Concorde Battery Expected Life

[FlyWalt]

We installed our first Concorde when I first purchased our 231 in April 2012. I have been very happy. This battery has been a solid trooper. Always a strong starter for us.

When I have left the aircraft on the ground for more than a few weeks I have always topped her off using an electronic trickle charger.

Today, for the first time, I showed up to go somewhere and she was deader than a doornail. Very frustrating. We did a trip less than two weeks ago and the voltage was 12.2 when I put her back in the hangar. All of the switches were off.

What would the expected life be on one of these units. My SOP is that when something fails me, I replace it with new without question. Safety and peace of mind are everything to us.

[NotarPilot]

I remember hearing a Concorde rep say they had one customer who got over 10 years from one of their batteries. Take that for what it's worth.

[DonMuncy]

Did you check the cabin light switch.

But almost 5 years is still pretty good.

[M016576]

You can try to deep charge the thing- but like don says- 5 years is pretty good for an aviation battery.  My Gills only lasted 2.  I'm on year 3.5 with my Concordes- they are starting to show signs of their age.  No battery minder on mine.  

[FlyWalt]

I just use a Schumacher electronic trickle charger when she is down. Very infrequently. I have never tried to desulfate it.

And the cabin door light was off. 

[M20S Driver]

26 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Did you check the cabin light switch.

But almost 5 years is still pretty good.

I have three Concorde RG24 since the cabin light was on Dim and we missed it so I bought a new battery and it was dead after a few days.  

The first dead battery was 5 years old and the second one was new.  My third battery, still on the plane, was installed in 2009 and still running fine.  I used the new battery minder charger for Concorde to recover the batteries and de-sulfate them. I have the 5 year old battery de-sulfated  and ready to go if necessary and its rested voltage is in the 90-100% range.

[ArtVandelay]

You can try to deep charge the thing- but like don says- 5 years is pretty good for an aviation battery.  My Gills only lasted 2.  I'm on year 3.5 with my Concordes- they are starting to show signs of their age.  No battery minder on mine.  

There is something wrong if your Gill battery only lasts 2 years and the Concord is showing it's age at 3.5
The Gill requires occasional maintenance (distilled water) which most owners don't do and why they die quickly and both require to be fully charged. They are either not being charged fully or there is a drain on the battery.

[Aviationinfo]

1 hour ago, FlyWalt said:

We installed our first Concorde when I first purchased our 231 in April 2012. I have been very happy. This battery has been a solid trooper. Always a strong starter for us.

When I have left the aircraft on the ground for more than a few weeks I have always topped her off using an electronic trickle charger.

Today, for the first time, I showed up to go somewhere and she was deader than a doornail. Very frustrating. We did a trip less than two weeks ago and the voltage was 12.2 when I put her back in the hangar. All of the switches were off.

What would the expected life be on one of these units. My SOP is that when something fails me, I replace it with new without question. Safety and peace of mind are everything to us.

12.2 seems like a pretty low state of charge for having just shut the engine down after a trip.  It seems to me that 12.6 - 12.7 is considered a full charge.   If that's the case, it would appear the battery wouldn't charge all the way or there may be some charging system issue.   I've always been taught that these batteries seem to last 4-5 years unless you keep a high quality trickle charger on them, that handles temperature variation and goes for the proper float voltage.   These aviation batteries seem to have different float charge voltage recommendations than car batteries, so perhaps the Shumacher charger isn't correct for the Concord?  It would be interesting to find out what voltage Concord recommends.

[M016576]

43 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

There is something wrong if your Gill battery only lasts 2 years and the Concord is showing it's age at 3.5
The Gill requires occasional maintenance (distilled water) which most owners don't do and why they die quickly and both require to be fully charged. They are either not being charged fully or there is a drain on the battery.

The gills died prematurely due to leaving a cabin light on and totally draining them.  I understand that they require maintenance.    I tried to recover them-  got one to hold a bit of a charge, but the other was TU- so I elected to replace them with sealed AGM Concordes.  There was definitely a drain there:  my 4 year old turning on the light in the back, and Me not catching it until it was too late!

 

the Concordes rest at 12.6 right now- so they are no longer the sprightly 12.8-12.9 I was seeing when I installed them 3.5 years ago.  I expect they will last another couple years, if not longer.  I assure you- nothing is wrong, but thanks for your concern.  I think maybe a trickle charger could keep the battery's a little longer- but  I'm doing ok so far.  Anyone have a 3.5 year old battery showing something greater than 12.6 volts after 4 years on a trickle charger?

[Danb]

I changed my Concorde's a couple years out of guilt in my Bravo, they both were 8 years old and still working well.

[Hank]

I bought a Concorde and installed it 12/2010. Last summer, she was cranking slow, and I replaced it before heading out Labor Day Weekend 2016, since I was heading to a no-services offered location.

if you are having problems at 3-1/2 years, something's wrong . . .

[PTK]

I installed a Concorde in March 2008. I have kept it on a batteryminder ever since while airplane is in the hangar. Going on 9 years now without a hitch. 

[DonMuncy]

Maybe whoever does polls could do one on battery brands, length of life and whether they were killed with cabin lights or master left on. My own opinion is that batteries die whenever they darn well want to after a couple of years.

