Hornets in the cockpit!

[Ricky_231]

This afternoon the weather was just perfect. Low 70s, winds calm, and I had a couple of hours to spare.
 
So I put on my newly acquired Mooney t-shirt (there’s a whole thread about them) and headed to the airport.
 
Preflight was fine, run-up went as usual. No red flags. Plane has been behaving quite well lately save the porpoising autopilot (also another thread).
 
On take off roll, full power, I proclaimed the usual “everything in the green” out loud, except it wasn’t. Oil pressure was high - all the way up to the thin red line.
 
I tried to abort the takeoff but it was too late - I was already at rotation speed, and then in the air. I kept an eye on the oil pressure gauge and nothing, pegged all the way to the right.
 
Called tower immediately and told them I’d be returning to field because of a possible engine malfunction. They cleared me to land immediately, I did a lap around the pattern and landed. Pressure only went down on taxi.
 
Then I ran into a couple of buddies on the ramp that heard me on the radio and we talked about the issue for a while. 30-40 min. At the end of which I decided to give it another go.
 
Same deal - preflight, runup, takeoff. Everything great - this time actually in the green. So I headed to the practice area where I planned to practice a few commercial maneuvers.
 
Then I noticed I wasn’t picking up speed as usual. At this point I’m already paranoid, but realize the gear was still down. My head was clearly not in the game anymore. But I thought I’d push through and do a little flying. That usually makes everything better.
 
Then a HORNET flies right in front of my eyes. INSIDE the cockpit. And it’s angry. It’s trying to go somewhere but keeps hitting the windshield. Then it comes at me. I try to swat it away. A HORNET. IN THE COCKPIT.
 
I opened the little pilot window and kept swatting. It flew out the window. I was still at 1000ft, completely distracted from flying the plane or anything else. That’s how you end up in an NTSB report I thought.
 
I called tower again and called it a day. Some days I guess we’re just not meant to go up.
 
Anyway I thought I’d share this little tale here.
 
Incidentally, if anybody has any idea what could’ve caused the high oil pressure indication... temps were all good. I thought maybe the sender is faulty, or the relief valve clogged with some small impurities or congealed oil. Or maybe a clogged oil filter. I’m due for an oil change in 5 hours anyway - I’ll probably move that up a bit just to make sure everything is new and clean.
 
Thoughts? I’m going up again tomorrow or Friday to see if it happens again. The oil pressure, not the hornets. The continental engine manual make no mention of high pressure. Only low.
 
 
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[Hank]

Wow! That's a first. Other MSers have reported the reverse--being in the cockpit of a Hornet.

Be happy everything went well and he flew away gently. Good luck on the high pressure! Make sure there's not a hornet's somewhere . . . . 

[Ricky_231]

Maybe I’ll add “check for hornets” on my preflight checklist.


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[carusoam]

See if we can think this through....

To get a real high OilP challenge...

1) The oil would have to be extra thick/viscous to cause the resistance to flow needed to raise the pressure...

2) All of the exits oil likes to escape through need to be more closed... (there is an OilP regulator that can be adjusted)

3) Often oil viscosity changes with temperature... if it was really cold it can cause high pressures....

4) Our gear pumps are really good at delivering oil no matter how viscous it gets....

5) Were there any changes with the prop at run-up... thick oil has a tendency to show up here slowly....

6) Some MSers have a second OilP sensor, or their oilP gets recorded via a JPI....   got any JPI data to share?

7) increasing the inflow of oil faster than the outflow occurs... this would increase oilP... to do this would require increasing the engine rpm... to spin the oil pump faster...

8) Hornets are a sign that oil temperature was not extremely low...  

9) Sounds like something was messing around infront of the OilP regulator... and then got flushed out...(?)

10) No change in oil lately, no temperature challenges in other parts of the engine? (Things that may cause oil flow challenges and OilP to rise)

PP thoughts only... not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Ricky_231 said:

Maybe I’ll add “check for hornets” on my preflight checklist.


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Seriously not a bad idea, where there's one there's usually more. You might look for a nest.

[EricJ]

What was the oil temp?   What type of oil are you using?   Mine will alarm once in a while on takeoff but usually settles once it gets warm enough.

I've heard of a few cases where people opened the leading edge air vents in a high-wing Cessna and got a flood of bees or other bugs that had been camping out in there.   Def a preflight check item!

 

[Ricky_231]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

See if we can think this through....

To get a real high OilP challenge...

1) The oil would have to be extra thick/viscous to cause the resistance to flow needed to raise the pressure...

2) All of the exits oil likes to escape through need to be more closed... (there is an OilP regulator that can be adjusted)

3) Often oil viscosity changes with temperature... if it was really cold it can cause high pressures....

