Mooney Down - KCHD

[RogueOne]

33 minutes ago, bonal said:

Nobody hurt, great news. New owners pride and joy heavily damaged. Totally sucks. Making jokes is a little harsh don't you think.

If “certain people” have an incident I AM GOING TO BE BRUTAL.  #memory.  #Itcanhappentoyou #empathy #toosoon

[Jerry 5TJ]

Sad to see such a bent Bravo.  

Chandler Air replaced the mixture cable in my C when it broke off in my hand on approach to KCHD in 2015.   

This repair will take longer than 2 days I needed.  

[Niko182]

I knew that plane looked familiar. it was based at John Wayne about 5 months ago, and I believe the owner had it lifelong, but decided to sell it for a 19 Acclaim with FIKI. It was a beautiful bravo. one of the nicest bravos I'd seen.

[aviatoreb]

17 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I knew that plane looked familiar. it was based at John Wayne about 5 months ago, and I believe the owner had it lifelong, but decided to sell it for a 19 Acclaim with FIKI. It was a beautiful bravo. one of the nicest bravos I'd seen.

If it was in top shape - maybe it will make sense for insurance to repair and it will fly again!

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, bonal said:

Nobody hurt, great news. New owners pride and joy heavily damaged. Totally sucks. Making jokes is a little harsh don't you think.

With everyone ok - what a relief - a joke is for me an expression of relief the fact that this is not a tragedy. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, RogueOne said:

Doesn’t sound like THAT was the scenario though...

Glad the ramp was clear of activity and appears only metal bent.  As someone that ALSO had his only incident while under instruction I feel for the pilot.  That is one STEEP friggin’ learning curve.  

Definition of a BAD DAY...

Who’s insurance pays in the case of an accident during training of a check ride? Is the accident recorded against the pilot or the examiner?

Clarence

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Maybe there was a Comanche 400 taxiing to the fuel pump, and he didn't want to wait an hour for him to refuel...

Not my 400, it’s down waiting on the Aspen to return.

Clarence

[RogueOne]

1 minute ago, M20Doc said:

Who’s insurance pays in the case of an accident during training of a check ride? Is the accident recorded against the pilot or the examiner?

Clarence

Dunno.  In my incident we both had same carrier so no other company to “fight with” over who was responsible and percentage.

[Andy95W]

19 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

With everyone ok - what a relief - a joke is for me an expression of relief the fact that this is not a tragedy. 

Obviously 2 different schools of thought.  I'm with Erik.

[MIm20c]

4 hours ago, rbridges said:

At least it's a newer model. Hopefully it's worth fixing and not destined for spare parts. 

I think it’s a newer paint job but an older bravo. I agree that’s it going to be close. I feel bad for the newish owner. 

[MIm20c]

55 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I knew that plane looked familiar. it was based at John Wayne about 5 months ago, and I believe the owner had it lifelong, but decided to sell it for a 19 Acclaim with FIKI. It was a beautiful bravo. one of the nicest bravos I'd seen.

At first glance I thought it might be the pristine 2004 DX bravo that was FS recently. It still looks like a really nice one. 

[Ragsf15e]

51 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Who’s insurance pays in the case of an accident during training of a check ride? Is the accident recorded against the pilot or the examiner?

Clarence

The pilot is PIC, even on a PP checkride, but not being PIC doesn’t always mean the examiner or CFI is completely absolved.  A CFI may or may not be PIC with a student, depends on qualifications, medical, and what they’re doing.  The owners insurance pays either way... just depends on if they try to subrogate to the CFI.  That’s why there’s instructor insurance.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Ragsf15e

[chriscalandro]

When it comes to the FAA and trouble, whoever has the most experience is the one on the hook.  Not necessarily the PIC.

[Davidv]

Since everyone appears to be ok:

"Aging damage history, minor gear up landing in 2019, professionally repaired with full documentation" 

[ExpressJetter]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

The pilot is PIC, even on a PP checkride, but not being PIC doesn’t always mean the examiner or CFI is completely absolved.  A CFI may or may not be PIC with a student, depends on qualifications, medical, and what they’re doing.  The owners insurance pays either way... just depends on if they try to subrogate to the CFI.  That’s why there’s instructor insurance.

I've always heard this as a CFI.  It is whoever is PIC is at fault, but CFIs can also be at fault  due to training level.  But that's only hearsay that I've heard.  Never seen the actual outcomes of accidents and blame

[Bravoman]

I would bet it will be a total loss at least from an insurance perspective. Not saying it couldn’t be repaired (that question above my pay grade) but probably an economic total loss. 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Bravoman

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

When it comes to the FAA and trouble, whoever has the most experience is the one on the hook.  Not necessarily the PIC.

Yeah I definitely agree with that.  The FAA and NTSB gonna make the cfi at least partially at fault in the report.

[M016576]

5 hours ago, Niko182 said:

It was a beautiful bravo. one of the nicest bravos I'd seen.

Was being the operative word.  Sad to see... and now the Fiki bravo’s are just that much more rare...

[M016576]

4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

The pilot is PIC, even on a PP checkride, but not being PIC doesn’t always mean the examiner or CFI is completely absolved.  A CFI may or may not be PIC with a student, depends on qualifications, medical, and what they’re doing.  The owners insurance pays either way... just depends on if they try to subrogate to the CFI.  That’s why there’s instructor insurance.

This is true.

[kmyfm20s]

Glad everyone is safe! That thing is totaled!! I don’t see that getting repaired.

[ArtVandelay]

What does a wing cost these days?


Tom

[Niko182]

6 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

What does a wing cost these days?


Tom

Id guess fiki wings would be extremely rare.

[mike_elliott]

12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

The owners insurance pays either way... just depends on if they try to subrogate to the CFI.  That’s why there’s instructor insurance.

and why I dont set foot in a plane I am not named insured addnl pilot with a waiver of subrogation. I have no desire to allow an insurance carrier to hedge their insurance bet with my assets. Yes, I also carry a non owned policy for instructing, but have found things go smoothly when all the lawyers are on the same side of the table. A lot of people fear their liability is limited if tey do this, but it is only limited to what their policy limits are. 

Parker Woodruff will expound on this at the Mooney Summit during a roundtable on airport day, Friday Sept 27th at KECP. All are welcome to come, be educated and eat BBQ on Kelly Aerospace and Sheltair.

 

[HXG]

20 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I don’t know much about it. I don’t think anybody was hurt. I was told it was a stall while practicing short field takeoffs. Plane hit off the end of the runway and skidded across the ramp.

Early with little known, but seems like a strange takeoff accident. Short field or not I never “pull” a piston plane off the ground at a rotation speed. I let it fly off with gentle back pressure.  Was trim not reset for takeoff? Was gear retracted too early? Gusty low level wind shear? Or just poor technique trying to make a perfectly good airplane fly before it was ready? I’m curious. Glad no one was hurt. Sucks for those involved. 

 

[M016576]

27 minutes ago, HXG said:

Was trim not reset for takeoff?

Run away trim, or not reset trim can definitely be causal in an accident like this.

Edited September 15, 2019 by M016576