I'm all verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves, I'll give you a topic...

[bonal]

C or G E or F don't really make much difference when it comes to time for annuals bend over and surrender your wallet to the service center.  Right now I'm wishing I had a drug habit instead of a love of flight would be a lot cheaper.  I think I'm going to contact the discovery channel see if they want to do a series on getting annuals done.  could be more interesting than drug addicted crab fishermen.

[mike_elliott]

Well,,

Starting with the G test article, and referring to this site,   http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/Mooney/46.htm

 

the G is 11 kts slower than the C.  and is stuck with 50lbs lower gross.

even with 50lbs more gross it would probably still climb 57fpm less than the C.

 

and the F is 4kts slower than an E, even though the F has 165lbs more gross.

the E should have the same gross as the F and still climb 92fpm more,  maybe a little less.

 

the F has a useful load of 1100lbs.

the E is 975lbs, but if it had the upped gross it would have a useful load of 1140lbs,,  and still the most speed.

 

the C has a useful load of 1050lbs,  and second fastest speed.

the G useful load is only 940lbs (really not too bad), but if the gross was upped to same as C, useful load would be 990lbs.

it would still be slowest of all, but would it be slower/slower?

I had heard they actually made a structural change on the F (and J's) to allow for the increased GW. The G's and E's didn't get it, so Mr. Customer, buy the F. Now that I have said it, I cannot recall what authority told me that, but I remember I believed them because of their pedigree. I suppose this question directed to Stacey Ellis would yield authority, however. 

[eman1200]

F's. I like F's. I like C's E's and G's too. I definitely like the J's. C's appear to be in my price range, and the purpose of this thread was to compare the same year (68) C and G, since I saw one of each up for sale, one local and one here on MS. the price difference was significant, hence I wanted to start the round table discussion about the two specific models. trust me, with 1 partner or a lil more moolah saved up, I'd be all over a J.

[carusoam]

If your kids have legs, G is your answer...

-a-

[Shadrach]

F's. I like F's. I like C's E's and G's too. I definitely like the J's. C's appear to be in my price range, and the purpose of this thread was to compare the same year (68) C and G, since I saw one of each up for sale, one local and one here on MS. the price difference was significant, hence I wanted to start the round table discussion about the two specific models. trust me, with 1 partner or a lil more moolah saved up, I'd be all over a J.

Find a modded F! J looks with F payload, manual gear and flap systems for less than a J!

[N33GG]

Reading the numbers and analyzing performance from your desk is one thing, while actually flying the different models may give a very different result and conclusion.

 

I have flown many, many Mooneys of all flavors.  The G's are soooooo underwhelming and under powered compared to the others, regardless of how close and the same they look on the books.

 

If you need the leg room, get an F or J.

 

Again, apologies to all the G owners and fans out there!

 

Just my 2 cents.

[orionflt]

 

It's a great article.  For me, the climb rate tells the story.  The G is the least performing.  Why pay a premium for it, if all else is equal?  On the other hand, if you find one in great shape with good avionics, then I'd certainly consider it.  

 

      M20E             IO-360               200                         794 FPM

      M20F             IO-360               200                         702 FPM

      M20C             O-360                180                         657 FPM

      M20G             O-360                180                         600 FPM

I know what the book number say, but  my "C" consistently has a better ROC then the F and J models I have flown with.

 

Brian

[treebobboy]

Okay, I've watched all the bashing, listened to all the BS speeds, heard pros for this and cons for this and that.  What the original poster wanted to know was, "which is better, a C or a G"?  Yes, I am biased, I own a G model.  I bought it for many reasons:  It's carburated (first crank of the day, starts after one blade, second start after refueling takes 3/4 blades),  yes I only get 140 knots at 24 squared (but I'm burning 8 gph or less depending on my altitude), and that extra leg room in the back is fantastic (even if you don't think you will haul passengers, believe me, YOU WILL, since you will be so proud of your new flying machine).

 

Everyone has been talking about fuel capacity---52 gallons divided by 8 is a hell of a lot more than my blatter can stand.  Yes, I'm old, but even young folks have a hard time going 6 hours without a pit stop and you would still have 30 minutes reserve.  Comfort of the pax and crew should be your first priority, not how fast you can go, how fast you can climb, or how cool do I look.

 

Lastly, and I will get off my soapbox, I can enter the pattern and drop the flaps at 125k, then the gear at 120k.  From what I have read and seen, there are a lot of Mooneys that can't do that, according to the POH.  The Mooney is a very fast and agile aircraft, but you always need to stay ahead of it, and if you do, you will get the most bang for you buck.  Only you can make the decision on what you want, so, please take my recommendations only as that, a recommendation.

[Hank]

The treeman flies his G very similar to how I fly my C, except I don't run 24/2400. MAPA PPP taught me that my critical number is 47, so down low I'll run 23/2300; 4000-7000 I run either 22/2400, 23/2400 or 24/2300; above 7500 it's WOT minus a tad/2500. Our flap and gear speeds are the same. This tends to yield right at 9 gph block time, with calculated true airspeeds of 160 to sometimes 170+. (145 mph indicated at 9500 msl is 172.6 true.)

Sometimes I find myself blowing into the pattern after a power-on descent, level at TPA and throttled way back, slowing through 140 and waiting to see less than 125 so I can drop flaps then gear. Stuff happens sometimes . . . But it's nice to be able to do.

My problem is on those few wonderful days that I have a great tailwind, I have a hard time figuring when to start descent. Too early leaves me low and minus the tailwind far from the field; too late leaves me circling to lose altitude just a couple or three miles away. Oh, the pain of having a slick, low-drag design!

