next upgrade for an M20F

[podair]

I have a stock 1967 M20F with a three blade Hartzell and cowl closure mod. Typical flights are 400-500nm at 9-10k feet IFR, where I routinely get 143-145kt tas at 8.5gph. 

I am debating whether or not the following upgrades would make sense. If you had to pick , which one? Low single digit AMUs only please...

Powerflow exhaust? it seems it is optimised for the altitudes I fly at

Single windshield (not 201 style, I want to keep the access panels, also have just repainted it in 60s factory scheme, so want it to look original).

Monroy tanks? Not really needed right now but I would like to do some serious long distance flights in the future (Europe-Africa), dream on.

Electronic Ignition? My slicks seem to be doing fine, no issues with starting.

or do I just wait a bit and save , to install the Garmin autopilot when available (have a good old Stec 40 working fine with my GTN)? Avionics wise I have just done an upgrade (new panel with one G5+GTN) but of course there is always a wish for more (that G3X looks great...)!

 

[Marauder]

I have a stock 1967 M20F with a three blade Hartzell and cowl closure mod. Typical flights are 400-500nm at 9-10k feet IFR, where I routinely get 143-145kt tas at 8.5gph. 
I am debating whether or not the following upgrades would make sense. If you had to pick , which one? Low single digit AMUs only please...
Powerflow exhaust? it seems it is optimised for the altitudes I fly at
Single windshield (not 201 style, I want to keep the access panels, also have just repainted it in 60s factory scheme, so want it to look original).
Monroy tanks? Not really needed right now but I would like to do some serious long distance flights in the future (Europe-Africa), dream on.
Electronic Ignition? My slicks seem to be doing fine, no issues with starting.
or do I just wait a bit and save , to install the Garmin autopilot when available (have a good old Stec 40 working fine with my GTN)? Avionics wise I have just done an upgrade (new panel with one G5+GTN) but of course there is always a wish for more (that G3X looks great...)!
 

I can’t tell from your post if you’re happy with with the current performance you’re seeing today. Adding a PowerFlow or SureFly may add a few knots but will that be enough to warrant the investment. Especially if adding the PowerFlow will result in higher fuel consumption.

If your focus is the distance flying, then a full capability autopilot makes sense for those 400 to 500 nm trips and those longer leg flights you mentioned, especially if you are flying a lot of approaches in IMC.

I know you want to keep the vintage look of the plane. I have a fair amount of time in a couple of 67 Fs with the original window. My 75F with the 201 windshield is significantly quieter and I think contributes to my plane being a 150+ KTAS F model.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[RLCarter]

I agree with the windscreen and the accessibility , but I also like the looks of the 201 style.... PowerFlo might give more hp but to me they look like crap and don’t sound that good

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, podair said:

I have a stock 1967 M20F with a three blade Hartzell and cowl closure mod. Typical flights are 400-500nm at 9-10k feet IFR, where I routinely get 143-145kt tas at 8.5gph. 

I am debating whether or not the following upgrades would make sense. If you had to pick , which one? Low single digit AMUs only please...

Powerflow exhaust? it seems it is optimised for the altitudes I fly at

Single windshield (not 201 style, I want to keep the access panels, also have just repainted it in 60s factory scheme, so want it to look original).

Monroy tanks? Not really needed right now but I would like to do some serious long distance flights in the future (Europe-Africa), dream on.

Electronic Ignition? My slicks seem to be doing fine, no issues with starting.

or do I just wait a bit and save , to install the Garmin autopilot when available (have a good old Stec 40 working fine with my GTN)? Avionics wise I have just done an upgrade (new panel with one G5+GTN) but of course there is always a wish for more (that G3X looks great...)!

 

I have a 68F with most of the mods you mentioned.  I do like my 201 windshield but since you don’t want that (and it probably doesn’t get you much anyway)... I’d do the Surefly next time a mag needs 500 hour inspection, not before.  The SF will then (supposedly) last the rest of your engine life.  It won’t add much in the way of speed, maybe a knot or two when LOP at 10,000, but it makes LOP smoother and it may cost less than several 500 hour mag inspections.

Additionally, I’d add another G5 which you didn’t mention, but if you’ve got one, definitely go with two.  Gives you immediate backup ADI, and provides nice electronic ADI/HSI depending on which one you still have.  Also remove the vac pump if you haven’t already.

Personally, I’d keep your autopilot as is until it really fails in an expensive way.

[romeotango]

I think the one mod that gives me the best peace of mind is the JPI-900 I installed last year.

[podair]

agreed, a good engine analyser is a must, first thing I installed when I got the F twelve years ago, and if I ever get another plane.

700 first then upgraded it to a 830 when I re did the panel last year.  

thanks to all for the great comments so far, lots of good points. 201 windshield conversion was my plan for a while, until I really appreciated the value of the access panels when I got some avionics issues. Now that it has all been redone maybe not such an issue, maybe I ll give it another thought!

