G3X Touch Certified

[Cruiser]

With all the recent talk about familiarity of equipment operation and understand of how to interact with each. Why would anyone want to equip a plane with a backup system that is operationally different than the primary?

i.e. the G3x requires a G5 for backup? How confusing. In an emergency I not only have to manage the failures I need to completely change my interaction with the equipment that is suppose to keep me safe?

Sounds dangerous.

[toto]

22 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

• The hardware/video is legacy quality. "If you want the new modern video resolution, buy the TXi"

I was very curious about this, and afaict the screen dimensions and resolution are identical. But I dunno whether the TXi uses newer/better technology.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/682215/pn/G3X-TCERT-01#specs

 

txi-onesheet.pdf

[johncuyle]

10 minutes ago, Cruiser said:

With all the recent talk about familiarity of equipment operation and understand of how to interact with each. Why would anyone want to equip a plane with a backup system that is operationally different than the primary?

i.e. the G3x requires a G5 for backup? How confusing. In an emergency I not only have to manage the failures I need to completely change my interaction with the equipment that is suppose to keep me safe?

Sounds dangerous.

Probably not as dangerous as losing your AI in IMC and needing to keep it shiny side up using just the TC and altimeter.  Dangerous is relative.  And if you have two G3X screens and one fails, it will fail over to split screen PFD/MFD.  They were really clear about that in the webinar.  So if you went dual 7" you'd need both to fail before you were down to just the G5.

[eman1200]

I was very curious about this, and afaict the screen dimensions and resolution are identical. But I dunno whether the TXi uses newer/better technology.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/682215/pn/G3X-TCERT-01#specs
 
txi-onesheet.pdf

It does. They mentioned it on the call. But ‘legacy’ here is
I like the G3X but hate that my aspen can’t be a legal backup. Would hate to lose the aspen in place of a G5, that’s a step down.

[DXB]

14 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

• Backup instruments are required regardless of one or two screens installed. This backup can be the G5, but regardless, a backup is required.
• No legacy autopilot support for anything other than heading bug. Fully coupled approaches will require the GFC500.
• No Navigator support other than Garmin.
• No Audio panel support other than Garmin.
• No Transponder support other than Garmin.
• Certain nice Garmin features like Database Concierge, and a few other features, not supported on the G3X.
• The hardware/video is legacy quality. "If you want the new modern video resolution, buy the TXi"

Just like the GFC500 is a great new autopilot, but it's not quite the GFC600 level. The G3X is nice, but it's not TXi level and not meant to compete.

I believe the Aspen competes very well with the top of the line TXi in everything except the large screen. And as @Cruiser said, to my eye, a lot of that screen is wasted real estate. If I was going G3X, I'd prefer two 7" screens anyway. To my eye, they're a better use of space. With two Aspen screens I have full revision and redundancy. With two G3X screens you have two screens. But you still require a third screen that is only used if something fails. With the Aspen, the MFD is my backup. If the PFD fails, the MFD becomes the PFD. And in an emergency situation, I don't need an MFD, I can certainly use an iPad for that, or my panel mounted GPS is also effectively an MFD. 

I've never like the idea of instruments in my panel that are ONLY there incase of a failure. I'd like them all do have a useful function.

Anyway, just my $0.02. I've had a full helping of crow as well, and was about to call the avionics shop and cancel my Aspen MFD order. But after sitting through the webinar, and reading everything Trek posted on BeechTalk, I'm very comfortable with my decision to move forward with the Aspens. 

Thanks for the thoughtful post and carefully considering the issues for other Aspen owners who are about to upgrade.  I'm already scheduled to get the PFD Max upgrade near the end of this year and was even thinking of adding a second one at the same time instead of the currently planned G5 backup. This Garmin hardware release initially made me wonder if I'm foolishly investing in a soon-to-be-defunct company's system. But Aspen still seems to have some clear advantages that you outline, not the least of which is willingness to play with numerous autopilots, including old existing models and an appealingly modern one that costs less than half what the GFC500 costs after install  (i.e. TruTrak).  That alone will be reason enough for many  budget minded folks to skip the new Garmin offerings and consider a single panel Aspen pfd, particularly if they drop the price a tad. Also, I suspect almost all the people who currently fly behind the numerous Aspen installs out there really like them and will be much more likely to upgrade than scrap them and deal with the complexity, expense, and usage learning curve of an all new install.  I do hope they are hard at work on a larger, touch screen product though in order to stay competitive for the long haul.  

