Mooney factory closed again

[Oscar Avalle]

 

 

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Mooney Employees Furloughed Again

Marc CookJanuary 6, 20207

 

Employees at Mooney’s Kerrville plant, furloughed on Nov. 11 and recalled in early December, are once again out of work. The Kerrville Daily Times is reporting that employees were told to “go home” today and that the company would not be giving them the two weeks of holiday pay they were promised earlier this month.

 

 

Devan Burns, who worked for Mooney in human resources, told the paper that 55 employees were discharged today. “There have been a lot of promises,” she said. “I’ve just been trying to help keep Mooney stay alive. It’s extremely frustrating.” As we mentioned earlier, Mooney was seeking additional investment. Burns acknowledged this to the Kerrville Daily Times but said she “wasn’t sure what the future held.” AVweb will have more information when it becomes available.

 

 

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[Austintatious]

I cant believe that this isnt getting more attention on this board...    This aint good... especially considering they boned employees on the promises they made.  I woudl imagine that if this happened to me, I would be looking elsewhere and never looking back.

[RobertGary1]

Just now, Austintatious said:

I cant believe that this isnt getting more attention on this board...    

There is s massive thread on this already here.  

-Robert 

[mike_elliott]

1 minute ago, Austintatious said:

I cant believe that this isnt getting more attention on this board...    This aint good... especially considering they boned employees on the promises they made.  I woudl imagine that if this happened to me, I would be looking elsewhere and never looking back.

if almost 700 posts counts as more attention, then it can be reviewed here

 

[Austintatious]

55 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

if almost 700 posts counts as more attention, then it can be reviewed here

 

That thread is about the 1st closure... this is a new closure and ion that thread there is only 4 responses.   Did I misunderstand that the factory has closed AGAIN?

[mike_elliott]

57 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

That thread is about the 1st closure... this is a new closure and ion that thread there is only 4 responses.   Did I misunderstand that the factory has closed AGAIN?

It is and also about the closure Monday, starting on page 26

[BigD]

Ok, I’ll say the same thing I said the last thing they closed - and I posted it on other thread - I feel for the families. Looks like this one might be for good. They can’t expect workers to come back after a second closure and defaulting on promises. Luckily it’s not 2009 or 2001, hopefully they land on their feet. If I was a billionaire I’d buy the company myself, give them all jobs and make it right. As it is, I guess I’ll have to forgo my purchase of a 700k plane and keep flying my 1965 C model. I’d be a bit more optimistic and less negative had I not seen they broke promises to their workforce. Having been through that myself, it makes me think less of upper Mooney management. Hopefully these employees will land on their feet.

 

 

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[steingar]

I doubt anyone is going to swoop in and buy Mooney, not with the sales figures they've been reporting.  Only thing I can't figure out about the Chinese is what took them so long.

[carusoam]

This is getting goofier than ROP v. LOP...

 

Anyone here study ‘capitalism in a communist country’ in their MBA program?

Follow that up with ‘private ownership of a company, under communist rule’

How about a finance class for modern communism?

 

Communism used to be so simple...

 

My hat is off for the people at both ends of this debacle...

There aren’t many machine building manufacturing companies in the neighborhood to go to...

The factory management is pretty Top Notch to have gone this far...

I have quite the biased opinion... I am a Mooney owner...

Best I can tell, they are still on the same team, fighting the same fight...

Still waiting for the next piece of news to come out... from a reliable resource...

Like everything else, the news comes out when released...

anyone can shut down a business...

It takes a successful team and a bunch of hard work, throw on some good luck, to build and grow a business...

Don’t throw in the towel until somebody makes you...  

Keep fighting the good fight. Everybody on the team has an important job to do...

Everybody on the outside wants to see success... (let me know if this is not a true statement)

Best regards,

-a-

 

[DXB]

Company website is still up.  Either hopeful or pathetic, depending on ultimate outcome.  Only time will tell.

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

Company website is still up.  Either hopeful or pathetic, depending on ultimate outcome.  Only time will tell.

I bet Mooney let their IT/web employee go like everyone else.  So, until the hosting site doesn't get paid, I suspect the site will remain up.

Edited January 14, 2020 by MikeOH

[exM20K]

The service bulletins and other support doc are served up from hubspot.com

Dunno if their website is hosted on hubspot cms

In my day job, we use hubspot for both, and it ain't cheap. It's good, but a zombie company will not be on hubspot for long

-dan

[carusoam]

News to watch this week...