[Yetti]

Powerflow on a FI Mooney is not going to do much.   Start with a Dynon Skyview 7" Screen Engine monitors

[Jim Peace]

10 hours ago, podair said:

I have a stock 1967 M20F with a three blade Hartzell and cowl closure mod. Typical flights are 400-500nm at 9-10k feet IFR, where I routinely get 143-145kt tas at 8.5gph. 

 

I only know my C and a J I fly....does an F have fuel injection?  

How do you get 8.5 gallons an hour?  

Are you lean of peak or rich of peak and by how many degrees?

[carusoam]

Low cost items for the Pre-modern Mooneys...
 

My C wanted...

• Fuel Flow gauge
• Engine monitor
• Ceis digital fuel level indicators...

The one piece windshield is really nice...fits exactly where the old two piece is... just loses the middle strip...

The F has the original two piece side windows...  Easy to swap out for the J style side window... Just loses the middle strip...

new carpet...

New side wall coverings...

Dynamic Prop balance...

 

Got a GPS already?

See what Alan has on the shelf... pre-flownEd avionics...
 

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-
 

 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Jim Peace said:

I only know my C and a J I fly....does an F have fuel injection?  

How do you get 8.5 gallons an hour?  

Are you lean of peak or rich of peak and by how many degrees?

Yep the F is fuel injected.  It’s just an older version of the J.  I can get my FF down that far as well, LOP, maybe around 9,000’ wide open throttle and 2500ish rpm.  It’s smooth but it’s not real speedy there.  Maybe 135ish kts.  I bet you could get the J you fly down that low.  

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Dynamic Prop balance...

I've flown about three hours since I had mine done, at $180 it is without question the best value of anything I've done to the plane. 

[R-Banger]

+1 for the JPI 900 and Cies Fuel Senders. Haven't installed mine, but it will pretty much consolidate everything on the passenger side panel into a screen for you, with much better accuracy.  Best peace of mind, and also good resale value if that is of concern for you.

[MikeOH]

I have a '70F with 201 windshield, PowerFlow, cowl closure, and all the speed mods...I see about the same: 145 kts at 8500, 8.5 gph, around 40-50LOP.

Frankly, I'm not sure all those mods made much difference but since I bought the plane with all of them, I don't have a baseline on which to compare.

I'm very happy with my STEC-30 w/alt hold.  I'd NEVER spend the money to upgrade. As Rags said, I'd keep it unless it really fails hard.

I just had both mags overhauled; just not convinced that the E-mag really bring that much.

If you don't have an engine monitor, that would be a good place to drop some coin; love my Insight G3.

[carusoam]

Cool...

Jim reminded me of a small cost kind of upgrade....

Once you have the engine monitor....

You already have fuel injection...

You like running LOP...

Get a really tiny GAMI spread... by getting Gami balanced fuel injectors...

Or... get the flow divider OH’d if that hasn’t been done in a long time....

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[wcb]

20 hours ago, podair said:

I have a stock 1967 M20F with a three blade Hartzell and cowl closure mod. Typical flights are 400-500nm at 9-10k feet IFR, where I routinely get 143-145kt tas at 8.5gph. 

I am debating whether or not the following upgrades would make sense. If you had to pick , which one? Low single digit AMUs only please...

Powerflow exhaust? it seems it is optimised for the altitudes I fly at

Single windshield (not 201 style, I want to keep the access panels, also have just repainted it in 60s factory scheme, so want it to look original).

Monroy tanks? Not really needed right now but I would like to do some serious long distance flights in the future (Europe-Africa), dream on.

Electronic Ignition? My slicks seem to be doing fine, no issues with starting.

or do I just wait a bit and save , to install the Garmin autopilot when available (have a good old Stec 40 working fine with my GTN)? Avionics wise I have just done an upgrade (new panel with one G5+GTN) but of course there is always a wish for more (that G3X looks great...)!

 

Powerflow  from what I read is not enough bang for the buck with almost no speed increase for most (at least what I read) (for me it is a no)

Single windshield non 201 style no speed increase (for me it is a no) (for me I am thinking of doing the 201 style),  Also, if you just repainted either way will require some touch up.

Monroy tanks only if your bladder can handle it or pilot relief tube installed (for me it is a no)

EI for me it is when mags need replacing

GFC 500 is what I am waiting for but I have no AP if your STEC 40 is fine then for me it would be a no.

Have you thought of any flap gap, dorsal fin, wing root or any other aerodynamic mods to get a combined knot or 2 along with cleaning up old antenna etc.

[Shiny moose]

I also have a 67F, 201 windscreen, gap seals, cowl closure. My opinion is 1st  a good engine monitor allowing better ROP/LOP now combine that  with execllent fuel quanity measurement,  Next would be an Autopilot to keep you on track. Limiting fuel stops and turns will save you more time and money than a possible 2Kt increase in speed with a mod 

[TheLachlan]

Another G5 and then get rid of the vacuum pump like Rags mentioned. That would clean up your panel further, firewall forward abit too, and save some weight. 

