Should I grab this abandoned Mooney?

[M20FanJesse]

19 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Your buddy Rick's tool box key likely fits the door, if not he must have a variety of old keys in a cup, most shops do.  I've never been kept out of a plane I wanted in.

Clarence

The night after washing it actually, we tried 4 different mooney keys he had in the ol' keys in a cup, and none of them opened it up surprisingly enough! I'll try the toolbox key. Went by the shop at lunch and Rick wasn't there. I have a faint recollection of him telling me he was going on a trip soon. I hope that wasn't today!

[Mr Bill]

Jesse,

Check "Corrosion Repair" in Modern Mooney Discussion page 2.  Corrosion is the number one thing to check!

By the way, I really like my cool T shirt.

Mr Bill

[HRM]

10 hours ago, M20FanJesse said:

We'd like to get the families permission first. Its not our plane yet. Thats what they will likely want us to do. I agree! 

I'm wondering if the logs might be in the plane--not a good practice, but he may have done it before he padlocked the hangar. Also, you should get in touch with any of the previous owners flying buddies. They may have some info for you.

They might know who did his annuals and if you found the shop you might find either the logs or copies of them.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

On 7/28/2017 at 9:35 AM, M20FanJesse said:

The mechanic, Rick, is probably one of my best and closest friends, I see and help him every day after work with the planes he is working on, sometimes for longer than my actual job. We help each other in every aspect, and he told me this plane would be no different. Sorry that you have sh!##y friends. 

You obviously have never worked in I.T. 

That being said. I've talked with Rick and another mechanic on the airport and after a long discussion about it they think it would be in my best interest if I pass on this one, and I take their advice very seriously. (And of course I take your all advice seriously as well haha) The family hasn't found the log books but we still plan on inspecting the frame soon once/if they get the keys. 

Are we referring to mechanic Rick Fleck? If so, does someone have a cell phone number for him? I've been trying to reach him for possible assistance with an unrelated pre-buy on a twin

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by 231-FLYER

[M20FanJesse]

Rick doesn't have a cell I dont think! Sorry guys, he is on a vacation right now. Also Im going through a very rough time right now. Updates will be fewer. 

[DBKrueger]

Jesse,

Should you decide not to move forward I'd be interested.  I have always loved the J model.  Good Luck with whatever you decide.

 

Dan

[N6758N]

Hi Jesse,

First off, I love the t-shirts! I wore both of the ones I bought at Oshkosh this year, keep up the good work! I was in a similar boat to you and @Raptor05121 when I bought my airplane, a 68 m20C, I was 22 when I bought it.  Mine was about 2 years out of annual and was owned by a older WW2 vet who had bought it back in the early 70's and could no longer fly it. It had an engine right at TBO, okay paint, and a not so great but livable interior, and a so so panel. I paid $13,500 with a fresh annual (which later turned out to be a joke) and flew it from Oakland, CA to Vegas where I lived at the time. Since that time I have put more than 30k into it including rebuilding the engine (make sure you look for cracks in the case!), getting rid of the shotgun panel, WAAS GPS plus ADS-B, and freshening up the interior. I am an IA so that does not include labor... If you can get this for 18k or less, it may be worth it, but as Alex is saying ,this thing will eat you out of house and home very quickly. Even if you can afford the initial 40k you might have to sink into it to get it going, its all the reoccurring costs that will start to eat you alive. Hangar, insurance, repairs&annuals, upgrades....the list is never ending. I just purchased a home with my girlfriend and now find it more difficult than ever to afford the airplane, I sold a 1/2 share to a partner about a year ago which has made a huge difference in costs but it still adds up. Take a big step back and look at your financial situation and make sure you can make it work in the long run. If you can swing it for a few years and get it airworthy, then you can get a few partners or buy something cheaper to maintain. If you are serious and intend to move forward with an offer, get a set price in your head and don't offer any more than that. Appealing to the family  that you're a young guy and you will fix it and fly it again will go a long way! Make a list of all the repairs the will be needed to get it back in the air and present that, and explain to them that if they don't sell it to you, it might end up in the scrap heap...or worse with @Alan Fox! Good luck and keep us updated! Do your research and don't give up!

