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Garmin 430/ADS-B upgrade decision

MinneMooney
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MinneMooney Collaborator

MinneMooney

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I thought I had my mind made up that I would trade in the Garmin 430 non-waas in my ‘65 C and replace it with an Avidyne IFD-440 and then replace my Garmin 327 transponder with an L3 NGT-9000 (since they have been offering a pretty good package deal). I am having second thoughts, however, as I try to weigh all of the factors of cost, utility, repair costs, resale, etc.  plus, now it sounds like the L3 could be orphaned? 

My cheapest choice is an Avidyne IFD-440 and a Skybeacon (and then a portable box for ADS-B in). The most expensive is Garmin 650 and Garmin 345. I like the idea of an integrated ADS-B in & out, but don’t think it’s worth the additional $6000 it would cost to have everything panel mounted. I fly occasional IFR, but not “low IFR”.

MIm20c Grand Master

MIm20c

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You could probably upgrade to a 430w/330es for around $3500 (or $6k with the 440) plus a few hours in the shop.  Personally I’d much rather have a ES transponder vs a repeater. 

jaylw314 Grand Master

jaylw314

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29 minutes ago, MinneMooney said:

I thought I had my mind made up that I would trade in the Garmin 430 non-waas in my ‘65 C and replace it with an Avidyne IFD-440 and then replace my Garmin 327 transponder with an L3 NGT-9000 (since they have been offering a pretty good package deal). I am having second thoughts, however, as I try to weigh all of the factors of cost, utility, repair costs, resale, etc.  plus, now it sounds like the L3 could be orphaned? 

My cheapest choice is an Avidyne IFD-440 and a Skybeacon (and then a portable box for ADS-B in). The most expensive is Garmin 650 and Garmin 345. I like the idea of an integrated ADS-B in & out, but don’t think it’s worth the additional $6000 it would cost to have everything panel mounted. I fly occasional IFR, but not “low IFR”.

IIRC, the Skybeacon requires no external GPS, so that decision is independent of whether you change your GPS or not.

Schinderhannes Experienced

Schinderhannes

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1 minute ago, MIm20c said:

You could probably upgrade to a 430w/330es for around $3500 (or $6k with the 440) plus a few hours in the shop.  Personally I’d much rather have a ES transponder vs a repeater. 

Isn't a WAAS upgrade for the 430 closer to $3500 by itself and a used 330ES around $1800? 

MIm20c Grand Master

MIm20c

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48 minutes ago, Schinderhannes said:

Isn't a WAAS upgrade for the 430 closer to $3500 by itself and a used 330ES around $1800? 

Haven’t look lately but I always figure a 2k delta between the waas/non waas and about 1.5k between a 327/330 and a 330es.  I would never spend the long dollar to upgrade a current unit.  

bradp Grand Master

bradp

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The used prices on the non-WAAS 430s were better two years ago but I bought a used 430W and sold my old one - price delta was $1500 that way.  I bought a used 330ES for $1500. I got the $500 rebate.  

MinneMooney Collaborator

MinneMooney

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22 minutes ago, rbridges said:

I don't know your financial situation, but I would trade the 430 for the 440 in lieu of the waas upgrade.  

Trading the GNS-430 for an IFD-440 would result in a WAAS upgrade. I am still leaning this way and then opting for the Skybeacon since I can’t justify the cost difference to install a panel mounted transponder. Since I have a perfectly good transponder, I would hate to sink another $6000 just to get ads-b.

Davidv Mentor

Davidv

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I’m getting a GNX-375 for 8500 installed so I’ll have ADS-B in/out and WAAS GPS.  Since I’m replacing a KLN-94 and KT-76A it was the right move for me.

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flyingcheesehead Collaborator

flyingcheesehead

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1 hour ago, MinneMooney said:

Since I have a perfectly good transponder, I would hate to sink another $6000 just to get ads-b.

What is a "perfectly good transponder" though?

If it's something like a GTX 327 that's modern and pretty much has all the functionality of any of the new stuff like the GTX 345 (pushbutton entry, timers etc) then yeah, keep it.

If it's an old Narco that just happens to be working at this particular instant - Well, that's not "perfectly good", that's "circling the drain."

In aviation, "cheap" usually isn't. 

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rbridges Grand Master

rbridges

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2 hours ago, MinneMooney said:

Trading the GNS-430 for an IFD-440 would result in a WAAS upgrade. I am still leaning this way and then opting for the Skybeacon since I can’t justify the cost difference to install a panel mounted transponder. Since I have a perfectly good transponder, I would hate to sink another $6000 just to get ads-b.