[toto]

So I'm a little surprised that the G3X doesn't support the GAD43e. Is the lack of legacy AP integration a limitation unique to the certified version? Or does every experimental owner have to use a Garmin autopilot if they want the G3X?

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, toto said:

I was very curious about this, and afaict the screen dimensions and resolution are identical. But I dunno whether the TXi uses newer/better technology.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/682215/pn/G3X-TCERT-01#specs

 

txi-onesheet.pdf 398.7 kB · 2 downloads

They said in the webinar the screen detail was different because of new screen tech in the TXi. They said (head of Garmin aftermarket leadership) said the G3X was in fact 5-6 year old technology that they just got certified. The TXi is in fact brighter , better res, and 5 year newer processors vs the G3X.

1 hour ago, toto said:

So I'm a little surprised that the G3X doesn't support the GAD43e. Is the lack of legacy AP integration a limitation unique to the certified version? Or does every experimental owner have to use a Garmin autopilot if they want the G3X?

I have been on the phone with my avionics guy several times today and yesterday since the announcement. This single item is preventing me from changing my order (with a week to go) on a TXi install. It is very hard for me to spend big money to rip out and install a new autopilot just to save like $5-$6,000 on the screen. Now if my KFC 150 was not working or been less than stellar since acquisition (knocking wood) I might reconsider. GFC will also talk digitally to the TXi and will always in the future.

If they added GAD43e support, my direction would be different.

For me, I like the bigger screen because I can split mode an enroute map or chart and get the “dual” 7” screen resolutions on one display with tons of info without having two physical screens and the SVT on the full screen is amazing. I, too, have to have the G5 as backup. 

[McMooney]

grrrrrr damn garmin gonna make me spend my money.

[alextstone]

12 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

• Backup instruments are required regardless of one or two screens installed. This backup can be the G5, but regardless, a backup is required.
• No legacy autopilot support for anything other than heading bug. Fully coupled approaches will require the GFC500.
• No Navigator support other than Garmin.
• No Audio panel support other than Garmin.
• No Transponder support other than Garmin.
• Certain nice Garmin features like Database Concierge, and a few other features, not supported on the G3X.
• The hardware/video is legacy quality. "If you want the new modern video resolution, buy the TXi"

Just like the GFC500 is a great new autopilot, but it's not quite the GFC600 level. The G3X is nice, but it's not TXi level and not meant to compete.

I believe the Aspen competes very well with the top of the line TXi in everything except the large screen. And as @Cruiser said, to my eye, a lot of that screen is wasted real estate. If I was going G3X, I'd prefer two 7" screens anyway. To my eye, they're a better use of space. With two Aspen screens I have full revision and redundancy. With two G3X screens you have two screens. But you still require a third screen that is only used if something fails. With the Aspen, the MFD is my backup. If the PFD fails, the MFD becomes the PFD. And in an emergency situation, I don't need an MFD, I can certainly use an iPad for that, or my panel mounted GPS is also effectively an MFD. 

I've never like the idea of instruments in my panel that are ONLY there incase of a failure. I'd like them all do have a useful function.

Anyway, just my $0.02. I've had a full helping of crow as well, and was about to call the avionics shop and cancel my Aspen MFD order. But after sitting through the webinar, and reading everything Trek posted on BeechTalk, I'm very comfortable with my decision to move forward with the Aspens. 

Thanks @gsxrpilot, for the detailed response!  I'm with you on keeping and upgraded the Aspen(s) vs switching to Garmin. I just do not have the money to throw at the panel to convert to a full Garmin (in the case of the G3X) suite and if I did, I'm not sure I could justify the cost delta.  I previously owned two other G1000 equipped airplanes and I really liked the way they performed and displayed data.  However, being locked into one brand of equipment and faced with increasingly expensive or non-existent upgrades (non-WAAS to WAAS for example) are not features that I can live with.   

As an aside, this is by far the best forum I've ever participated in!  I hope I can begin to contribute something useful in return for the help I have received here.  Thanks all!

 

Alex

 

[rbridges]

13 hours ago, alextstone said:

I’m curios, what questions were relevant to you?   I’ve got one Aspen too and I’m considering upgrading to Max and the second Aspen MFD / backup...

If you do the primary MAX upgrade, might as well go the MFD1000MAX route.  You get to dump your vacuum system.

[alextstone]

1 minute ago, rbridges said:

If you do the primary MAX upgrade, might as well go the MFD1000MAX route.  You get to dump your vacuum system.