Here is a picture of me at KCCR with the original owner the day we took it home for some inspiration (he was a P-51 pilot, pretty cool!) 

 

[Yetti]

These are simple locks with wear they may even turn with just a flat blade screw driver.   Failing that they are easy to replace.    So replace your windshield wipers.   Take the stainless inserts out of one blade.   Bend a right angle 3" back into one piece of stainless.  That is your turner.   Take the other one and sharpen it into a 1" long angle.    Insert that where the bumpy parts of the key goes.  Insert the Turner into the bottom of the lock and apply slight pressure Wiggle the top part. 

Practice on 4 pin master pad locks at home to get good.

 

 

 

[HRM]

32 minutes ago, N6758N said:

Hangar, insurance, repairs&annuals, upgrades....the list is never ending.

Ditto to that! My insurance broker just sent me the renewal form and yesterday heading out to fly (on the rare cool morning of a Southeast Texas summer) my KX170B was DOA.

Oh yeah, annual coming up in three weeks...<sigh>

[Yetti]

2 hours ago, HRM said:

Ditto to that! My insurance broker just sent me the renewal form and yesterday heading out to fly (on the rare cool morning of a Southeast Texas summer) my KX170B was DOA.

Oh yeah, annual coming up in three weeks...<sigh>

I have a 170B.  Com works. Nav may not

[Fookz92]

Jesse,

Read most of the posts on this thread. Lots of great advice. Awesome story to boot!

Super ironic to because here is my story:

I am 25 now. I currently own a Cherokee 140/160 that I bought 2 years ago for time building in order to qualify for the ATP,  before the regs changed. That mission has  since come and gone. 100kts is too slow for me.

My main job is flying a Lear 45 for a company part 91 and I am at 1800 hrs of TT. (Go get those certificates and ratings dude!) 

I stumbled upon a hangar this past May and saw a Mooney sitting inside. Tracked down the owner only to find out he is on his death bed due to cancer. I got the hangar key from his wife ad let myself into the hanger. In front of me was a beautiful 1977 M20J that hasn't flown for 10 years. 950 hrs TTAF & original engine. Complete logs. 2007 was the last annual and also when the tanks were drained & resealed (still drained now). Brand new interior that has never been flown in. Garmin 530W and the list goes on. The exterior paint was waxed and left to dry on to preserve the paint. Spider webs and 3 flat tires gave it the only negative appeal as it sat in the corner of the hanger. 

Present time: The owner has  passed away and the wife doesn't want a hangar bill every month so, I made an offer on it. Waiting to hear back on it now. 

A lot of risk involved here, I know. I cannot wait until we settle on an offer so I can get a pre-buy done and find out what I am going up against. If the price is right and I dont need a engine for it (we will see what the pre-buys says) Im going to sell the Cherokee and go for it. We both are in a very similar boat it seems. Best of luck to you. 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Fookz92 said:

Jesse,

Read most of the posts on this thread. Lots of great advice. Awesome story to boot!

Super ironic to because here is my story:

I am 25 now. I currently own a Cherokee 140/160 that I bought 2 years ago for time building in order to qualify for the ATP,  before the regs changed. That mission has  since come and gone. 100kts is too slow for me.

My main job is flying a Lear 45 for a company part 91 and I am at 1800 hrs of TT. (Go get those certificates and ratings dude!) 

I stumbled upon a hangar this past May and saw a Mooney sitting inside. Tracked down the owner only to find out he is on his death bed due to cancer. I got the hangar key from his wife ad let myself into the hanger. In front of me was a beautiful 1977 M20J that hasn't flown for 10 years. 950 hrs TTAF & original engine. Complete logs. 2007 was the last annual and also when the tanks were drained & resealed (still drained now). Brand new interior that has never been flown in. Garmin 530W and the list goes on. The exterior paint was waxed and left to dry on to preserve the paint. Spider webs and 3 flat tires gave it the only negative appeal as it sat in the corner of the hanger. 

