1969 M20E Descent Chart & CG Envelope.

[RLCarter]

@Bob R, I added the 2 docs that Mooney sent me as well. The graphs in the Mooney Docs are worthless for use thats why I did a full page "Clean" graph for loading and W&B

[Jeph357]

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/AFM Supplements/Mark20E_WTBAL.pdf

 

From Mooney.com tech publications

[Andy95W]

7 minutes ago, Jeph357 said:

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/AFM Supplements/Mark20E_WTBAL.pdf

 

From Mooney.com tech publications

⬆️⬆️

@Bob R- I would print out the above and be able to work it for your checkride.  

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

[midlifeflyer]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

RLC,

What Mooney sent you...

The ‘POH’ is the OM.... because POHs weren’t defined by the FAA until years later... .

 

To be super-technical (and give you a lead when playing Trivial Pursuit: Aircraft Edition), the FAA has never defined POH. The FAA refers to an AFM, an FAA approved "Airplane Flight Manual." The Pilot Operating Handbook is a "consensus" format for owner manuals originally created by the General Aviation Manufacturers Association in 1975 to standardize the presentation of both FAA-required and manufacturer-desired Information. The Preface to GAMA Specification No 1 provides much of the background.

[DMM]

9 hours ago, takair said:

There were two manuals that came with the plane. The Pilot Operating Handbook (aka Owners Manual) and the Aircraft Flight Manual.  

The TCDS specifies which Aircraft Flight Manual version needs to be in the plane. 

Interior Equipment:
401. .......FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual

(a) Owners Manual, dated September 3, 1963,(or November, 1965) for S/N 101 through 831, 

(b) Owners Manual, dated March, 1967 for S/N 832 thru 670062 

(c) Flight Manual, dated July, 1968 for S/N 690001 thru 690073 

(d) Flight Manual dated August 21, 1970, for S/N 700001 thru 700061. S/N 21-0001 thru 21-0023 (Aerostar) 

(e) Flight Manual dated January 1974, for S/N 21-0024 through 21-1160. See NOTE 2. 

(f) Flight Manual dated December 1974, for S/N 21-1161 through 21-1180. See NOTE 2.

[Bob_Belville]

The FAA Approved AFM for my '66E is a chuck full 1" 3 ring notebook. In addition to W&B it includes supplements for operating STC'd equipment that has been added

Cover page:

FAA APPROVED

AIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUAL

Including Supplements, Wt & Bal

N943RW

Original: N2566W; Second: N8522Z; Third: N943RW

1966 MOONEY M-20E SUPER  21

Serial #929

1966 Production Year Aircraft

FAA Airworthiness Certificate Issued Dec. 3, 1965

Contents:

AFM:   Mooney Original – (Rev 1-31-1966)                             Tab 1

Mooney Super 21 Owners Manual (Rev 11-1-1965)           Tab 2

Wt – Balance & Equipment List                                      Tab 3

AFM Sup: Garmin GTN 750 GPS/SBAS (3-18-2011)                    Tab 4

AFM Sup: Aspen EFD1000 PFD (8-7-2012)                                       Tab 5

AFM Sup: JP Instruments EDM-930 (12-10-2004)                     Tab 6

AFM Sup: Garmin GDL 88 ADS-B Transceiver (12-28-2012)        Tab 7

AFM Sup: S-TEC System 50 Autopilot (4-21-1989)                    Tab 8

AFM Sup: S-TEC Manual Electric Elevator Trim (8-11-1989)      Tab 9

AFM Sup: Aircraft Components Gear Alert (5-29-1998)             Tab 10

AFM Sup: O&N Bladder Type Wing Fuel Cells (1-21-1988)                         Tab 11

AFM Sup: Precise Flight Manual Speedbrakes (4-30-1992)       Tab 12

AFM Sup: Plane Power Alternator Conversion (7-25-2007)        Tab 13

AFM Sup: Hartzell Two-Blade Propeller (7-12-2007)                  Tab 14

AFM Sup: Ack Emma CYA-10 Angle of Attack                          Tab 15

 

Owner:

Robert C. Belville

(address & phone #)

AFM Cover Page

January 3 2019

[Bob R]

7 hours ago, DMM said:

The TCDS specifies which Aircraft Flight Manual version needs to be in the plane. 

Interior Equipment:
401. .......FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual

(a) Owners Manual, dated September 3, 1963,(or November, 1965) for S/N 101 through 831, 

(b) Owners Manual, dated March, 1967 for S/N 832 thru 670062 

(c) Flight Manual, dated July, 1968 for S/N 690001 thru 690073 

(d) Flight Manual dated August 21, 1970, for S/N 700001 thru 700061. S/N 21-0001 thru 21-0023 (Aerostar) 

(e) Flight Manual dated January 1974, for S/N 21-0024 through 21-1160. See NOTE 2. 

(f) Flight Manual dated December 1974, for S/N 21-1161 through 21-1180. See NOTE 2.

Does anyone have a flight manual dated July 1968 they can post?

Thanks, Bob

 

[RLCarter]

Mooney Doc shows it as POH-001192? Not sure what to tell ya. did the DPE say "Flight Manual"? 

[Ned Gravel]

20 hours ago, RLCarter said:

 

N9061V Weight&Balance.pdf 16.26 kB · 13 downloads

Looks the same  as my 65' according to TCDS, hope this helps

Ouch.  Looks nothing like my W&B chart with confirmed boundary conditions shown on the TCDS (Rev 58 - 20 Aug 2018) for my '65E as:

• C.G. Range (+46.5) to (+49.0) at 2575 lbs. 
• (Landing gear extended)(+42.0) to (+49.0) at 2100 lbs. or less 
• (Straight line variation between points given). 
• Retraction moment 588 in. -lb. 