4) Our gear pumps are really good at delivering oil no matter how viscous it gets....

5) Were there any changes with the prop at run-up... thick oil has a tendency to show up here slowly....

6) Some MSers have a second OilP sensor, or their oilP gets recorded via a JPI....   got any JPI data to share?

7) increasing the inflow of oil faster than the outflow occurs... this would increase oilP... to do this would require increasing the engine rpm... to spin the oil pump faster...

8) Hornets are a sign that oil temperature was not extremely low...  

9) Sounds like something was messing around infront of the OilP regulator... and then got flushed out...(?)

10) No change in oil lately, no temperature challenges in other parts of the engine? (Things that may cause oil flow challenges and OilP to rise)

PP thoughts only... not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

Let's see:

1) agreed

2) thought about that - will have it checked

3) 75oF... and i let the oil temp rise to mid 100s before doing anything

4) good to know

5) no - the runup was completely uneventful

6) I do not - I've an EI UBG-16 engine monitor - no recording though

7) no changes there - a regular run up + takeoff

8) indeed :-)

9) THAT'S what I'm thinking - wonder where it got flushed out to though - hence the early oil + filter change on my mind now

10) zilch... like I said, plane's been behaving really well lately, and even today - the rise in temp was as every other time, even the changes in pressure were consistent with previous startups/runups (close to the top of the green on start up, oil is cold, slowly decreases as engine warms up, goes to the bottom of the green when in idle by the time I'm at the runup area, increases when I do the mag check, varies slightly with prop cycling, slight drop in then back to normal)

[Ricky_231]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Seriously not a bad idea, where there's one there's usually more. You might look for a nest.

 

42 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I've heard of a few cases where people opened the leading edge air vents in a high-wing Cessna and got a flood of bees or other bugs that had been camping out in there.   Def a preflight check item!

 

I've seen hornets AROUND the plane before - I think they live in a defunct aerostar across the ramp from me. I believe they share the aerostar carcass with the gazillion birds that live there too.

I always do a very thorough walk around, especially during mating season looking for bird nests. Today I even opened up the tail panel to look inside. No nests of any kind. Unless it's inside the cockpit, like under the seat. But talk about a nightmare scenario.

At least I *think* it wasn't a murder hornet :-)

[Ricky_231]

46 minutes ago, EricJ said:

What was the oil temp?   What type of oil are you using?   Mine will alarm once in a while on takeoff but usually settles once it gets warm enough.

Middle of the green - mid 100s. Phillips 66 20w50. It usually goes up a bit on takeoff, but I had never seen it pegged to the right on the red line. Also, when I turned around to come back and land, I pulled power to 21-22" and the gauge just stayed there on the red line. It only went back to normal after I started taxiing to the ramp. But then, on the second flight, before the hornet encounter, it was behave normally again. That's why I'm starting to think @carusoam's #9 is a serious contender.

[carusoam]

Also check the gauge failure mode...

Some gauges go redline when failed...

Others decide zero is best for failure...

See what a loose connection is apt to do...

PP thoughts as usual...

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

1 hour ago, Ricky_231 said:

Middle of the green - mid 100s. Phillips 66 20w50. It usually goes up a bit on takeoff, but I had never seen it pegged to the right on the red line. Also, when I turned around to come back and land, I pulled power to 21-22" and the gauge just stayed there on the red line. It only went back to normal after I started taxiing to the ramp. But then, on the second flight, before the hornet encounter, it was behave normally again. That's why I'm starting to think @carusoam's #9 is a serious contender.

I would add some Marvel Mystery Oil and try again, then change the oil as planned afterwards. 

[Ricky_231]

8 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I would add some Marvel Mystery Oil and try again, then change the oil as planned afterwards. 

isn't that the thing with pig fat in it? does it work?

[Ricky_231]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Also check the gauge failure mode...

Some gauges go redline when failed...

Others decide zero is best for failure...

See what a loose connection is apt to do...

PP thoughts as usual...

Best regards,

-a-

yep - i just had my ASI overhauled, so a lot of fiddling behind those gauges

[ArtVandelay]

isn't that the thing with pig fat in it? does it work?

I believe the pig fat is an urban myth. On my old engine it prevented morning sickness. There is a YouTube video where a guy puts it into a lawnmower engine:

[Cloudsurfer11-03]

15 hours ago, Ricky_231 said:

Maybe I’ll add “check for hornets” on my preflight checklist.