Present time: The owner has  passed away and the wife doesn't want a hangar bill every month so, I made an offer on it. Waiting to hear back on it now. 

A lot of risk involved here, I know. I cannot wait until we settle on an offer so I can get a pre-buy done and find out what I am going up against. If the price is right and I dont need a engine for it (we will see what the pre-buys says) Im going to sell the Cherokee and go for it. We both are in a very similar boat it seems. Best of luck to you. 

Yes, Dr. Sherman passed away. https://www.afterlife.co/us/obituary-milford-richard-harold-sherman-3639791

Just be honest about it. Jesse was completely up front and people gave him some good things to consider. The airplane is N201FA - you might find some people on here who know something about it rather than lying about it and saying that it's not the airplane you're looking at.

[Firebird2xc]

I don't have anything constructive to add, I just wanted to comment so I got notifications for this thread.
This is a REALLY cool aviation story.

If anybody hangar finds an F-16, please inbox me immediately...  

[Fookz92]

7 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Yes, Dr. Sherman passed away. https://www.afterlife.co/us/obituary-milford-richard-harold-sherman-3639791

Just be honest about it. Jesse was completely up front and people gave him some good things to consider. The airplane is N201FA - you might find some people on here who know something about it rather than lying about it and saying that it's not the airplane you're looking at.

LanceCasper,

I was waiting for you to comment. Yes that is the airplane, It is sad to hear he passed.

[Marauder]

Hi Jesse,
First off, I love the t-shirts! I wore both of the ones I bought at Oshkosh this year, keep up the good work! I was in a similar boat to you and [mention=13319]Raptor05121[/mention] when I bought my airplane, a 68 m20C, I was 22 when I bought it.  Mine was about 2 years out of annual and was owned by a older WW2 vet who had bought it back in the early 70's and could no longer fly it. It had an engine right at TBO, okay paint, and a not so great but livable interior, and a so so panel. I paid $13,500 with a fresh annual (which later turned out to be a joke) and flew it from Oakland, CA to Vegas where I lived at the time. Since that time I have put more than 30k into it including rebuilding the engine (make sure you look for cracks in the case!), getting rid of the shotgun panel, WAAS GPS plus ADS-B, and freshening up the interior. I am an IA so that does not include labor... If you can get this for 18k or less, it may be worth it, but as Alex is saying ,this thing will eat you out of house and home very quickly. Even if you can afford the initial 40k you might have to sink into it to get it going, its all the reoccurring costs that will start to eat you alive. Hangar, insurance, repairs&annuals, upgrades....the list is never ending. I just purchased a home with my girlfriend and now find it more difficult than ever to afford the airplane, I sold a 1/2 share to a partner about a year ago which has made a huge difference in costs but it still adds up. Take a big step back and look at your financial situation and make sure you can make it work in the long run. If you can swing it for a few years and get it airworthy, then you can get a few partners or buy something cheaper to maintain. If you are serious and intend to move forward with an offer, get a set price in your head and don't offer any more than that. Appealing to the family  that you're a young guy and you will fix it and fly it again will go a long way! Make a list of all the repairs the will be needed to get it back in the air and present that, and explain to them that if they don't sell it to you, it might end up in the scrap heap...or worse with [mention=7207]Alan Fox[/mention]! Good luck and keep us updated! Do your research and don't give up!
Here is a picture of me at KCCR with the original owner the day we took it home for some inspiration (he was a P-51 pilot, pretty cool!) 
 

That P-51 pilot looks in great shape. I didn't realize you liked wearing those golf hats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[gitmo234]

21 hours ago, Fookz92 said:

LanceCasper,

I was waiting for you to comment. Yes that is the airplane, It is sad to hear he passed.