Am I missing something and flying out of acceptable limits?

[RLCarter]

@Ned Gravel I did mine several years ago, it matches the on in the POH and the one Mooney sent back then (page1 look for Mark20E_AFM_WTBAL.pdf) the one difference that I can see on my phone is yours is in inches and mine is moment/1000

[takair]

29 minutes ago, Ned Gravel said:

Ouch.  Looks nothing like my W&B chart with confirmed boundary conditions shown on the TCDS (Rev 58 - 20 Aug 2018) for my '65E as:

• C.G. Range (+46.5) to (+49.0) at 2575 lbs. 
• (Landing gear extended)(+42.0) to (+49.0) at 2100 lbs. or less 
• (Straight line variation between points given). 
• Retraction moment 588 in. -lb. 

Am I missing something and flying out of acceptable limits?

This one shows arm and the other is calculated moment arm.  Multiply weight times arm from this chart and divide by 1000 and I think it’s the you will see the number on the other chart. Mine looks like this and I find it more intuitive.

[Ned Gravel]

6 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

@Ned Gravel I did mine several years ago, it matches the on in the POH and the one Mooney sent back then (page1 look for Mark20E_AFM_WTBAL.pdf) the one difference that I can see on my phone is yours is in inches and mine is moment/1000

Got it.  That makes sense. 

[Bob R]

3 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

Got it.  That makes sense. 

You are won't believe this. but down in the bowels of this paperwork I have, I found what I was looking for. However I don't have the first couple pages with the equipment list but I have a different equipment list. I think it will get me by. Thanks for all your help I'm going to call Mooney on Tuesday and see if I can't get something from them.

Great discussion though I learned a lot.

Bob

 

[RLCarter]

Be sure to post what Mooney says...... Good luck on your ck ride

[DMM]

 

Here's the M20E Approved Flight Manual from Mooney's Technical Publications website. Note the first page states the document must be in the aircraft. I hope this helps. 

Mark20E_AFM.pdf

[RLCarter]

10 minutes ago, DMM said:

 

Here's the M20E Approved Flight Manual from Mooney's Technical Publications website. Note the first page states the document must be in the aircraft. I hope this helps. 

Mark20E_AFM.pdf 773.09 kB · 2 downloads

Same one I posted except the one mooney sent me isn't a crappy copy and more complete than the one they post in their pubs

[DMM]

2 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

Same one I posted except the one mooney sent me isn't a crappy copy and more complete than the one they post in their pubs

I missed that. Yeah the website pub looks like a 10th generation copy. 

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, DMM said:

 Yeah the website pub looks like a 10th generation copy. 

there was a copy in the plane when I purchased it, I pitched it when Mooney sent the nice clean and straight one

[Ragsf15e]

22 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Same one I posted except the one mooney sent me isn't a crappy copy and more complete than the one they post in their pubs

So I tried to find that document for my M20F on the Mooney website and it doesn’t seem to exist.  I see all the SBs and the weight and balance charts, but no AFM.  Wonder if their copy was lost in one of the closings...

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

So I tried to find that document for my M20F on the Mooney website and it doesn’t seem to exist.  I see all the SBs and the weight and balance charts, but no AFM.  Wonder if their copy was lost in one of the closings...

If your looking for the AFM (Airplane Flight Manual), I doubt they exist.. If you look on the TCDS on "F Models" (HERE) the F only has either Owners Manuals or Operating Manuals depending on your year, If you scroll down for the "J's" the list they specify both a POH and the AFM. You might give Mooney a call and see what they say

[Ragsf15e]

46 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

If your looking for the AFM (Airplane Flight Manual), I doubt they exist.. If you look on the TCDS on "F Models" (HERE) the F only has either Owners Manuals or Operating Manuals depending on your year, If you scroll down for the "J's" the list they specify both a POH and the AFM. You might give Mooney a call and see what they say

Ahhh, I’m starting to see why I’d never heard about an AFM for my airplane...

[DMM]

Correction: Above I provided an excerpt from the TCDS concerning the version of manual required for the M20E by SN.  Mooney rev'd the TCDS and I didn't catch the update.  In my case they corrected the name of the document from Owners Manual to FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual.  This matches the title page of the original document that came with my aircraft.  

TCDS Rev 58

Interior Equipment: (See Note 26):
401. ....... FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual
(a)FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual, dated September 3, 1963,(or November, 1965) for S/N 101 through 831
(b)Super 21 Owners Manual, dated March, 1967 for S/N 832 thru 670062
(c)Mooney Chaparral Owners Manual, 1968 for S/N 690001 thru 690073
(d)Mooney Chaparral Owners Manual dated August 21, 1970, for S/N 700001 thru 700061. S/N 21-0001 thru21-0023 (Aerostar)
(e)Mooney Chaparral Owners Manual dated January 1974, for S/N 21-0024 through 21-1160. See NOTE 2.
(f)Mooney Chaparral Owners Manual dated December 1974, for S/N 21-1161 through 21-1180. See NOTE 2.

OK, enough internet stuff... I'm going to the hangar. 

[carusoam]

Great document research, DMM!

Thanks for sharing the detail...

Have a great flight,

-a-

[steingar]

The only weight and balance info I've ever seen for mine is a sentence in the POH saying not to put the big guys in the back.