Adventures in Annual round 2

[cliffy]

BTW, just finished my annual today. 15th I've done on this airplane by myself and I'm sore all over (but I'm 70 also:-) :-). 

 

[bonal]

I thought those spinner washers were required 

[Bob_Belville]

5 hours ago, bonal said:

I thought those spinner washers were required 

Mine, only 2 years old, polished aluminum, Hartzell Scimitar, has the nylon washers.

[bradp]

I have the nylon washers too.


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[Bob_Belville]

7 hours ago, cliffy said:

BTW, just finished my annual today. 15th I've done on this airplane by myself and I'm sore all over (but I'm 70 also:-) :-). 

 

This is my 5th "owner assisted" on this E, I've done more of the work each time. Sore? You bet - I'm over 70. Lynn removed the governor (sent to APS for warranty IRAN), did the compression check (all 4 cyl. are 78/80) and checked/consulted several times. He'll be working on the right gear to get it to go a little higher into the wheel well and tweaking the controls rigging as well as reinstalling the governor. Or, he'll do some touch up painting. 

Tip to JBar folks; it's probably been many years since the "handle" on the JBar had been removed, cleaned and lightly lubed. Easy task and very worthwhile. With the sleeve moving freely latching and unlatching is much easier. (I did not find a drawing in either the parts or maintenance manuals, they might be there but I did not find one, but the assembly could not be simpler.) Hold the nut on the bottom of the threader rod inside the JBar, screw the sleeve off. There's a nut, a long spring and a ~ 2" sleeve that goes inside the spring and is a hard limit on how far down the handle can go. When reassembling be sure to check the travel of the handle which is determined by how far up the nut is on the threaded rod.

(I had bought the set of jacks that are advertised in MAPALog (Alpha Aviation) a few months ago. Really nice to be able to have the plane up on jacks for weeks at a time vs. borrowing some for a day or two.)

[Hank]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

I have the nylon washers too.


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I put some on my Hartzell polished spinner several years ago. Makes it easier to get the screws out, and keeps them from digging into the metal during reassembly. I think I bought a bag of 100, they are now under every screw that seats directly against a metal panel.

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Mine, only 2 years old, polished aluminum, Hartzell Scimitar, has the nylon washers.

didn't yours break, Bob?

[Bob_Belville]

17 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

didn't yours break, Bob?

Mike, yes - actually the "front bulkhead(?)" cracked. The spinner was 2 years old (warranty is 3 years) so Hartzell sent us a new one. That's when the issue of the dome touching the blades and the possibility that the problem is the holes being off was discovered. As of now Hartzell is committed to getting me a dome that fits correctly. They're studying the drawings and the dome I sent back. It is apparent that I actually have had 3 domes and all of them ought to be drilled differently! (Or alternately the "lip" of the blade opening modified slightly.) 1] The new one, 2] the cracked one which shows evidence which went unnoticed of touching the blade and 3] a third one still in my hangar which was on the prior prop - same part number - and had been apparently field modified slightly to provide clearance.

I wonder if anyone else has seen this problem?

This is a 2 blade Scimitar HC-C2YR-1BFP/F7497. Here's the info I provided to Hartzell a few days ago:

"The new dome is part # C-3532-22P which matches what was on the plane before the prop was replaced 2 years ago. The spinner assy. is part # A-2295-5P (the old one that was replaced 2 years ago was part # C2294-11P Rev E ser.# 1405641 - would that be a factor?) The dome is very close to fitting, we can bolt it on but the blades touch the edge of the flanged "cut out" in the dome."

 

[jetdriven]

Make sure you are using structural screws on the spinner, not shiny hardware store versions. Structural screws don't have threads all the way to the head. Those threads cut into the holes and make them bigger.  Which makes the spinner fit on a little crooked when tight..

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

Make sure you are using structural screws on the spinner, not shiny hardware store versions. Structural screws don't have threads all the way to the head. Those threads cut into the holes and make them bigger.  Which makes the spinner fit on a little crooked when tight..

I'll have to check. They're probably 10-32 X 1/2 Truss Head Machine Screw, S.S. with a nylon washer.

[Guest]

Use either AN525-1032R series screws or MS27039-1-X structural screws

Clarence

[Bob_Belville]

12 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Use either AN525-1032R series screws or MS27039-1-X structural screws

Clarence

I am reusing the screws on the spinner which I'll check against my known AN525-10328 screws. 

I would replace the nylon washers but the ones on the spinner now have a tighter fitting id than the #10 washers I have from Spruce.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

I am reusing the screws on the spinner which I'll check against my known AN525-10328 screws. 

I would replace the nylon washers but the ones on the spinner now have a tighter fitting id than the #10 washers I have from Spruce.

The washers from Hartzell were a red fibre material which did have a much tighter fit on the screw.