I had something similar go on at POA. Although not related to an estate. I found an airplane I thought was a steal. I posted about it, but didn't post the N#. I was looking for insight/thoughts/comments. I got a few of value (I immediately disregard the extreme positive or the "end of the world" comments) but on the negative side, what I got was people pretending to ask questions about it (where's it at, have you planned to fly it home), etc to get enough details so they could try and steal the deal. They didn't steal the deal but they did drive the price up. Total newbie to flying and trying to make my first purchase.... asked for friendly advice. That was a mistake that probably cost me a couple grand. I figured it out when suddenly the seller became unwilling to negotiate because of several other offers, and then of course they told me the put in offers. Wont do that again.

[Fookz92]

2 hours ago, gitmo234 said:

I had something similar go on at POA. Although not related to an estate. I found an airplane I thought was a steal. I posted about it, but didn't post the N#. I was looking for insight/thoughts/comments. I got a few of value (I immediately disregard the extreme positive or the "end of the world" comments) but on the negative side, what I got was people pretending to ask questions about it (where's it at, have you planned to fly it home), etc to get enough details so they could try and steal the deal. They didn't steal the deal but they did drive the price up. Total newbie to flying and trying to make my first purchase.... asked for friendly advice. That was a mistake that probably cost me a couple grand. I figured it out when suddenly the seller became unwilling to negotiate because of several other offers, and then of course they told me the put in offers. Wont do that again.

I did the same. I posted to ask for help/insight/comments to see exactly what I was getting myself into. I posted  2 pics and edited so the N# was not visible. LanceCasper knew the airplane from somewhere else and was the one to let the world on here know what I had, as you see above. 

[steingar]

Just for comparison, I saw an M20E that'd been sitting in a barn since the 70s.  Guy wanted $15K for it.  He didn't get it, at least not on Ebay.

Me, I'd run, not walk away from this.  Either you can afford to purchase and run a 201 or you can't.  If you can't, buying an inexpensive airplane and fixing it up won't be cost effective.  The OP has not one but two jobs.  How much time is he really going to spend overseeing the restoration of his find?  I don't think it'd be worth it were it free.  You should go look at Alex's thread where he bought and spent a year trying to bring his Mooney back to life.  I'm not altogether certain that aircraft is flying yet.  Get some perspective.

Were I an A&P or an IA I might lite on this.  Try and fix it up and restore it while I wasn't earning on someone else's airplane.  That's about the only way this makes any sense at all.

Like I said, run, don't walk.  Don't get seduced by a shiny paint job.  That way leads to the Dark Side.

[jkhirsch]

On 8/1/2017 at 1:31 AM, M20FanJesse said:

 

Ignore the haters and naysayers, unfortunately that's rampant among this community.

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Fookz92 said:

I did the same. I posted to ask for help/insight/comments to see exactly what I was getting myself into. I posted  2 pics and edited so the N# was not visible. LanceCasper knew the airplane from somewhere else and was the one to let the world on here know what I had, as you see above. 

You and I yesterday agreed via PM to start over, but I guess not.  

[Fookz92]

3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

You and I yesterday agreed via PM to start over, but I guess not.  

We did PM and we are starting over. I was just replying to the gentleman above. I read it as he was coming down on me for posting N#. Nothing negative meant here towards you.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Fookz92

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

Just for comparison, I saw an M20E that'd been sitting in a barn since the 70s.  Guy wanted $15K for it.  He didn't get it, at least not on Ebay.

Me, I'd run, not walk away from this.  Either you can afford to purchase and run a 201 or you can't.  If you can't, buying an inexpensive airplane and fixing it up won't be cost effective.  The OP has not one but two jobs.  How much time is he really going to spend overseeing the restoration of his find?  I don't think it'd be worth it were it free.  You should go look at Alex's thread where he bought and spent a year trying to bring his Mooney back to life.  I'm not altogether certain that aircraft is flying yet.  Get some perspective.