Sounds like you have a good engine monitor. If you cant fly LOP that may be a good investment as well. On the F that we have flying on 50ROP its around 9gph and going to 30LOP it drops to about 7.3gph, that could add up in the long run.

201 windshield seems good as well, like the one on ours, but I dont have anything to compare to since it was installed prior to our ownership, our plane will be right at 150TAS and has the cowl closure too.

On the exhaust and other things that dont make much of a difference I'd just wait until they fail and then make a decision to repair or upgrade at that time if your modding as you go.

 

my $.02

 

[TheLachlan]

Also, 50 LOP was about 150TAS, 30 LOP dropped it to 145TAS or so. You could get the 201 windshield, GAMI injectors and then fly LOP right close to the speed you are currently flying and probably save 2GPH which on a 400nm trip with fuel at lets say, $4 per gallon, it would save you approximately $19.12 biased on 145KTS. Or you could look at it like it saves about $9.56 per hour on fuel flying LOP biased on 2GPH savings and fuel at $4 per gallon. Fly 150hrs per year and thats $1,434.  In 500hrs it becomes $4,780.

[LunkenPilot]

I know what is on my list: GFC 500. Planning an upgrade towards the end of the year. It should be certified on the F in late Sept, shipping kits in October. 

[MBDiagMan]

I am under the impression the GFC500 is currently or soon to be approved for the F.

My previous Mooney, a C, had a 201 windshield with panel access covers at the corners in front of the windscreen.  Was quite nice.

[M20F]

Would add Powerflow also comes with expense every annual.  I have never flown with one but most seem to not be a fan. 
 
I have a MVP-50 in mine but find engine monitors to be highly over rated.  If you fly a lot of IFR another G5 would be my investment.  I have one now (GPS steering is not highly over rated) and looking to add another and TAS sensor when life returns to non-COVID.  The G5 is amazing in value. 
 
GAMI’s are nice if needed but in a lot of cases (yours it would appear included) the stock ones are balanced enough. 

[DXB]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:22 AM, podair said:

I have a stock 1967 M20F with a three blade Hartzell and cowl closure mod. Typical flights are 400-500nm at 9-10k feet IFR, where I routinely get 143-145kt tas at 8.5gph. 

I am debating whether or not the following upgrades would make sense. If you had to pick , which one? Low single digit AMUs only please...

Powerflow exhaust? it seems it is optimised for the altitudes I fly at

Single windshield (not 201 style, I want to keep the access panels, also have just repainted it in 60s factory scheme, so want it to look original).

Monroy tanks? Not really needed right now but I would like to do some serious long distance flights in the future (Europe-Africa), dream on.

Electronic Ignition? My slicks seem to be doing fine, no issues with starting.

or do I just wait a bit and save , to install the Garmin autopilot when available (have a good old Stec 40 working fine with my GTN)? Avionics wise I have just done an upgrade (new panel with one G5+GTN) but of course there is always a wish for more (that G3X looks great...)!

 

Electronic ignition?  Yes!!  A Surefly left mag saves maintenance cost in long run, adds reliability, improves starting, adds leaning ability and/or maybe just a touch of performance in cruise, and it's pretty cheap.

Powerflow exhaust? Maybe...  The benefit to my C model has been spectacular from takeoff roll to about 6-7000ft. Benefit seems to diminish greatly by 9000ft.  I'm not sure if it is different for the IO-360 folks, who seem less enthusiastic overall. It adds about an hour to annual, but is very well made and should last longer than stock exhaust. Call the Powerflow folks to discuss -ask to talk to their president, who is usually available directly. He has been pretty clear and candid with me, and everything he's said, both pro and con, has turned out to be correct.

[petegaz40]

If it was me I’d go for the one piece windshield (inexpensive mod). As far as big money mods the engine analyzer would be at the top of my list.  With that being said, more fuel is by far the best speed mod you can get but if you aren’t flying 600+nm trips they will do you no good. 

[FloridaMan]

Portable O2 system with Mountain High O2D2. You’ll be amazed how much better you feel when you land. After 1100 hours of M20F time when I bought my rocket and started being on the bottle for long high altitude flights, as required, I noticed that I wasn’t fatigued like I would be after a long flight in the M20F. 

[podair]

Great point, but already got one of those too (MH O2 system), been regularly using O2 for fifteen years, best investment I made in my IFR flying since GPS I think, especially as the Mooney is quite happy in the mid teens despite being normally aspirated. One of my regular flights is a late afternoon / early evening flight on a Friday for 2h30 to 3hrs, usually at 9 to 10k, I used to arrive exhausted especially after a busy work week, now actually feel more refreshed when I arrive in time for a great dinner! I have an O2 cylinder in the hangar and do my own refills. 

Darn... no no brainer upgrades then... got most of them... new kitchen will have to go ahead then... 

What's the verdict on the single piece windshield from the early 70s Fs (ie not the 201 one). Easier cheaper to install, keep the inspection panels, but not sure if there is any great benefit and if it looks any better.