Insurance up 20%

[Hank]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

If they had to pass a standardized written test like private pilots do; I wonder how many could pass.

-Robert

Certainly not many from the current crop in DC!

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I once heard a politician promise if he was elected to help everyone achieve an above-average income.    Sadly, there were neither laughter nor questions about this . . . . 

And, that's how these folks get elected.

[Hank]

Just now, PT20J said:

And, that's how these folks get elected.

So, it's our fault that these clowns are in office? I voted against many of them . . . . Guess I was outnumbered by the nitwits.  

[PT20J]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

So, it's our fault that these clowns are in office? I voted against many of them . . . . Guess I was outnumbered by the nitwits.  

Of course -- that's how democracy works. The problem is that one person's clown is another person's genius. 

[Danb]

Problem both sides are deficient. TERM LIMITS

[MikeOH]

3 hours ago, Danb said:

Problem both sides are deficient. TERM LIMITS

This needs a couple million likes...the forum software doesn't seem to let me, however!

I doubt our Founding Fathers every saw politics as a CAREER!

Edited May 7, 2020 by MikeOH

[chrisk]

On 5/5/2020 at 7:43 PM, PT20J said:

Every so often I see a study where something like 70% of drivers think their driving is above average. I wonder if it’s the same with pilots and flying?

Skip

I know I am better then some pilots. One in particular in a hangar next to mine.  Horrible ADM, and he does not have the skills to back it up. The last time I saw him he was putting the plane in the hangar and some part of it (maybe wing tip) hit the hangar.   He's generally worth watching when he is around.  That said, I've met plenty of better pilots than me.

[Parker_Woodruff]

On 5/5/2020 at 9:46 PM, RobertGary1 said:

I guess be happy you can get it. A friend of mine owns a flight school. He just bought a new plane but was told no one is writing new policies for commercial during the virus. 
 

-Robert

Really?  I've received about 3 flight school quotes in the past week.  Rates are up, but they're quoting.  Have him call me if he's having trouble.  The underwriters are a little slower as they're working from home.  But quotes come in the next day instead of same day.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, PT20J said:

And, that's how these folks get elected.

Sadly the electorate are gullible enough to believe what they hear without a moment’s critical thought.

Clarence

[RobertGary1]

36 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Really?  I've received about 3 flight school quotes in the past week.  Rates are up, but they're quoting.  Have him call me if he's having trouble.  The underwriters are a little slower as they're working from home.  But quotes come in the next day instead of same day.

It was odd. He was able to renew his policy but not add an additional airplane. They told him they should be back in a couple weeks.

-Robert

[hoot777]

I am with Global. USAIG would have given me same policy with smooth limits for about $2500 .  I hear that most will nor write a retractable policy now after you turn seventy.  A friend went to Avemco and got insured.  My agent is Travers and they said it’s the industry after a few years of big losses but still irks me.

[Parker_Woodruff]

On 6/7/2020 at 7:31 AM, hoot777 said:

 I hear that most will nor write a retractable policy now after you turn seventy.  A friend went to Avemco and got insured.  

For new business there are certainly less carriers that will do it, but it can be done.

Avemco has been doing it for any age if no losses in the last 3 years.

[JamesMooney]

First time poster, long time reader :)

I'm starting on my first Mooney journey. Looking to buy a M20E/F/J probably in around 6 months. Doing all my homework in advance.

Previously owned a PA28 a few years ago. Have been renting since then.

Part of my homework, I've been looking at estimates for insurance. Just received a quote from BWI for $3k. That feels excessively high compared to the #s I'm seeing here and elsewhere.

I'm 450 hours PP with IR. 25 hours retract. 0 hours in type. No accidents or issues with insurance in the past. The quote was based on a 1979 M20F (no tail # - just an estimate), hull $75k, $1m coverage.

Would welcome thoughts from MS on whether $3k makes sense for first year of having a Mooney?

[xavierde]

As a datapoint, I ended up at $3.5k for a 252, hull insured for $100k, PP and 0h retract.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Mr. Canuck.

Which end of the great white North are you going to be in?

First year costs an extra 1amu compared to the rest...

Ask @Parker_Woodruff regarding the details...

Parker was a long time MSer before he got involved in insurance for a long time...    

Best regards,

-a-

[JamesMooney]

Thanks @carusoam for the welcome. I'm originally Toronto, but now living in Washington DC area.