[eman1200]

Appreciate the feedback, treebob (and everyone else).  In my defense, I didn't specifically ask "which is better", as I knew that would lead to "mine is better", "no, mine is better" (who am I kidding, y'all wouldn't do that!).  The purpose of the thread was mainly to list/discuss the differences so I could understand between the two same-year models.  You know, a learning effort on my part.  I WILL make my own decision.  And if that decision should be a horrifically slow, poor climbing, cr@ppy G model (  ) then so be it!    I kid, I kid...........

[carusoam]

What price differences are you seeing eman?

When I bought my C, the G was about 10AMU more. The F added 20AMU.

10AMU so my kids could have leg space...

I let them make the choice, leg space in the plane or day care....

They grew to love the C....

[Shadrach]

I know what the book number say, but my "C" consistently has a better ROC then the F and J models I have flown with.

Brian

All other things being equal, it's all about HP/lbs. Many F's and J's have ballooned since their birth and the Js were always heavier. My bird is regularly flown at weights under 2100lbs. In the winter with the negative DAs we have here, light weight missions can translate into initial climb rates of 1700fpm. All it takes is a summer flight at gross to remind you that performance is determined by many factors. I'm betting that the birds you've flown are all closer than you imagine, but have been flown under a variety of conditions.

[Seth]

Think of the G not as an underpowered F but as a stretched C. Overhaul costs are less, you are faster than other Non-Mooney's, and and you burn less gas per hour.

I personally wanted the extra ponies when I pirchased my first Mooney, which was an F. It was between a F and E for me. Should the G fit your mission, it's a Mooney.

The powerflow exhaust can add a tiny bit of power. They only made it two years as people went with the C or F.

The C is still one of the best buys in GA. Find a Mooney that has WAAS GPS and as many 201 mods as possible. A working AP is a HUGE plus as well.

The early V tail Bo's are also way down in price right now.

Good luck,

-Seth

[orionflt]

All other things being equal, it's all about HP/lbs. Many F's and J's have ballooned since there birth and the Js were always heavier. My bird is regularly flown at weights umder 2100lbs. In the winter with the negative DAs we have here, light weight missions can translate into initial climb rates of 1700fpm. All it takes is a summer flight at gross to remind you that performance is determined by many factors. I'm betting that the birds you've flown are all closer than you imagine, but have been flown under a variety of conditions.

Ross,

I would agree with you but the truth is when I have flown my friends F model Mooneys I do not notice a difference in my ROC, but when we are flying together I out climb them. once at altitude our airspeed are with in a few knots for the same power setting.

 

Brian

[DaV8or]

Like I said before, the G is a great value when compared with the rest of the GA fleet. It is optimal for someone who is cross shopping the Piper Arrow, or the Cessna Cardinal, or the Cessna Cutlass, or the Beech Sierra, or the Grumman Tiger. The M20G cna be found better equipped, in better condition for less money and it's as fast or faster than any of these on the same fuel burn.

 

On the other hand, if the shopper has fallen in love with Mooneys and knows they only want one type of Mooney, then I would not recommend it. You will always wish you bought the other plane because it's faster and it's what everybody else is talking about.

[MyNameIsNobody]

That is the logic E buyers also use...

[Shadrach]

Ross,

I would agree with you but the truth is when I have flown my friends F model Mooneys I do not notice a difference in my ROC, but when we are flying together I out climb them. once at altitude our airspeed are with in a few knots for the same power setting.

 

Brian

Perhaps, it's the man and not the machine! :-)

[HRM]

That is the logic E buyers also use...

 

What? That some of them are Super?

 

Who doesn't want Super?

 

Superman. Superwoman. Superboy. Supergirl. Superdog. Super 21...what's not to love?

 

Well, maybe not Supercat.

[eman1200]

What? That some of them are Super?

Who doesn't want Super?

Superman. Superwoman. Superboy. Supergirl. Superdog. Super 21...what's not to love?

Well, maybe not Supercat.

Superglue is pretty cool...

[M20F-1968]

Prior post in thread:   Every G I have ever seen, though, has had the twisted wing, which I am subjectively not a huge fan of. 

 

I have a 68 F with a twisted wing and many mods.  It is a 160 kt airplane at 10,000 ft and a 170+ airplane at 17,000 ft.  Stall is pretty benign.

 

John Breda

[carusoam]

John has enough RayJays and the experience to plumb one for your 201, Jim....

That would be cool?

[Bob_Belville]

eman1200, if you come to MRN for the prebuy give me a heads up and I'll come out to the airport to say hello. We have 5 Mooneys here, my E, an F and 3 Js.

[eman1200]

eman1200, if you come to MRN for the prebuy give me a heads up and I'll come out to the airport to say hello. We have 5 Mooneys here, my E, an F and 3 Js.

Will do!

I didn't get to see it last weekend, hopefully this weekend works. I got an inside tip that the plane needs some work but who knows, I'll keep y'all updated.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Prior post in thread:   Every G I have ever seen, though, has had the twisted wing, which I am subjectively not a huge fan of. 

 

I have a 68 F with a twisted wing and many mods.  It is a 160 kt airplane at 10,000 ft and a 170+ airplane at 17,000 ft.  Stall is pretty benign.

 

John Breda

Just your average run of the mill "F"...F stands for Fully updated to 21st century sparing no expense.

[Browncbr1]

Ross,

I would agree with you but the truth is when I have flown my friends F model Mooneys I do not notice a difference in my ROC, but when we are flying together I out climb them. once at altitude our airspeed are with in a few knots for the same power setting.

Brian

Carrying what kind of load? The Gs I've seen have significantly less useful load. I would think that at gross, the G would be quite slow compared to the F carrying the same load.