Practicing stalls in a Mooney

[Bartman]

In the Wheels up or Down thread Cliffy and others point out that you cannot spin if you do not stall.  It has been a long time since we did a poll on this and the questions are different too. It only allows 3 questions, but I added lots of answers. 

This poll applies to your Mooney only, no other aircraft.

[carusoam]

I enjoy a good stall... all configurations & under the hood...

Knowing where the limitations are is really beneficial compared to where they might be...

But realistically, I’m a slow flight, incipient Stall kind of guy...

get the stall horn going, make turns both directions... go home and make the smoothest landings ever...

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

I usually do both (if stall horn counts): one short one as I take off and one on landing, in either case Im a 1-2 feet off the runway so no worries about spins.

[82Mike]

As a CFI I really worry when I hear people not practicing stalls at all.  When I am doing a BFR for anyone I for sure make them do at least a power off stall in a landing configuration.  That is simply too important to not practice.  You can argue that power on to the horn is a good opinion in our planes, but truly with enough altitude it is not that big a deal at least in my J?

[Bartman]

I used to do a lot of stalls in the trainers but not so much anymore, mostly because I rarely fly just to go flying and always have a destination and usually a passenger. I still do an approach stall in landing config from time to time alone, usually to the buffet but sometimes full stall, but I prefer to do slow flight and 360 left and right like Anthony stated above.  I have not required it for currency in many years but I still go up for an hour at least a couple times between Flight Review with the CFII to put me thru my paces including approaches, unusual attitudes, and always includes approach stalls in various configurations.  We tried high power departure stall once, but we agree reduced power 20 inches MP to the horn is adequate.

[Ned Gravel]

PPP course is all about stalls.  

[mike_elliott]

Just did a couple in a new 2017 Mooney Ultra Acclaim M20V with vortex generators, 220# under gross. 53kts VS0 Pretty impressive, i didnt think it would make that much difference

 

[Hank]

I do stalls with CFI/CFII and on checkrides, MAPA PPP too. Slow flight with the horn on is fun, turning both ways and looking around. Departure stalls are always at reduced throttle, but above 20" (that's kind of low), to make it happen sooner and at a lower deck angle. There's no way I would "accidentally" hit the full power stall deck angle, Vy departures are steep enough..

[KLRDMD]

4 hours ago, 82Mike said:

As a CFI I really worry when I hear people not practicing stalls at all.  When I am doing a BFR for anyone I for sure make them do at least a power off stall in a landing configuration.  That is simply too important to not practice.  You can argue that power on to the horn is a good opinion in our planes, but truly with enough altitude it is not that big a deal at least in my J?

When I give flight reviews I ask pilots how often in their normal flying they do slow flight or stalls. Almost all say "never". I ask them how they manage to land the airplane since a good landing requires that you do both on every flight. Then we go out and do slow flight and stalls at altitude . . .

[Yetti]

I do a near stall and slow flight maneuvering every landing....

[DAVIDWH]

Two Words:

Svetlana Kapanina

Russian world aerobatic champion

Many u-tube videos available

[201er]

I try to make just one stall on every flight and that is inches above the runway. Otherwise it is silly to practice stalling. Not stalling is the only thing that matters. How about practice not stalling once you're past the initial phase of trying a stall to know what it is.

I'm not afraid to practice or demonstrate stalls but I don't see any point in it. Most stall accidents won't look like the stalls that were practiced. Often you'll find 3-4 seats with fatalities in them. The signs of stalls that you think you are practicing with an instructor and fuel at tabs is not what a real creep up on you stall will look like unless you're a complete beginner.

[jetdriven]

Your AOA indicator was buried full scale at about 8-10kt above stall and on final at 1.2 It was showing fully stalled. You can stop a M20J at full gross with the airspeed indicator covered over in 800’ on the third try.  Stalls teach you the sensory inputs when maneuvering close to stall speed. And the only way to know the stall speed is to stall it. Then X that by 1.2. And go land. 

Edited December 17, 2017 by jetdriven

[DonMuncy]

Just now, jetdriven said:

 You can stop a M20J at full gross with the airspeed indicator covered over in 800’ on the third try.   

Assuming you would say something close to that for a K model, I would suggest you have your pronouns mixed up. YOU may be able to stop in 800 feet, but "this you" (me) is not that good.  

[jetdriven]

Also mikes airplane is slow. My bicycle is faster. 

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by jetdriven

[jetdriven]

Just now, DonMuncy said:

Assuming you would say something close to that for a K model, I would suggest you have your pronouns mixed up. YOU may be able to stop in 800 feet, but "this you" (me) is not that good.  

That’s why I said the third try. First two are warm ups. Believe it or not I’ve never flown a K but all the earlier versions will stop if you don’t float. 

[DonMuncy]

Just now, jetdriven said:

That’s why I said the third try. First two are warm ups. Believe it or not I’ve never flown a K but all the earlier versions will stop if you don’t float. 

I don't think I could do it on the 10th try. And I don't think it is the fact that it is a K. I think it is pure stick and rudder skills.

[jetdriven]

62kt over the first brick it will. 

[gsxrpilot]

24 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

That’s why I said the third try. First two are warm ups. Believe it or not I’ve never flown a K but all the earlier versions will stop if you don’t float. 

Come fly mine. I might learn something 

[DonMuncy]

16 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

62kt over the first brick it will. 

Ahh. Therein lies the problem. In my experience, getting to the runway is easy. Getting to the right speed is easy. Getting to the right altitude is easy. Getting them to all happen at the same time is the problem.

[jetdriven]

There are three key secrets to landing a Mooney. The first one is have the right airspeed over the fence. Nobody can remember the other two.....

[aviatoreb]

36 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

There are three key secrets to landing a Mooney. The first one is have the right airspeed over the fence. Nobody can remember the other two.....

Something about the landing gear? Definitely.

....and what was it that other thing it?  Monroe told me...And something about a relief tube?

[ArtVandelay]

62kt over the first brick it will. 

I think it would be easier to use a target speed earlier point of the landing process, so you can adjust as required, like 200’. Also I would adjust speed based on weight, and 62 sounds like flying solo speed (my last speed check is 50’, after that I’m focused on the runway) so I don’t know my first brick speed.
I don’t land on 800’ runways so I use 1.3 Vso, a little margin of error in case there is some wind shear.

[midlifeflyer]

I had to think about the full power departure stall. Mostly no on that for a practical reason. If the purpose is recognition and recovery, in most aircraft I have found the nose position with full power to be too high to be a valid analog of a real departure stall. I think partial power makes for a more realistic simulation of something which could happen.

[82Mike]

9 hours ago, 201er said:

I try to make just one stall on every flight and that is inches above the runway. Otherwise it is silly to practice stalling. Not stalling is the only thing that matters. How about practice not stalling once you're past the initial phase of trying a stall to know what it is.

I'm not afraid to practice or demonstrate stalls but I don't see any point in it. Most stall accidents won't look like the stalls that were practiced. Often you'll find 3-4 seats with fatalities in them. The signs of stalls that you think you are practicing with an instructor and fuel at tabs is not what a real creep up on you stall will look like unless you're a complete beginner.

I have to say I just (repectfully) think your incorrect here.  Recognition of a stalled condition can only come from actually experiencing it.  1 foot off the ground is not even close to the experience that we are trying to replicate.  I am glad the FAA agrees with me and has stalls as part of each and every rating in our curriculum.  I can be argued out of a full power on stall as I stated (to the horn is sufficient), but power off my students will learn how to do that as long as I am signing my “life” away with an enforcement.