How much did Mooneys cost new by year/model?

[FloridaMan]

I believe my 1967 was around $30,000 new (or around $250,000 in today's equivalent). New Acclaim Ultras are $801,000 supposedly (or just over $100,000 in 1967), but I thought I read that they were selling for $900,000 in another thread. It got me thinking; how much was a new J or K in 1980? What about 1990? 2000? It seems like the prices have vastly outpaced inflation resulting in a region of reverse-command where economies of scale are lost due to rising prices, which reduce sales, and further reduce economies, raising prices, et cetera. 

Inflation calculator:

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Edited April 18, 2018 by Antares

[Mjknick@gmail.com]

I believe my 1967 was around $30,000 new. New Acclaim Ultras are $801,000 supposedly, but I thought I read that they were selling for $900,000 in another thread. It got me thinking; how much was a new J or K in 1980? What about 1990? 2000? It seems like the prices have vastly outpaced inflation resulting in a region of reverse-command where economies of scale are lost due to rising prices, which reduce sales, and further reduce economies, raising prices, et cetera. 

Lawyers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Igor_U]

For more info you might want to look at this old website:

http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

I don't know how accurate this is but my 1967F would cost $22k-26k. Not really comparable to today's prices as 536 were made and last year Mooney made only few planes...

[ArtVandelay]

Lawyers

Government regs changed as well.

[KSMooniac]

Government regs changed as well.

Mooneys are still built under the old CAR3 certification standards, not Part 23. Some production regs may have been modernized, but mostly due to EPA and OSHA IMO.

IIRC, my '77 J was around $44k new.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[Danb]

My 1988 M20J from the factory which included flight training in San Antonio was about $120,000, traded it in on BravoGX for $150,000 in 2006

My BravoGx with about 50 hours on it from Premiere including 3 days of flight training was $ 465,000,  seems like a bargain compared to the new Acclaims for approx $ 800,000

 

My Dr is in Minnesota picking up his new Cirrus G-6 for $900+

 

Where will it end we wonder why youngunn's can't afford this game

 

 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, KSMooniac said:

Mooneys are still built under the old CAR3 certification standards, not Part 23. Some production regs may have been modernized, but mostly due to EPA and OSHA IMO
 

That's an interesting point, I wonder if there's a way to determine how much the Part 23 standards have changed the cost of aircraft production (if at all). 

[KSMooniac]

I believe Cessna stepped up to Part 23 for the restart in 94...you could look at prices of 172's in 1986 and 1994 for a first estimate. I know at least their new seats were compliant...perhaps the rest of that plane already satisfied the new regs.

The legal stuff is what has hurt the most.... The cost of liability insurance is 15-20% for components, and gets compounded as parts/material pass through each supplier in the chain. It is disgusting, frankly. I suspect half the price of new planes is related to that compounded liability exposure.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[ArtVandelay]

Interesting, if I have a flight review, it’s using current regulations, not what was in effect when I got my certificate. I would have thought while the basic design is grandfathered, things like seat belts, etc would apply to all new designs?

[N601RX]

I have the original paperwork from my 67F. It sold new for $17,500

[Bob_Belville]

My first '66E left the factory at about $18,000. I bought it in '77 for about $18,000. And I sold it in '88 for about $18,000. 

I have a little more than that in my current '66E. 

While the airframe changes have been pretty modest, the panel is many times more valuable.

In the eighties I recall paying $10,000, including R&R, for a factory new IO-360-A1A (Norm Bender). That engine would be over $60,000 today. I doubt that there have been any significant improvements in that old design to justify the increase. I think the recommended TBO did move from 1400 or 1600 to 2000.