Exactly. Put the money towards something more modern. Better display, faster processor, etc. 

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NJMac Mentor

NJMac

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 plus, now it sounds like the L3 could be orphaned? 


Mind expanding on that? I've got the L3 transponder and 440 and really like it. Didnt know L3 was going to leave me alone on an otherwise nice date we're having.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

clh Community Regular

clh

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presuming you are a CB like me.....    First, ask yourself if you really need WAAS for the GPS functions.  If you are not instrument rated and have no intention to become... I wouldn't upgrade.

If you just need ADSB, and have a good fairly new transponder, go with the $2k solution.  I had an old,  obsolete GPS, an even older transponder,  a piecemeal audio panel and intercom.  So it made sense for me to put in a lot of new $tuff. 

The avidyne GPS is pretty neat....

 

flyingcheesehead Collaborator

flyingcheesehead

Posted
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6 hours ago, NJMac said:

Mind expanding on that? I've got the L3 transponder and 440 and really like it. Didnt know L3 was going to leave me alone on an otherwise nice date we're having.

 

There's some more details in a thread I saw on BeechTalk... Sales is being handled by Avidyne, most of the support people that people were used to talking to are gone or have been transferred elsewhere within the company, and the development on correcting the issue that L3 had with GPS rollover is being handled by the group that works on their airliner avionics.

2 hours ago, clh said:

presuming you are a CB like me.....    First, ask yourself if you really need WAAS for the GPS functions.  If you are not instrument rated and have no intention to become... I wouldn't upgrade.

On a Mooney - I would upgrade, unless you're both planning on never being instrument rated AND never selling the airplane. Since Mooneys are traveling airplanes, the vast majority of people who buy them are, or want to become, instrument rated. Not having a WAAS GPS is going to make it increasingly difficult to sell.

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MinneMooney Collaborator

MinneMooney

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I do want to upgrade to a waas gps to be able to fly LPV approaches. My 27 year old son and I both have our instrument ratings and he is working on his commercial. He is thinking of pursuing a career in flying and I wanted the Mooney to give him a platform to economically build time. So, I’d like it to be capable, but I don’t want to spend a ton to get there. Also, I have to believe that a non-waas Garmin 430 will never be worth more on a trade in than they are right now.

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Igor_U Mentor

Igor_U

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It all depends of your panel setup and $$ you want to spend...

You just might consider Avridine IFD540 + remote Transponder that Lafaette avionics is selling for $12900 or so. Same harness and would take a space of your Garmin 430 and transponder. It would still need some installation time, though...

 

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MIm20c Grand Master

MIm20c

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1 hour ago, Igor_U said:

You just might consider Avridine IFD540 + remote Transponder that Lafaette avionics is selling for $12900 or so. Same harness and would take a space of your Garmin 430 and transponder. It would still need some installation time, though...

I agree with this. I was planning on a 540/max upgrade/stec upgrade but the other plane is burning through money faster then I can toss it in the fireplace. 

Jesse Saint Enthusiast

Jesse Saint

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I would recommend you upgrade to an Avidyne IFD540, which includes a free remote ADS-B Out transponder through he end of May at least. The cost is $2,500 more than the 440, but the free transponder makes it almost he same price. Sell your 327 for a couple of hundred $ and you’re not much different than the 440 and the Skybeacon, and this gives you a big screen WAAS gps. 

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MinneMooney Collaborator

MinneMooney

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I do have a GTX-327. That’s why I hesitate to spend a lot to replace it just to get ads-b out without “in”. I wish Avidyne offered a remote ads-b out + in that could display traffic and weather on the IFD-540. I know there is a package deal for the Avidyne + Lynx NGT-9000 but I’m just not sold on the Lynx. Just having ads-b out doesn’t float my boat (or fly my flivver??). I really like seeing traffic on ads-b in and think it would be really helpful to also see it on the Avidyne. 

gsxrpilot Grand Master

gsxrpilot

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I've got the IFD540 with AXP322R (transponder/ADSB out) and SkyTrax100 (ADSB in)

Now that the Lynx NGT-9000 can be had in a remote version, I would love to trade my AXP322R AND the SkyTrax100 for one. The SkyTrax100 is only 978MHz and the NGT-9000 is dual band in and out. 

I do love having a remote transponder. It's something that is typically only touched once or less in flight. So I like not having it cluttering up my panel.

My current setup is almost as good as it could be, the NGT-9000 would put it right at the top.

Just my $0.02

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