If world news affects Mooney and it’s parent company...

Wednesday should be the start of interesting things....

Best regards,

-a-

U.S. and China trade representatives are expected to end intense bilateral negotiations with a "phase one" deal on Wednesday. The deal potentially promises billions of dollars' worth of agricultural purchases and is likely to mark the beginning of reforms to China's longstanding practice of forced technology transfer.

On Monday, the U.S. removed China from a list of countries considered currency manipulators, the Treasury Department announced.

 

 

 

[carusoam]

Wednesday’s world finance/China news...

See if this helps any...

-a-

China's central bank injects $58 billion of loans but keeps rates steady
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/15/chinas-central-bank-injects-58-billion-of-loans-but-rates-unchanged.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.Message

[PMcClure]

I wonder how much it would cost to purchase Mooney. And how much it would cost to keep the certifications up. And how much it could do in sales of just parts? And how many refurbs they could do in a year and forget selling new single engine planes. 

[RobertGary1]

40 minutes ago, PMcClure said:

I wonder how much it would cost to purchase Mooney. And how much it would cost to keep the certifications up. And how much it could do in sales of just parts? And how many refurbs they could do in a year and forget selling new single engine planes. 

They’ve always said that parts business is what brings jn the cash. I’m sure that business with go top dollar. Doubtful you can make money building planes though. Fortunately the fleet is but enough that the parts business will keep the type certificate healthy. 

[PMcClure]

26 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

They’ve always said that parts business is what brings jn the cash. I’m sure that business with go top dollar. Doubtful you can make money building planes though. Fortunately the fleet is but enough that the parts business will keep the type certificate healthy. 

I read one source where parts was bringing in about $50k per week or about $2.6mm. Maybe I am crazy, but don't see this out of reach for a small committed group to purchase Mooney and keep the parts alive. I don't believe the factory will ever build another new air plane. Not sure the value or cost of keeping the certifications in zombie mode for future plans or acquisitions. 

[Parker_Woodruff]

27 minutes ago, PMcClure said:

I read one source where parts was bringing in about $50k per week or about $2.6mm. Maybe I am crazy, but don't see this out of reach for a small committed group to purchase Mooney and keep the parts alive. I don't believe the factory will ever build another new air plane. Not sure the value or cost of keeping the certifications in zombie mode for future plans or acquisitions. 

If by "group", you mean "Mooney owners", I wouldn't do that.  It hasn't worked out so well for Commander.

Can you imagine all us Mooney chefs in the kitchen? 

[pwnel]

1 hour ago, PMcClure said:

I read one source where parts was bringing in about $50k per week or about $2.6mm. Maybe I am crazy, but don't see this out of reach for a small committed group to purchase Mooney and keep the parts alive. I don't believe the factory will ever build another new air plane. Not sure the value or cost of keeping the certifications in zombie mode for future plans or acquisitions. 

It seems this is being considered.  I know of at least one aviation expert who has been called as part of a due diligence.  (I work for a consulting firm. We typically engage expert networks like GLG to connect with industry insiders in a DD situation like this.  Seems this is exactly what is being done.  By whom we won't know).

My own opinion: buy out Mooney for a price that makes sense for revenues as above. Consolidate as many of the STCs as possible (e.g. even Rocket).  Maybe even merge with Lasar.  All American already works with Maxwell.  Maybe combine all of that :-)  Maintenance, parts, 2nd hand sales.  What a team it will be!

Edited January 20, 2020 by pwnel

[PMcClure]

3 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

If by "group", you mean "Mooney owners", I wouldn't do that.  It hasn't worked out so well for Commander.

Can you imagine all us Mooney chefs in the kitchen? 

All of us?  LOL! We can't even agree how to fly LOP or even if you can sell your plane without potentially bankrupting your future great grandchildren. But a select few, maybe

 

2 hours ago, pwnel said:

It seems this is being considered.  I know of at least one aviation expert who has been called as part of a due diligence.  (I work for a consulting firm. We typically engage expert networks like GLG to connect with industry insiders in a DD situation like this.  Seems this is exactly what is being done.  By whom we won't know).

My own opinion: buy out Mooney for a price that makes sense for revenues as above. Consolidate as many of the STCs as possible (e.g. even Rocket).  Maybe even merge with Lasar.  All American already works with Maxwell.  Maybe combine all of that :-)  Maintenance, parts, 2nd hand sales.  What a team it will be!

