Steel Flakes in Oil Filter

[rakesb]

Since buying my M20C in 2013, I really feel that I've been taking good care of her and flying much more frequently than the previous owner. After almost four years of continuously improving oil and oil filter analysis reports, I just received my first potentially bad news: "Filter Analysis, Alloy Steel, Trace 0-12%, AMS# 6414 or 6415, Flakes. A trace amount of alloy steel was removed from the filter, AMS# 6414/6415, ranging in size from 602 x 416 to 3 x 1 microns. All oil values seem fine. Please contact the engine manufacturer's service rep if further assistance is needed."

 

My engine is a Lycoming O-360-A1D with 2851.73 TT and 1303.52 SMOH. I've been changing the oil every four months or 25-30 hours. This particular sample only had 15 hours on it. I use Aeroshell W100 SAE 50 in the summer and Phillips SAE 20W-50 in the winter, ASL Camguard aircraft oil additive, and CH48110-1 Champion oil filter which I change at every oil change and send to AvLab, along with an oil sample, for analysis.

 

I reduce rpm to 2500 at pattern altitude, leave manifold pressure full and cowl flaps open, and cruise climb at 115 mph. Sometimes I open the cowl flaps slightly in cruise to keep the cylinder head temperature gauge below 400. I have never noticed a problem with oil pressure or temperature. I have an EGT gauge, but I don't use it any more for leaning. I lean until engine roughness, then enrich until it smooths out. I don't have an engine analyzer.

 

Are the alloy steel flakes in the filter something that Lycoming would actually talk to me about? Any recommendations for immediate or longer term actions?

 

Thank you,

Bobby Rakes

(573) 337-3447

 

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[cliffy]

Don't get too upset at this point yet. "Trace" is not much. Lycoming has a Service Bulletin directly focused on metal in the filter. I don't have the number right now. As a trace amount I might be inclined to change oil and filter (remember to check the suction filter screen on the back bottom of the oil sump without fail) When you try to pull the suction screen pull the nut/plug off of the tubular screen first, then pull the screen aft and out. You can't make it if you leave the screen and plug together. It will hit the firewall. You will need a new copper seal ring and the safety wire in a b&*(ch.  Then I would run it 5 hrs and recheck the oil sample, filter and suction screen again. I had aluminum in mine once and did this but unfortunately it only got worse so I tore the engine down.  Find the service bulletin and read it too. 

Again, don't get too upset yet. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

You have a four year history of normal oil analyses with one odd reading.  I'd fly it another 15-25 hours and see what the next analysis shows.  If the next analysis also shows steel flakes I'd start to be concerned.  I would not worry much before seeing metal again.  IMO.  

The lab reported a "trace" of steel, and the largest piece at 600 microns is just over a half a millimeter long.  

 

 

 

[Hank]

I agree with Jerry. Traces that small should not be a serious issue. Looks like you change oil often enough to notice if the flaking continues or increases. The SB gives a quantity of allowable flakes measured in fractions of a teaspoon, but I forget how many.

Why do you reduce power on departure? I leave throttle Full and prop Forward on climbiut, and don't reduce either until I reach cruising altitude, level off and accelerate. I also lean using my EGT, usually 50°rich, but when I'm up at 9000 or higher, I leave it closer to peak.

I have a slightly younger version of your plane (1970), with fixed cowl flaps and the guppy mouth closure, about 800 SMOH.

[aaronk25]

I don't believe that the way one operates the engine with respect to rpm, MP or leaning really makes any difference in longevity as long as the plane is flow every week or 2 and not allowed to sit for long periods of time and the chts are kept under 400.

In regards for the metal I agree with others run it and monitor.

Sometimes with these antiquated engines we run all the care in the world doesn't make a difference as far as how long they will go before making metal.

I tore mine down and put in new lifters and a new camshaft and 2 years and 400 hours later the cam started making metal. Lycoming has had a pretty poor past with quality control when it comes to metallurgy. That why I'm now a believer in reman cam and lifters as the only ones that the supplier uses is ones with less than 3,000ths of wear and if it made it that long it will certainly run another 2,000 hours. But when the factory can't get there metal properties right on new products that just stinks!


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[Yetti]

Lycoming says a teaspoon of metal is the place to be concerned.

[ArtVandelay]

Lycoming says a teaspoon of metal is the place to be concerned.

Actually it's 1/4 teaspoon. 1/2 or more is grounds for engine tear down. Lycoming SI 1492 has details.

[PTK]

You may also consider sending the oil filter and have contents analyzed...

https://www.avlab.com/Articles.asp?ID=83

You will know exactly what you are dealing with and its source.

 

[chrixxer]

This begs the question ... Who (Blackstone? AvLabs? Others?) are good places to get oil analysis done, and what's the average cost? IO-360. I fly over mountains at night, I'm a worrier.  The more peace of mind I can buy, the happier I'll be, within reason.

[carusoam]

A trace... (measured by lab equipment)

Vs tsps... (measured by your mechanic)

It seems to be a heads-up. The run it and keep an eye on it, makes a lot of sense.

I would want to be there the next time the filter gets pulled and cut in half. Expect that there is always going to be specks of shiny metal in the filter. A few specks can be disappointing.  So many that they fill part of an ordinary piece of tableware, that's real dissapointment.

Often there is a recommendation by the lab companies of what might be suppliying the offending metal or substance.  Could be that Lycoming has made a list to watch for...

Best regards,

-a-

[DXB]

What prompted you to get the filter analyzed as opposed to simply examining the filter element visually?  If the answer is nothing in particular, then this  finding could mean nothing, or alternately be way more early warning than you need to stay safe. Honestly I feel the same way about oil analysis, and I've quit doing it. But now that you've seen a potential issue, it understandably can't be unseen despite the finding being TMI that isn't making you even a little bit safer.

 

I cut the filter, scope the valves every once in a while, pay attention to my oil consumption,  and watch for anomalies on my engine monitor.  I think other routine monitoring tests offer diminishing returns and unneeded worry.

[75_M20F]

Likely your cam / lifters are grinding themselves up. The only "semi positive" about that situation is that you are not in immediate danger flying it. The engine won't quit it will progressively produce less power over time. There is the possibility the metal flakes can find their way into your prop gov and oil cooler and ruin them though. This problem seems to occur mostly in planes that don't fly much..... 

[Andy95W]

8 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said:

 This problem seems to occur mostly in planes that don't fly much..... 

Or that got a crappy camshaft from the factory.

(I've seen a flight school Piper Arrow- IO-360- that flew a lot but spalled the cam and lifters.  Bad metallurgy was the only possible cause.)

[thinwing]

On 4/30/2017 at 10:03 PM, DXB said:

What prompted you to get the filter analyzed as opposed to simply examining the filter element visually?  If the answer is nothing in particular, then this  finding could mean nothing, or alternately be way more early warning than you need to stay safe. Honestly I feel the same way about oil analysis, and I've quit doing it. But now that you've seen a potential issue, it understandably can't be unseen despite the finding being TMI that isn't making you even a little bit safer.

 

I cut the filter, scope the valves every once in a while, pay attention to my oil consumption,  and watch for anomalies on my engine monitor.  I think other routine monitoring tests offer diminishing returns and unneeded worry.

I think this is an outlier...it was a lab filter analysis...largest piece .4x.6 mm....or this ", "size ,as shown by the comma I typed...the rest to small to be detected without microscopy...simply too small a sample to be meaniful

[AlexLev]

Curious if there is any update or if you've changed oil again since then?