New Aircraft Circular on Traffic Patterns

[mooneyflyer]

Yay, I’m free.  Midfield entries are A-OK.

Phil

 

[larryb]

I always prefer the alternate method. I really don't like the 270 degree turn, and the lack of visibility that results, that close to the airport.

[kris_adams]

Good news!  I too prefer the alternate method in this situation...I'm good with flying the 45 entry to downwind but the midfield cross is a lot easier depending on traffic/winds/runways.

[jaylw314]

  On 4/9/2018 at 5:51 PM, larryb said:

I always prefer the alternate method. I really don't like the 270 degree turn, and the lack of visibility that results, that close to the airport.

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starting your turn 2 miles out from the airport should keep you well clear of the pattern, and by the time you're back on the 45 deg entry, you're still far away enough to have a good view of the whole pattern.  I've seen people do a 270 deg turn right when crossing the pattern, that seems like a bad idea all around.

The suggestion is that the midfield entry should yield to the preferred 45 deg entry, but I wonder how the heck you're supposed to do that?  You're at pattern altitude, so it's not like you can yield to the right--that puts you head on with anyone else in the pattern.  Climbing or descending would be your only realistic option.  It kind of pisses me off that people do the midfield entry when I'm on the 45--I generally circle away from the pattern because I know I'd put the other person in a box.  I've never had somebody on the midfield entry give way to me on the 45, presumably not because they are rude, but they simply have nowhere else to go if the timing is wrong.

Rant over, sorry.  Go ahead and do the midfield entry when you're confident nobody else is in the area, but if there's any doubt the standard entry is still safer for all I think.  I should add that I fly out of a bunch of uncontrolled fields, and I see people do the midfield entry all the time even when there are several people in the pattern.

[jetdriven]

  On 4/9/2018 at 5:51 PM, larryb said:

I always prefer the alternate method. I really don't like the 270 degree turn, and the lack of visibility that results, that close to the airport.

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And the 270 degrees of right turns and maneuvering, descending 500 feet, and the 2-3 extra radio calls, all in the very close vicinity of the airport.  I can see the 45 entry from that side of the airport, but the midfield or normal crosswind entry is far simper and I think, safer too.

[jetdriven]

  On 4/9/2018 at 6:22 PM, jaylw314 said:

starting your turn 2 miles out from the airport should keep you well clear of the pattern, and by the time you're back on the 45 deg entry, you're still far away enough to have a good view of the whole pattern.  I've seen people do a 270 deg turn right when crossing the pattern, that seems like a bad idea all around.

The suggestion is that the midfield entry should yield to the preferred 45 deg entry, but I wonder how the heck you're supposed to do that?  You're at pattern altitude, so it's not like you can yield to the right--that puts you head on with anyone else in the pattern.  Climbing or descending would be your only realistic option.  It kind of pisses me off that people do the midfield entry when I'm on the 45--I generally circle away from the pattern because I know I'd put the other person in a box.  I've never had somebody on the midfield entry give way to me on the 45, presumably not because they are rude, but they simply have nowhere else to go if the timing is wrong.

Rant over, sorry.  Go ahead and do the midfield entry when you're confident nobody else is in the area, but if there's any doubt the standard entry is still safer for all I think.  I should add that I fly out of a bunch of uncontrolled fields, and I see people do the midfield entry all the time even when there are several people in the pattern.

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they should listen to the radio if there are 4 planes in the pattern the only curteous thing to do is either the overhead to 45 degree, or even better, just pass 4-5 miles off the end of the runway and fly around the airport to join the 45.  But yes the midfield crossing point is kind of boxed in with regards to maneuvering.  Dont attempt it if more than 2-3 airplanes in the pattern, you have visual on them, and always be ready to make an aggressive climb to remain clear.

[mooneyflyer]

  On 4/9/2018 at 6:54 PM, jetdriven said:

they should listen to the radio if there are 4 planes in the pattern the only curteous thing to do is either the overhead to 45 degree, or even better, just pass 4-5 miles off the end of the runway and fly around the airport to join the 45.  But yes the midfield crossing point is kind of boxed in with regards to maneuvering.  Dont attempt it if more than 2-3 airplanes in the pattern, you have visual on them, and always be ready to make an aggressive climb to remain clear.

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Listen to CTAF at least 10 miles out... at 5 miles you have a great sight picture... its simple to blend... speed up or slow down... communicate location and midfield intention... if you planned poorly, turn upwind... no aggressive maneuvers required.

[carusoam]

Do we have a name for this alternate option?

Radio call something like....  Entering the traffic pattern , at midfield...?

i didn’t see anything in my quick read.

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooneymite]

Just call "Midfield left (or, right as applicable) crosswind".

[mooneyflyer]

  On 4/9/2018 at 10:04 PM, Mooneymite said:

Just call "Midfield left (or, right as applicable) crosswind".

