How many times do you check gear down?

[Shadrach]

The answer to not landing gear-up is:  technology.

 

Think about the last time that a big jet airliner landed gear up (other than a gear malfunction).  It just about never happens even though they make thousands of landings under all sorts of adverse conditions.  You know why they don't land gear up?

 

The gear warning system.

 

Humans make mistakes, technology to the rescue.

Most of us have gear warning systems.  Airliners don't often gear up because they have better CRM.

[Mooneymite]

Most of us have gear warning systems.  Airliners don't often gear up because they have better CRM.

Ha!

 

CRM, checklists, routines, habits and all those human-dependent crutches are useless over the long haul.  Eventually the pilot forgets to put the gear down.

 

An EGPWS gear warning gets the job done.

 

Bring it on.

[Danb]

Amelia I'd have told the examiner to shove it, your pilot in command, I check mine to many times to quantify,but it's basically a continual process from when I first should have put it down until it's in the hanger. Again there are so many arrogant experts that try to alter your way of doing things even if repetitious...I'd be willing to bet he'd have a G UP before you.is there one reason why you can check to much?

I used to fly with a very compenent B pilot who for some reason stopped using checklists,I asked him nicely why and the response was its in his head,that was my last flight with him as a passenger

[BKlott]

I never check mine...

[carusoam]

I bet you look out the window and marvel at their roundness and curse them for their drag more than three times each flight, BK...

Do you hang with Marauder? I hear he appreciates the roundness factor of things?

[bonal]

I never check mine...

In my 150 Gumps would always take a look out the window since I had no wheel pants at least I could confirm the wheels were attached

[Andy95W]

Ha!

CRM, checklists, routines, habits and all those human-dependent crutches are useless over the long haul. Eventually the pilot forgets to put the gear down.

An EGPWS gear warning gets the job done.

Bring it on.

The answer to not landing gear-up is: technology.

Think about the last time that a big jet airliner landed gear up (other than a gear malfunction). It just about never happens even though they make thousands of landings under all sorts of adverse conditions. You know why they don't land gear up?

The gear warning system.

Humans make mistakes, technology to the rescue.

Sorry to disagree, but it's not the technology, it's the CRM and the slavish dedication to procedures and consistency.

I have never heard "Too low- Gear" in an actual airplane. Ever. I have never spoken with anyone who has heard it either. The closest that 99.99% of airline crews ever get to that point is when the pilot monitoring says, "do you want the gear?" And that happens shortly after the approach starts deviating from the normal approach called for in our procedures.

[Guest]

How many of you check gear selector position prior to turning on the master switch? I do it every time, gear up at the hangar is just as bad as on the runway.

Clarence

[Alan Fox]

Don't Mooneys  have a squat switch??

[Shadrach]

Don't Mooneys  have a squat switch??

yes, but it is conceivable that on the take off roll the plane could get light enough on it wheels defeat the switch before it's ready to fly.

[ryoder]

My manual mooney will sound a warning when manifold pressure drops and the gear is still up.

It happened on short final when I first bought the mooney and had only a few hours since transition training. I put the gear down but the light didn't turn green so when I went over the fence and made a power reduction I heard the warning and went to full power after seeing the red light. I told the tower I was going around due to gear not being down and he said he checked it for me and it was down. I told him it wasn't showing as locked and that is like to work it out in the pattern. This was my first solo after training and it scared me sufficiently so now I am diligent in checking for and saying gear down and locked while pointing to the green. I point to the green and grab the bar on short final too.

[Marauder]

Don't Mooneys have a squat switch??

Either a squat switch or an airspeed switch. Both of which can fail.

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[Marauder]

How many of you check gear selector position prior to turning on the master switch? I do it every time, gear up at the hangar is just as bad as on the runway.

Clarence

It's in my flow and on my checklist.

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[peevee]

I don't check it. I put the gear down abeam touchdown and never look away, I just continuously monitor the gear for the rest of the approach. It gets a little weird in the flare.

[Yetti]

Do all the electric mooneys have the floor manual indicator?  In addition to checking the green light, I think I check the floor about twice. The manual gear indicator would seem to be bombproof on reliability of knowing.

[midlifeflyer]

Ha!

 

CRM, checklists, routines, habits and all those human-dependent crutches are useless over the long haul.  Eventually the pilot forgets to put the gear down.

 

An EGPWS gear warning gets the job done.

 

Bring it on.

 

Ha!

 

I'm guessing most pilots already know they are close to the ground when they land. And all the warnings around don't help the humans who don't pay attention to them.  All you are describing is yet another human-dependent crutch.