That would be good news. I wish I knew who was involved. Sounds like an interesting prospect. 

[Releew]

 

Was this honestly a surprise to anyone on the site?  Would any of you step up and invest in Mooney?  Personally, I wouldn't with their present business model.  Said it before and will again...too many people hours to build this ship.  

Rick

[Austintatious]

I am not surprised...   They needed to be able to sell the new aircraft for SUBSTANTIALLY less than a turbo cirrus.  Otherwise I can see no reason to go with a Mooney over the cirrus. 

They are basically the same price...both 200 knot airplanes only the cirrus carries more weight, is more simple to operate, has more room inside and has a parachute.   Why would anyone have gone with a Mooney?

There is obviously a HUGE market that Cirrus has dominated and to me the reason is obvious...  Now, had a New Mooney cost 250k less than a cirrus, they would have likely sold many many more.

Just stop and ponder for a second that someone was able to design, certify and tool up for  a new aircraft that best mooney in almost every respect (save for max top speed) and sell for about the same price.  Mooney has been making essentially the same aircraft for how long now?  How different is the wing on a new mooney vs the ones from the 70's ?  yet Cirruse simply dominated Mooney.  That doesn't happen because one airplane is a SLIGHTLY better buy than the other... it happens because one is a VASTLY better buy.

I love my Rockets... amazing aircraft and at what I could spend on aircraft, they were a no brainer.... However had I been looking at dropping 800K on a new airplane, I  would not have bought a Mooney.  It would have made no sense.  

 

 

[Bravoman]

1 hour ago, Austintatious said:

I am not surprised...   They needed to be able to sell the new aircraft for SUBSTANTIALLY less than a turbo cirrus.  Otherwise I can see no reason to go with a Mooney over the cirrus. 

They are basically the same price...both 200 knot airplanes only the cirrus carries more weight, is more simple to operate, has more room inside and has a parachute.   Why would anyone have gone with a Mooney?

There is obviously a HUGE market that Cirrus has dominated and to me the reason is obvious...  Now, had a New Mooney cost 250k less than a cirrus, they would have likely sold many many more.

Just stop and ponder for a second that someone was able to design, certify and tool up for  a new aircraft that best mooney in almost every respect (save for max top speed) and sell for about the same price.  Mooney has been making essentially the same aircraft for how long now?  How different is the wing on a new mooney vs the ones from the 70's ?  yet Cirruse simply dominated Mooney.  That doesn't happen because one airplane is a SLIGHTLY better buy than the other... it happens because one is a VASTLY better buy.

I love my Rockets... amazing aircraft and at what I could spend on aircraft, they were a no brainer.... However had I been looking at dropping 800K on a new airplane, I  would not have bought a Mooney.  It would have made no sense.  

 

 

I’m not sure even if the new Mooneys were 250k less it would have made a significant difference or caused very many Cirrus buyers to go Mooney. Very different buyer, and I know a few guys who buy new Cirri every few years. Money is not an object to them.

[pwnel]

4 hours ago, Releew said:

 

Was this honestly a surprise to anyone on the site?  Would any of you step up and invest in Mooney?  Personally, I wouldn't with their present business model.  Said it before and will again...too many people hours to build this ship.  

Rick

Yes I would.  Not to build new planes, to support the existing fleet.  Provided I could get Mooney Inc at the right price, combine it with Lasar, buy the Rocket STC and all Lopresti mods, bring in Jimmy to run second hand sales, bring in Maxwell or one (or several) of the nearby Texas MSCs and run a lean vertically integrated Mooney shop at Kerrville.  Maybe offer full one-stop-shop refurbs using local suppliers like AeroComfort etc.

[TGreen]

3 hours ago, Austintatious said:

I am not surprised...   They needed to be able to sell the new aircraft for SUBSTANTIALLY less than a turbo cirrus.  Otherwise I can see no reason to go with a Mooney over the cirrus. 

 

There is obviously a HUGE market that Cirrus has dominated and to me the reason is obvious...  

 

 

 

Agree that Cirrus has dominated. Don't agree that the market for high performance singles is huge. Cirrus sells about half as many planes as it did in 2006. About 6 per state per year. And no one else sells any. As far as high performance singles go, Cirrus is dominating a vanishing market.