Clarence

[Hank]

I don't remember if the washers I bought from Spruce were nylon or Teflon. But I'm glad to have them.

[Bob_Belville]

I was just at the airport, the washers that have been on the spinner screws are clear/white. 

My supply of 10328 truss head screws have threads cut to the head. The ones that have been in use and are fine do have a small, unthreaded "shoulder". 

[Yetti]

bled the right brakes..    NDT guy is in town tomorrow so might as well get the prop hub looked at.

[Hector]

Can someone put a link to spruce or a part number for the nylon washers? My Hartzell prop is less than 5 years old and it does not have nylon washers on the spinner screws.


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[mike20papa]

On 12/25/2016 at 9:07 PM, M20Doc said:

Use either AN525-1032R series screws or MS27039-1-X structural screws

Clarence

Yes, but what about the washers?  I'd love to replace the metal ones with nylon.  Considering the curved surface of the spinner, to me they make more sense.  Or with the washer head AN525 screws, do you need washers.  I thought washers are technically used to adjust grip length, only.

[Andy95W]

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/hanylonwashers.php

For the spinner screws you'll need the #10s.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Andy95W said:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/hanylonwashers.php

For the spinner screws you'll need the #10s.

That's them. I bought 100 each of #8 and #10 to put in various places. I keep some of both washers and all panel screws in a baggie in the plane with my tools. It all lives in a rectangular plastic container--sockets, adjustable wrenches, screwdrivers, safety wire & pliers, mechanic gloves, etc., in the baggage area, and I stack baggage on top of it when traveling. Go ahead and order spare screws, too, also 100 of each used for your inspection panels and spinner; stash some in your plane kit. Then you can replace any screws at annual that you don't like.

The first place that did my annual when I moved put all of my panels back in for me, after I asked them not to. Judging by the difficulty I had removing them, they were all seated using an electric screwdriver. It took me 45 minutes, pushing all I was worth with both legs, to get the last dozen screws out of my spinner. I threw them away and reassembled with all new screws and washers.

Every panel screw on my plane now has a nylon washer between the screw head and the metal, except for the countersunk screws in the belly that have those countersunk stainless washers. I did that because many of the screws had scraped through the paint, and I'd rather not scrape through the metal panel, too.

[Bob_Belville]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

That's them. I bought 100 each of #8 and #10 to put in various places. I keep some of both washers and all panel screws in a baggie in the plane with my tools. It all lives in a rectangular plastic container--sockets, adjustable wrenches, screwdrivers, safety wire & pliers, mechanic gloves, etc., in the baggage area, and I stack baggage on top of it when traveling. Go ahead and order spare screws, too, also 100 of each used for your inspection panels and spinner; stash some in your plane kit. Then you can replace any screws at annual that you don't like.

The first place that did my annual when I moved put all of my panels back in for me, after I asked them not to. Judging by the difficulty I had removing them, they were all seated using an electric screwdriver. It took me 45 minutes, pushing all I was worth with both legs, to get the last dozen screws out of my spinner. I threw them away and reassembled with all new screws and washers.

Every panel screw on my plane now has a nylon washer between the screw head and the metal, except for the countersunk screws in the belly that have those countersunk stainless washers. I did that because many of the screws had scraped through the paint, and I'd rather not scrape through the metal panel, too.

I bought the nylon washer assortment from Spruce but the Hartzell(?) washers have a smaller i.d., fitting very close to the threads, than the stock washers. And as Byron pointed out, the 10328 screws from Hartzell are not threaded all the way to the head but the "Truss Head" from Spruce assortment kits are. 

[Yetti]

NDT guy Felt up the prop hub with his probe. Lots of questions by a an eager to learn Yetti.   How to get NDT Certified?   Ever found one cracked?  "Nope"  We discussed how outside planes and ice could be detrimental to a hub.

[bonal]

Would be nice to be certified to do the hub inspection. Tester isn't much of an investment I always wonder why more shops don't do the inspection. I found one in San Luis but the airport forced  him off field after being there forever. Eric at Golden state propeller. Real nice guy and only charged 125 for the service. I hope he is able to continue his business. He said he has never found a failure on the 180hp application.

[Yetti]

I committed driving around on the ramp today.  Then we signed off the annual.  Good for another year.  Should have some good video of the gear swing and manual gear extension.

Too tired to do the RTS flight.   Maybe tomorrow.

[Bob_Belville]

I finally took to the air 2/2. It was so close to February when we installed the walking beams, adjusted the gear torque, tweaked the control surface rigging and got the right grease for the guide blocks and jack screw that we finished the sign off Wednesday and flew Thursday. It was the most satisfying annual I've done. No expensive repairs but lots of fine tuning.

There are two Mooneys now @ AGL as first timers. Both Mooney Spacers from nearby states. What they share here is their business, I'll just observe that Mooney specific details especially the gear, might not be getting enough attention.