[midlifeflyer]

My manual mooney will sound a warning when manifold pressure drops and the gear is still up.

 

I think just about all retracts made since the 50's have some sort of audible warning system when power is below a certain level with the gear still up.

 

One thing I do when I do complex training is insist it never gets heard. I explain that (1) even if he or she knows what it is for, a significant other will absolutely be terrified of the sound, so if you want him or her to fly with you, don't let it go off and (2) letting it go off regularly makes it a "normal" rather than "emergency" sound, adding to the likelihood it will be disregarded.

 

Like these guys...

https://youtu.be/2hMn7ZweF6s

[PTK]

I have a question. Please educate me.

Barring equipment failure or being too lazy refusing to use the written pre landing checklist is there another good reason or excuse I'm missing for the gear not to be down?

Is there something more pressing than going through the pre landing checklist during...pre landing???

[Yetti]

I think it is skipping a step in the checklist.  How many times have you skipped a step in any check list?  Finger slid too far down.  the last step took too long or needed more attention.  then you go on to the next step. which is actually a couple down from the one you last did. 

[Andy95W]

Is there something more pressing than going through the pre landing checklist during...pre landing???

Distractions.

When I was actively teaching, I would ask the transitioning pilot as they joined downwind, "so, what is your family doing for Christmas this year?"

It never failed to sufficiently distract them enough to forget the gear.

Funny thing was, they usually didn't notice the gear warning horn either. Established on final, I would ask them what that horn was. Invariably they would say, "unh,... stall warning?" After which we would execute a go around to leave the pattern and talk.

Our spouses somehow sense that we become more alert as we get closer to landing, and without meaning to distract us, they will.

The same thing will happen if something throws us off our normal routine, such as someone cutting us off in the pattern, low oil pressure, lack of airspeed indication, etc.

[Marauder]

Do all the electric mooneys have the floor manual indicator? In addition to checking the green light, I think I check the floor about twice. The manual gear indicator would seem to be bombproof on reliability of knowing.

My electric gear has it and it also has failed. It is a piece of plexiglas that is attached to the nose gear and slides up and down a track. I always check it since it is the only thing mechanically linked that could tell you what is going on with the gear position.

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[midlifeflyer]

I have a question. Please educate me.

Barring equipment failure or being too lazy refusing to use the written pre landing checklist is there another good reason or excuse I'm missing for the gear not to be down?

 

No.

 

But acknowledging (which just about everyone will) there is no good reason or excuse doesn't solve the problem, since pilots do in fact miss it.

 

And, while I am definitely a proponent of using written checklists, the failure to lower the gear is not really a checklist issue.

[midlifeflyer]

Distractions.

When I was actively teaching, I would ask the transitioning pilot as they joined downwind, "so, what is your family doing for Christmas this year?"

It never failed to sufficiently distract them enough to forget the gear.

 

Love it!

 

My worst "almost" (actually, my only "almost" after my initial training) was after I flew with another pilot. He was also an airline guy and  flew the same make/model as me. I watched his gear-down procedure and it looked so smooth and otherwise good that I decided to change mine and try to adopt his. Second flight with the "new" procedure and a very, very minor distraction led me to forget and the gear warning blared me to attention.

 

Scared the crap out of me and I immediately returned to my prior procedure. And adopted my Landing Gear Rule #1 - establish an SOP that works and never vary it so it becomes a habit. (Rule #2 is the corollary: i"don't screw around with it after you have one)

[Mooneymite]

I have never heard "Too low- Gear" in an actual airplane.

 

Oh, I don't mind you disagreeing.  I like it. 

 

However, when one is speaking of "never forgetting the gear", or "never hearing the 'too low gear' warning", the operative word that should always be added is:

 

"YET".

 

As in, "I have never heard "Too low-Gear", YET."

 

I  have heard it many times.  I hear it each time I do a GPWS test on preflight.  Even then, it gets my attention. 

 

I haven't heard it during flight.....yet.  As they say, there's them that have and them that will......

 

For those who may not be familiar with a GPWS gear warning, it's pretty hard to miss/ignore, but knowing how some of us can persevere in screwing up, it may happen.

 

Both crew members generally remember to put the gear down because they hate buying beer for their flying partner should the GPWS warning actually go off "for real"!

 

Threat and error management at its finest! 

[PTK]

No.

But acknowledging (which just about everyone will) there is no good reason or excuse doesn't solve the problem, since pilots do in fact miss it.

And, while I am definitely a proponent of using written checklists, the failure to lower the gear is not really a checklist issue.

If not a checklist issue then what kind of issue is it? Because its on the checklist in black and white.