@rbridges, I plan to do exactly that although the vacuum is already long gone in my plane, thank goodness.  (Backup EAI)

[McMooney]

9 hours ago, McMooney said:

grrrrrr damn garmin gonna make me spend my money.

MAN garmin is really pushing my buttons this week, now they have new less expensive gps navigators.  gnx375 to replace my stratus, TEMPTING. 

[Bryan]

I have a buddy with a C172 with an old Apollo GPS and narco transponder. The GNX175 is perfect for him. He gets ADSB In/Out, IFR WAAS Moving Map GPS, and a flight streaming to his iPad.  Also, if he installs a CDI he can do instrument training or even fly LPV IFR.

Good move Garmin. Any VFR pilot that does not have ADSB yet but with decent COMMs should seriously look at this.

[John Car]

Here is a nice layout with two iPad Pros connected to the GNX 375.  Also using the 2nd Garmin Display.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Here is a nice layout with two iPad Pros connected to the GNX 375.  Also using the 2nd Garmin Display.

For your 3rd scenario I would move the GFC 500 over left of the radio stack, add an Aera 660 as a poor mans mfd and make one of the 650s a 750, lose the 3rd GPS.


Tom

[ArtVandelay]

BTW, can the Touch be flush mounted?


Tom

[smccray]

37 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

BTW, can the Touch be flush mounted?


Tom

The G3X is pretty low profile.  It's not like the G5 that sticks out from the panel.

Having flown the TXI, I wouldn't flush mount it given the option.  I use the edge of the screen to stabilize my hand when using the touch screen.

[Ragsf15e]

22 hours ago, johncuyle said:

Probably not as dangerous as losing your AI in IMC and needing to keep it shiny side up using just the TC and altimeter.  Dangerous is relative.  And if you have two G3X screens and one fails, it will fail over to split screen PFD/MFD.  They were really clear about that in the webinar.  So if you went dual 7" you'd need both to fail before you were down to just the G5.

Doesn’t the dual screen setup work off one GSU 25 ADHRS though?  So the screens back each other up if a screen fails, but you could still be on the G5 real quick if the AHRS were to fail?  I may be misreading that though...

Edited March 27, 2019 by Ragsf15e

[bradp]

One of the best parts of the g3x and hdx is you can view electronic presentations of round gauges.  Did they keep that here? 

[eman1200]

49 minutes ago, bradp said:

One of the best parts of the g3x and hdx are you can view electronic presentations of round gauges.  Did they keep that here? 

yes

[aviatoreb]

so will the second hand market on 20 year old used GNS430's finally plummet to their rightful low value?

[carusoam]

@John Car

Salesman of the Quarter award!

I’ve never felt like spending so much on Big G and Apple equipment as I do right now...

 

To get the Sales guy of the Year award, you still need to convert the want, to actual sales... that’s gonna be a bit more difficult... 

 

Having read the pirep on the G500 AP...  

SnF is going to be a great show...

Best regards,

-a-

[MIm20c]

59 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

so will the second hand market on 20 year old used GNS430's finally plummet to their rightful low value?

If anything I feel like the 430w is as important as ever. A single “inexpensive” 10 inch g3x will provide access to a large vibrant mfd display, two way communication between 430 and EFB, bargain priced access to XM/adsb weather and traffic. The 430w staples the system down with LPV approaches, top quality nav/com, and a durable design that has stood the test of time. 

G3x/430w/330es/50r - IMO a powerful combo for another 20 years. 

[toto]

7 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

If anything I feel like the 430w is as important as ever. A single “inexpensive” 10 inch g3x will provide access to a large vibrant mfd display, two way communication between 430 and EFB, bargain priced access to XM/adsb weather and traffic. The 430w staples the system down with LPV approaches, top quality nav/com, and a durable design that has stood the test of time. 

G3x/430w/330es/50r - IMO a powerful combo for another 20 years. 

But doesn't the G3X effectively eliminate coupled LPV approaches (even though the 430w can draw them)?

I'm still trying to figure out the legacy AP approach. Would you keep a separate analog CDI?

[gsxrpilot]

4 minutes ago, toto said:

But doesn't the G3X effectively eliminate coupled LPV approaches (even though the 430w can draw them)?

I'm still trying to figure out the legacy AP approach. Would you keep a separate analog CDI?

Yeah I think he left out a couple of pieces.

G3x/430w.330es/50r/GFC500/G5

Without the autopilot, you're not getting the full package, and to go IFR you'll have to have the G5 as well.