Were I an A&P or an IA I might lite on this.  Try and fix it up and restore it while I wasn't earning on someone else's airplane.  That's about the only way this makes any sense at all.

Like I said, run, don't walk.  Don't get seduced by a shiny paint job.  That way leads to the Dark Side.

Alex (@Raptor05121) has put a lot of hours on that plane. He is currently out because of an exhaust issue. Although he has provided some great insights previously in this thread.

[steingar]

3 hours ago, Skates97 said:

Alex (@Raptor05121) has put a lot of hours on that plane. He is currently out because of an exhaust issue. Although he has provided some great insights previously in this thread.

He did indeed, and it was the new exhaust issues that greeted the text you emboldened.  I want to make certain that I applaud Alex's efforts to the greatest extent I can.  He saved a Mooney from the salvage yard at great expense and effort.  That said, if I recall correctly (and please, please place correct me if I'm wrong) Alex works one job at night, giving him more free time than some.  If I am in error on this I do wish to be corrected, I honestly don't want to slight anyone.  Our OP claimed two jobs, one of which is only now beaming lucrative, were I believe his worlds.  Will he really have the time, effort, and capital to spare to see this project to conclusion?  I know I wouldn't, strike three for me.

[carusoam]

What you can do..?

1) Leave some advice, words of caution, for the young buck...

2) discuss the success stories of other people in the same boat...

3) point in the direction of where to get Best parts and services...

 

Things that don't add enough value...

1) mis-typing things... it takes extra effort to not accidently insult others.

2) accidental insults may not get noticed for a while.

3) do it enough, you get blocked by various users.

4) do it extremely, your account gets limited.

 

Challenges of being a noob buying your first plane...

1) It is hard to get information without exposing your ideas.

2) When buying a plane, you want to start the process with some earnest money. A simple small deposit that says hold my place in line while we work out the details. Be aware the clock starts running.

3) The Mooney world isn't tiny, or hidden... put a Mooney on the ramp, it will be seen... putting it on MS with the N number hidden doesn't really hide it that well considering the knowledge base that is here.

4) The first Mooney you try to buy takes a lot of effort and probably fails to go through.

5) the second Mooney you try to buy happens so quickly because you have experience from the first. You are no longer a noob!

6) There are more traps in the lower priced machines...

7) there are better hidden traps in the higher priced machines...

 

In the end...

1) a pilot has to do what a pilot has to do.

2) decide on which machine is going to get all of the excess cash the pilot has.

3) its all going to go somewhere.

 

The free market works in odd ways...

1) no competition, prices are kept artificially low...

2) some competition, prices are kept fair... multiple pilots looking at multiple planes...

3) two pilots competing for the same plane, prices can get out of control...

4) There will always be another plane. Probably even better...

 

My hat is off to the young buck that collects all the wisdom, combines it with his own thoughts and moves forwards with a decision...

I always used the dad to bounce ideas off of... regarding the car, the girl, the house and a few other important topics...

The plane wasn't ever going to get approval in a family that never flew a plane... the plane just showed up, the first one was a rental...

 

Sometimes you just have to make a decision and go with it. 

As long as MS is alive, you will never be alone...

 

How is that?

Best regards,

-a-

[Bolter]

On 8/1/2017 at 10:04 AM, Yetti said:

These are simple locks with wear they may even turn with just a flat blade screw driver.   Failing that they are easy to replace.    So replace your windshield wipers.   Take the stainless inserts out of one blade.   Bend a right angle 3" back into one piece of stainless.  That is your turner.   Take the other one and sharpen it into a 1" long angle.    Insert that where the bumpy parts of the key goes.  Insert the Turner into the bottom of the lock and apply slight pressure Wiggle the top part. 

Practice on 4 pin master pad locks at home to get good.

 

 

 

You can buy a pick set for a reasonable price, too: https://www.southord.com/     Check your state's laws, but they are often legal to own.