Duly noted on the +1amu for year 1. (That still puts the quote at ~2-2.5amu for year 2 onward... feels high compared to others.) I've asked the insurance provider to unpack the quote a bit and give some indication of what's driving it. Stay tuned for the answer.

No doubt I'll be sharing with this group some questions about hangars (DC area), brokers and PPI A&Ps/MSCs, etc. I'm VERY excited to re-enter the ownership world and to move from Piper (where I have a soft spot still) to Mooney. Great group here. Thanks.

Meanwhile, if other MSC folks have other datapoints to share, i'd be very interested and appreciative!

[carusoam]

A good portion of the insurance is to cover the humans...

Another portion is to cover the plane...

A third portion is to cover the wacky seasonal price increase... somebody reported a 50% increase for them a few hours ago...

The value of the plane can make a good bit of difference...

Do you have a budgeted figure for the Mooney you intend to purchase?

Have no fear... that soft spot will exist in your photo album for a long time... much of your experience will transition directly to your new ride...

Transition training is available for the other part that didn’t come from the other plane...

Speaking of MSCs... Service Centers... there is one in the DC area... on a really short runway for a new Mooniac...

@Seth is a good guy in that area to ask questions to...

Best regards,

-a-

[xcrmckenna]

Well with the majority of flying shut down for almost three months and things just now slowly coming back that must mean there have been a steep decrease in claims. And should factor out by the end of the year so we should ALL expect a lower premium next renewal....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

There is a technical name for that too, Charles...

Insurance pay back, dividend, or something like that...

USAA has that available for the car insurance...

Best regards,

-a-

[xcrmckenna]

There is a technical name for that too, Charles...
Insurance pay back, dividend, or something like that...
USAA has that available for the car insurance...
Best regards,
-a-

Lol, yeah I won’t be holding my breath:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[toto]

On 5/2/2020 at 9:04 AM, Parker_Woodruff said:

You’re fortunate when your expiration date was. A lot of rate increases have been added since then. We’ll see what this year brings. 

Is there any reason to think that rates will go down from here instead of up?  I have a policy that renews in late August..  do the tea leaves say that I should submit paperwork now, or wait a month? 

[59Moonster]

 @Parker_Woodruff What are the milestone needed to get the next insurance break? I've heard getting IFR, 300 hours, 800 hours, 100 hours in type. Heard speculation that commercial rating might actually raise rates. More frequent flying hours in a year vs less hours.

What are you seeing?

I would hate to renew my insurance and find out later that if I had a few more hours that it would have saved me even more. 

[Parker_Woodruff]

10 hours ago, toto said:

Is there any reason to think that rates will go down from here instead of up?  I have a policy that renews in late August..  do the tea leaves say that I should submit paperwork now, or wait a month? 

If you're not crossing any major milestones, I'd get the updates in now.  If you expect to get an instrument rating or cross 300, 400, 500, 750, or 1000 total time then I would wait.

Same to be said with RG time and MM time.  Crossing 50 RG, 100 RG, 50 MM, 100 MM could make a difference depending on the carrier.

One carrier has 25 different classifications of pilots...in other words, your results will vary between underwriting companies...

[Parker_Woodruff]

34 minutes ago, 59Moonster said:

 @Parker_Woodruff What are the milestone needed to get the next insurance break? I've heard getting IFR, 300 hours, 800 hours, 100 hours in type. Heard speculation that commercial rating might actually raise rates. More frequent flying hours in a year vs less hours.

What are you seeing?

I would hate to renew my insurance and find out later that if I had a few more hours that it would have saved me even more. 

Unfortunately with an M20A, your insurance options are pretty limited to begin with.  I'd need to know where you currently stand in hours and ratings to provide advice.

Thanks!

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

If you're not crossing any major milestones, I'd get the updates in now.  If you expect to get an instrument rating or cross 300, 400, 500, 750, or 1000 total time then I would wait.

Same to be said with RG time and MM time.  Crossing 50 RG, 100 RG, 50 MM, 100 MM could make a difference depending on the carrier.

One carrier has 25 different classifications of pilots...in other words, your results will vary between underwriting companies...

So pushing 900 hours and 800 MM / RG, there's nothing but another increase, huh? I'll try to get it to you soon.