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Exactly.  I usually make 1 extra call since most pilots aren't expecting it.  "XYZ Traffic, Cool Mooney 10 miles out... will make midfield entry, then left downwind for R/W x"

[Hank]

I generally say something like, "Restaurant traffic, Cool Mooney 2 miles south for midfield crossover to left downwind Runway 9, Restaurant Traffic." This will be after my first call at 10 miles out, and a second call at 5 miles out. By 2 miles, even with no other traffic and no AWOS, I'll generally know which way I'm going to land, so I can include that in my call. Sometimes there is other traffic, all inbound to eat, just no one in the pattern yet . . . .

[kpaul]

I just say I will be crossing midfield for a L/R downwind.  It doesn't have to be complicated, and in fact I attempt to keep all radio calls, especially on CTAF, under the KISS principle.

[Cyril Gibb]

That change sounds like more potential for conflict in the circuit with more directions that another aircraft may appear from... direct, overhead, 45 ....  In particular as mentioned above, the mid-downwind guy is in a box determining priority.

Not trying to pick a fight, but I prefer the rules here in Canada for uncontrolled airports.  Flying pattern altitude midfield to enter the mid-downwind is the default circuit join.  The straight in to a downwind entry is only allowed if there’s no conflicting traffic.  Specifically, aircraft doing a mid-downwind entry has the right of way.  Aircraft doing circuits only have one place to look for conflicts (overhead the airport midway over the runway).  Aircraft arriving overhead to do a mid-downwind also have only one place to look (aircraft on the downwind).

Edited April 9, 2018 by Cyril Gibb

[gsxrpilot]

"Mooney 252AD is 4 miles to the West, we'll be crossing mid-field for the left downwind for 17"

"The Mooney is crossing mid-field for the left downwind for 17"

[flyboy0681]

Crap, turns out I've been doing it wrong for the past 35 years. 

[jaylw314]

  On 4/9/2018 at 6:54 PM, jetdriven said:

they should listen to the radio if there are 4 planes in the pattern the only curteous thing to do is either the overhead to 45 degree, or even better, just pass 4-5 miles off the end of the runway and fly around the airport to join the 45.  But yes the midfield crossing point is kind of boxed in with regards to maneuvering.  Dont attempt it if more than 2-3 airplanes in the pattern, you have visual on them, and always be ready to make an aggressive climb to remain clear.

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If people like the runway midfield-to-downwind entry when there is little or no traffic, why not make it a 45-to-downwind from the runway side instead of a 90 degree entry?  Seems like that would give you better visibility since you'd spend half as much time blind in the turn to downwind, and you'd have more time to look for NORDO traffic in the pattern since your closing speed is only 70% that of the 90 degree entry.

[chrisk]

The alternate method always made sense to me

[ArtVandelay]

I cross midfield at PA+500’, so no (should be) conflicts and I say altitude in my position call.

[Hank]

  On 4/10/2018 at 7:54 AM, teejayevans said:

I cross midfield at PA+500’, so no (should be) conflicts and I say altitude in my position call.

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That leaves you descending into downwind, a major sin per every CFI I've flown with. And none of them have said anything when I make a proper midfield crossover entry at TPA from a mile or two out. Primary CFI, CFII, Mooney transition, flight reviews, even the MAPA PPP. But for God's sake, please don't descend into the downwind!

[Mooneymite]

  On 4/10/2018 at 10:24 AM, Hank said:

That leaves you descending into downwind, a major sin per every CFI I've flown with. And none of them have said anything when I make a proper midfield crossover entry at TPA from a mile or two out. Primary CFI, CFII, Mooney transition, flight reviews, even the MAPA PPP. But for God's sake, please don't descend into the downwind!

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Same applies to jet traffic which is supposed to fly the uncontrolled pattern 500' above prop traffic.  No matter where it happens, jets end up descending through slower traffic.  Never has made sense to me.

[ArtVandelay]

  On 4/10/2018 at 10:24 AM, Hank said:

That leaves you descending into downwind, a major sin per every CFI I've flown with. And none of them have said anything when I make a proper midfield crossover entry at TPA from a mile or two out. Primary CFI, CFII, Mooney transition, flight reviews, even the MAPA PPP. But for God's sake, please don't descend into the downwind!

I do exactly what they recommend for turbines in the preferred method in the OP. If it’s safe for them, it should be safe for a Mooney.

[Jim Peace]

Did the circular address anything about touch and go's and the use of camguard?

[Marauder]

  On 4/16/2018 at 9:14 PM, Jim Peace said:

Did the circular address anything about touch and go's and the use of camguard?

Don’t forget about flaps up, flaps down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Simon]

  On 4/9/2018 at 9:59 PM, carusoam said:

Do we have a name for this alternate option?

Radio call something like....  Entering the traffic pattern , at midfield...?

i didn’t see anything in my quick read.

Best regards,

-a-

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"Direct turn" to the downwind?

[mooneyflyer]

  On 4/16/2018 at 5:05 PM, David Herman said:

Here we go ... again ...

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Yes, except this time it's the FAA weighing in.