[M20F]

There is a lot of variability in battery life depending on how it is treated.  Airplane batteries tend not to recharge after being totally killed, rapid charging hurts them, etc.

Somebody with more electrical engineering skills can probably explain why but they don't work like car batteries. 

[bradp]

I'm on my 4th year with a concorde - the gill installed by the previous owner lasted about three. 

I don't keep her on a trickle charger, but am having good luck so far.  It could be that all my flights are ~2 hrs and she gets a decent alternator charge in that time period.  Who knows...

Now comes Murphy's law...

[Marauder]

Maybe you got a bad one. I installed mine in July 2004, going on 13 years.




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[carusoam]

Thickness and distance between plates make the aviation battery different than a car's battery.

Battery Minder explains the difference of the various battery types and manufacturers.

Just bought the charger to handle a pair of Concorde AGMs.

Having two batteries you can observe the strength differences as the older one gets to it's end.  With the Gills, when the two batteries behave the same...they are both at the end....

looks like I'll be selling off the old Gill battery charger if there is any interest...

I had a fun conversation with the tech guy at BatteryMinder.

I could not find the exact device for sale on Amazon, but Aircraft Spruce was willing to take my money and deliver quickly.

the voltage regulator is the device that charges our batteries in flight.  Having that set up properly has got to be important. Anyone make any changes to match the new battery they installed?

Best regards,

-a–

Edited February 12, 2017 by carusoam

[Hank]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

 

the voltage regulator is the device that charges our batteries in flight.  Having that set up properly has got to be important. Anyone make any changes to match the new battery they installed?

The Concorde is the same voltage as whatever it replaced . . . Both are 12V, all same same. What to adjust, sir?

[Sabremech]

My Concorde battery is 7 plus years old and still going strong. I don't keep a trickle charge on it but do put a top charge on it if it's sat for a few months through Winter. 

I won't use a Gill unless there are no other options. 

 

[cliffy]

Any of you with long term batteries ever do a capacity check at annual time?

You might be surprised at what you find. 

Remember, that batteries capacity is your lifeline if the alternator dies-especially at night!

Just because it starts the engine doesn't make it usable for keeping things going when needed. 

Day VFR no problemo, night or IFR (or both) way different story. Your life may depend on it. 

[cliffy]

A battery actually uses very little of its "capacity" to start the engine. It uses a larger percentage of its total "capacity" to start the engine as it ages (but still the same 10% of normal capacity) and the capacity goes down. Think of it this way. You have a battery at 100% capacity. It uses 10% of that capacity to start and then recharges. Now later on with age you are down to 20% total capacity and you can still use a "normal" 10% (1/2 of what you now have for total capacity) to start and it will start but the battery is down to 10% "total capacity" until it recharges to its worn out 20%. Now you lose your alternator. How long will each battery last?  One has 100% capacity and one has 20% capacity when charged. 

They still both start the engine but how much does each battery really have to give you when used as an electrical reservoir  to power everything in your airplane after the alternator fails? You think the 20% one will give you 30 mins of use like the 100% one, before it goes dead? OH, but wait, it started the engine didn't it?  :-) :-)

[carusoam]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

The Concorde is the same voltage as whatever it replaced . . . Both are 12V, all same same. What to adjust, sir?

Hank,

the original sticks and stones VR in my C had a few adjustments to maintain the output from the generator.  

The Zeftronics replacement VR in the C was like digital magic at controlling the voltage.

when reading about the BatteryMinder that is specific to brand and type of battery, I am wondering if Zeftronics can get more out of our batteries in a similar way?

its only a few percentage points of optimization. It would be nice to know if we could have our batteries last even longer if our VR can be more specific...?

7 years of getting a new Gill every year has put a strain on my ownership experience...

I just finished writing a thank you email to my contacts at BatteryMinder. The buying process is easy enough. But getting all the details confirmed is important.  They have so many options to wade through including experimental...

Thanks to Lance(?) who detailed his experience buying the same stuff a while back.

imagine that... going from a new Gill every year to wanting to get a few extra years for free?

Something's are just hard to believe, especially when they are expensive things...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[ArtVandelay]

The Concorde is the same voltage as whatever it replaced . . . Both are 12V, all same same. What to adjust, sir?

AGMs will take a higher voltage but since aircraft voltage regulators don't have 3 stage charging, it's probably best just to leave them at 13.8-13.9

Battery minders have mutlistage (smart) charging, so you definitely need the correct version ( -5 for Concord IIRC). That's why they should last longer if you use a battery minder, you don't need it if you are flying regularly but it certainly can't hurt.

Leaving you batteries to drain, especially wet cells (Gills) is a quick way to kill them, or not charging them fully will also kill them. If you battery is lasting only a year then something is not right.

[Andy95W]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

The Concorde is the same voltage as whatever it replaced . . . Both are 12V, all same same. What to adjust, sir?

The AGM batteries are more picky about charging voltage than the old lead acid.  Too much voltage can ruin the Concorde RG series (AGM).  This is from their owner's manual:

[carqwik]

BatteryMinder...best investment so far for my Concordes RG's 24V.  Alternate the charger between each battery about each week or so...  If I get eight years out of the batteries, I will be extremely happy.  Summer not good for batteries in PHX...