[M016576]

33 minutes ago, Danb said:

My 1988 M20J from the factory which included flight training in San Antonio was about $120,000, traded it in on BravoGX for $150,000 in 2006

My BravoGx with about 50 hours on it from Premiere including 3 days of flight training was $ 465,000,  seems like a bargain compared to the new Acclaims for approx $ 800,000

 

My Dr is in Minnesota picking up his new Cirrus G-6 for $900+

 

Where will it end we wonder why youngunn's can't afford this game

 

 

Sad.  Very sad.  But it’s one big self-licking ice cream cone.

the entry price is exceptionally high- the only “youngunn’s” as you put it, that can afford this “game” are generally spending someone else’s money (either as a flight instructor, through loans to attempt a career, government money as a military pilot.... or a trust funder.  Ok, maybe the odd entrepreneur is younger- but anecdotally it seems like those kids are not as interested in flying themselves).

since the entry cost is so high, economies of scale dictates that parts and maintenance cost must also be high.  Thus making overall cost of ownership/operation even higher.  That causes potential buyers to turn away.

which makes the hulls more expensive... since you don’t benefit from economies of scale in mass production due to lack of demand... which makes it harder to support the airframes- so cost of maintenance and fuel goes up... and so on and so forth.

it doesn’t help that “youngunns” can get the same “fix” from flying from modern video games and simulators... for a fraction of the cost.  Heck- I read that Millenials are at an all time low for CAR ownership.  Let alone airplanes..... so the draw of working on something mechanical doesn’t seem to be as attractive either.

 

To get GA back up and running, the cost MUST come down.  Until then, it’s literally a “Kingdom” of the “landed elite” and the “rif raf serfs” (of which I’m one, sadly).

[Hank]

1 minute ago, Bob_Belville said:

In the eighties I recall paying $10,000, including R&R, for a factory new IO-360-A1A (Norm Bender). That engine would be over $60,000 today.

In late 1989, I bought a loaded 1988 Honda Accord for $10,000. A one-year old model now would be in the low-to-mid-20s, while the engine is almost three times that much.

[KSMooniac]

Interesting, if I have a flight review, it’s using current regulations, not what was in effect when I got my certificate. I would have thought while the basic design is grandfathered, things like seat belts, etc would apply to all new designs?

It's all negotiated between the manufacturer and the FAA. The 737 is grandfathered to the 60's, although some new regs have been incorporated at each refresh (in the 90's & 2010's).

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[KSMooniac]

Forgot to mention the old CAR3 standards (almost all of our legacy GA fleet!) didn't require a fatigue analysis and airframe test. Now it is required, and of course it is very expensive since it is a long duration test.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[buddy]

My 1980 M20J went for 100K new with the King digital package including the kns80 and century 41 autopilot, no HSI or speed breaks.

[Cruiser]

have a look at this......

 

[Piloto]

12 hours ago, Antares said:

I believe my 1967 was around $30,000 new (or around $250,000 in today's equivalent). New Acclaim Ultras are $801,000 supposedly (or just over $100,000 in 1967), but I thought I read that they were selling for $900,000 in another thread. It got me thinking; how much was a new J or K in 1980? What about 1990? 2000? It seems like the prices have vastly outpaced inflation resulting in a region of reverse-command where economies of scale are lost due to rising prices, which reduce sales, and further reduce economies, raising prices, et cetera. 

Inflation calculator:

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Woow!!!! for $900,000 you can get 200 first class round trips to Europe and no need to worry about tie downs and pee bottles.

José

[ArtVandelay]

I wonder what it cost for just the avionics? At least for that part of the plane we have modern technology.

[BDPetersen]

The advertised price for a ‘65 C was $15,600. Working for a distributor at that time, I’m aware of one being sold under 14K.

[mike_elliott]

9 hours ago, Piloto said:

Woow!!!! for $900,000 you can get 200 first class round trips to Europe and no need to worry about tie downs and pee bottles.

José

Trying to justify Mooney is charging more today for an Acclaim than what inflation says it should be based on your 1965 E model is rather silly. They are completely different products. Mooney spends well over 100K for the Garmin NXI boxes alone or 20+ first class round trips to Europe. Continentals chunk of the price is in excess of 100K also. 
Obviously, new Ultras and Acclaims are not for those that are not in an economic position to fly one, just as the SR22T is not, or the Cezzzna's, TBM's etc.