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Have a friend who was flying Aztecs for a survey company around 2009. His plane had been sitting on the ramp at an airport near LA for a week or so when on preflight he discovered killer bees had built a nest in the nose baggage compartment. Luckily he got the door closed and ran away before getting stung. Probably good he found it before takeoff  I know they had a fun time figuring out how to deal with that one.

[Cloudsurfer11-03]

2 hours ago, Ricky_231 said:

isn't that the thing with pig fat in it? does it work?

The real mystery is why people keep using it ;-)

[Ricky_231]

1 minute ago, Cloudsurfer11-03 said:

Have a friend who was flying Aztecs for a survey company around 2009. His plane had been sitting on the ramp at an airport near LA for a week or so when on preflight he discovered killer bees had built a nest in the nose baggage compartment. Luckily he got the door closed and ran away before getting stung. Probably good he found it before takeoff  I know they had a fun time figuring out how to deal with that one.

Today's preflight is going to be especially paranoid

[Ricky_231]

Alright - whatever it was, it's gone. Couldn't replicate the issue today - all gauges in the green, performance normal. I'm still going to get the sender/gauge checked, and keep an eye on things.

Also, no hornets - DOUBLE WIN!

 

 

[Seth]

That's scary.  Good job keeping your cool and not turning into an NTSB report.

 

-Seth

[LANCECASPER]

20 minutes ago, Seth said:

That's scary.  Good job keeping your cool and not turning into an NTSB report.

 

-Seth

That could have opened up a real hornet’s nest

[Austintatious]

Ohh man, good story.  I was in an L-19 flyign around and had a big ol wasp come out of somewhere and start buzzing around... I landed ASAP on a grass field and got that bugger out of there!

At the glider club, some guy took up one of the gliders and shortly after coming off tow, he said he had several yellow jackets in the cockpit with him.  ... glider cockpits are SMALL... like stupid small.  He landed and we found a massive hornets nest in the tail... When he had airspeed the flow back there stirred them up.  Glad it wasnt me!

[FloridaMan]

You should’ve shut off the master and seen if the gauge went to zero. Not sure if it works the same as my old oil temp gauge in my m20f, but a poor connection in the gauge socket resulted in a high reading. Turning off the master showed it still reading and a firm press with my thumb reseated it and read where it should have. 

[Ricky_231]

4 hours ago, Austintatious said:

Ohh man, good story.  I was in an L-19 flyign around and had a big ol wasp come out of somewhere and start buzzing around... I landed ASAP on a grass field and got that bugger out of there!

At the glider club, some guy took up one of the gliders and shortly after coming off tow, he said he had several yellow jackets in the cockpit with him.  ... glider cockpits are SMALL... like stupid small.  He landed and we found a massive hornets nest in the tail... When he had airspeed the flow back there stirred them up.  Glad it wasnt me!

Yikes - I kept thinking  "what if I'm allergic? what if stings me in the eye?". The worst part is I was probably at 500-700ft AGL at this point, and the Dulles Bravo only 500ft above me. So on top of everything I'm having to balance neither hitting the ground nor busting airspace. I thought about turning on the AP then I remembered it's porpoising like crazy in ALT mode! It was just one of those days... Yesterday was quite the opposite though - what a day to fly! So there's that :-)

[Ricky_231]

1 hour ago, FloridaMan said:

You should’ve shut off the master and seen if the gauge went to zero. Not sure if it works the same as my old oil temp gauge in my m20f, but a poor connection in the gauge socket resulted in a high reading. Turning off the master showed it still reading and a firm press with my thumb reseated it and read where it should have. 

It came back down a hair on final approach and then all the way back to normal (after a few wiggles) during taxi. Feels like something stuck - but I can see how a bad connection could have a similar effect. I'm going to have it checked and reseated/connections tightened just in case.

[Ibra]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:33 AM, Ricky_231 said:

Maybe I’ll add “check for hornets” on my preflight checklist.

Glad you made it safely and good you did not sqwak 7500, you would get two other hornets (F18s) under the wings 

There was something done by NASA looking at 0G flying of insects, bees? but you may need an A310-0G or B727-0G for that 

5 hours ago, Austintatious said:

At the glider club, some guy took up one of the gliders and shortly after coming off tow, he said he had several yellow jackets in the cockpit with him.  ... glider cockpits are SMALL... like stupid small.  He landed and we found a massive hornets nest in the tail... When he had airspeed the flow back there stirred them up.  Glad it wasnt me!

Someone was checking airbraks on wood & fabric glider on the ground with hands inside cockpit before the flying day, as he openned airbreaks he slammed them down along with the canopy and run away across the luanch line screaming "mice, mice" (it was one mouse ), that would have been a heck of experience on final...

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Ibra