “did you submit that blog? Because that is EXACTLY the way I felt about flying” in the beginning, that is.  I even threatened him with divorce—obviously, he called my bluff.  I have to agree with the PIC  husbands’ advice, but wanted to share some thoughts With you from a “wife’s” point of view Which I hope your wife will read.  I get motion sick very easily so I know where she is coming from. I can honestly say that the more she flies with you the less sick she will get.  Her body will become accustomed to the ups and downs of flying plus the more she flies with you the better her comfort level will become regarding your skills and expertise as a pilot.  Being more at ease in the plane also helps reduce the anxiety/ sick feeling that comes when flying.   I have flown with my husband in Cessna 172, 182, and did not enjoy flying at all.   The Mooney is a great plane.  Its low wing and retractable gear enables it to travel faster and is very stable  I appreciate being able to ascend to higher altitudes when circumstances call for that.    Since we bought our Mooney, I enjoy flying.  We go across the country and to the Bahamas and it’s great.  I don’t even mind flying in IFR conditions.  Tell her to just give it a chance.  Take her for short flights on good calm days and work into longer ones.  She will get to the point where even the bumps won’t bother her because she has a better feel for why the plane is acting the way it does.   And one more thing.  Teach her how to be your co-pilot.  My husband made me learn things in the beginning that I did not want to learn.  Now, I am very glad he did.  It helps those long trips not to be so boring.  Operating the radio and listening to A T C is fun.  Her situational awareness will help you be a better pilot because she may catch something going on that you miss because you are preoccupied flying the plane.  I hope she will give it a chance. As you teach her what you Learn  it will reinforce it in your mind and Help her gain a sense of belonging.