That said, Mooney sold 2 the first 2 days of SNF, and there will be more orders follow from the event. These gentlemen who purchased them are not dumb, nor ignorant of pricing and Mooneys. 

IF someone spent 900K on a new Acclaim, I am unaware of it. Can the person claiming this step up and let us know who? Yes they are high priced, but they are less than a Cirrus. Unfortunately, like many of you, they are out of my price range, but thats my problem, not Mooney's.

[M016576]

5 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Trying to justify Mooney is charging more today for an Acclaim than what inflation says it should be based on your 1965 E model is rather silly. They are completely different products. Mooney spends well over 100K for the Garmin NXI boxes alone or 20+ first class round trips to Europe. Continentals chunk of the price is in excess of 100K also. 
Obviously, new Ultras and Acclaims are not for those that are not in an economic position to fly one, just as the SR22T is not, or the Cezzzna's, TBM's etc.

That said, Mooney sold 2 the first 2 days of SNF, and there will be more orders follow from the event. These gentlemen who purchased them are not dumb, nor ignorant of pricing and Mooneys. 

IF someone spent 900K on a new Acclaim, I am unaware of it. Can the person claiming this step up and let us know who? Yes they are high priced, but they are less than a Cirrus. Unfortunately, like many of you, they are out of my price range, but thats my problem, not Mooney's.

Actually.. it’s GA’s problem.  If we want GA to survive in the way we know it- we’re going to need more than just an exclusively small, super rich group of folks to keep it going.  And sadly, it seems like the numbers keep getting worse every year.

[bonal]

1 hour ago, M016576 said:

Actually.. it’s GA’s problem.  If we want GA to survive in the way we know it- we’re going to need more than just an exclusively small, super rich group of folks to keep it going.  And sadly, it seems like the numbers keep getting worse every year.

Sadly I think the cost of ownership is the least of GA's problem.  IMHO there just isn't the interest in flying as there was 30 plus years ago.  GA has been on life support for a long time so for many of us it's been a long time since it was the way we know it.  I'm just thankful that I had the interest as a kid growing up and that it never left me as an adult.  I can tell you without a doubt after seeing that new Ultra at Paso Robles and then it's flight on Flight aware if I had the means there is no way I would even think of a Cirrus as a choice That Ultra is a beautiful machine I think they will be very strong in the market as things ramp up. And one never knows it could just be a matter of six numbers played.  We can all dream.

[mike_elliott]

39 minutes ago, bonal said:

Sadly I think the cost of ownership is the least of GA's problem.  IMHO there just isn't the interest in flying as there was 30 plus years ago.  GA has been on life support for a long time so for many of us it's been a long time since it was the way we know it.  I'm just thankful that I had the interest as a kid growing up and that it never left me as an adult.  I can tell you without a doubt after seeing that new Ultra at Paso Robles and then it's flight on Flight aware if I had the means there is no way I would even think of a Cirrus as a choice That Ultra is a beautiful machine I think they will be very strong in the market as things ramp up. And one never knows it could just be a matter of six numbers played.  We can all dream.

Agreed. When you fly in an Ultra, you will see just how much nicer they are than the nicest of C's etc. and thus far nicer than a CEzzna or a Cirri. They are that much nicer than  a 2016 Acclaim or Ovation! Garmin got it right with the NXI, Mooney got it right everywhere else.

GA has NEVER been a poor mans game and to wish it were is only a dream one has to have the best and spend the less. Unfortunately, It wont happen. Continually we see people wanting Mooney to make a 200K J model. Unfortunately, it wont happen. If Mooney could, they would.  Back when a 1967 F model was 28AMU's, you could spend that much on a VERY nice house, even in the Bay area. Now, you can spend 700K on a very nice house except in the Bay area  or that much on a new Ultra. 

The onerous is on us to be able to afford GA. We have to use our talents to make the sheckles required for entry, not bellyache about the entry fee. Mr. Market and competition keeps the prices as low as they can be and still have a viable company producing the finest GA piston planes made.

[Marauder]

Somewhere in my pile of papers I have the original bill of sale for my airplane. I think it was $32k for a 1975 F.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro