Winchester, TN Mooney Accident, 18 April

[flyntgr1]

Was there rain in the area the day of or before the accident? I'm just wondering if it another example of water in the fuel system?

Yes there has been a lot of rain around here the last week or so.

[PTK]

Glad all are ok.

What is it with these __ Pressly's. All we hear are accidents and disasters.

[Shadrach]

George is spot on!

 

The Type Certificate Data Sheet lists the number of seats as 4. 

 

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/cd54a24fc81bae1c86257df20054b12c/$FILE/2A3_Rev_56.pdf

 

For the M20J the POH Section II - Limitations. Flight Crew: Pilot.....1, Maximum Passenger Seating Configuration.....3 http://www.deltaaviationllc.com/Nav%20Page/POH/M20J%20POH3203B.pdf

 

Yes, back in the day (M20C for example) the weight and balance data was separate from the 'Owners Manual' so no loading info other than max gross is listed in the 'Owners Manual'. Don't know what that factory providing loading chart looked like, but I can be certain it will not say anything contrary to the TCDS. http://www.deltaaviationllc.com/Nav%20Page/POH/M20C%201966%20Mark%2021.pdf

 

A certified aircraft must be operated in accordance with its TCDS, so if the aircraft was equipped and certified with 4 seats then that's what you've got to work with.

Spot on for what? George made no speculation about the cause. He speculated about the legality. Did 5 passengers make it fall out of the sky? I'm interested in finding out what caused the crash, unless you think the airplane decided to crash on the basis of the TCDS? It is not uncommon for folks to hold children too small for their own belts in their laps or strapped to their bodies. I have seen no reg forbidding this means of transport (not that I endorse it). If you have, please post it. I think I have a general idea of why this plane crashed, but I'll wait for those investigating to confirm.

[Shadrach]

Glad all are ok.

What is it with these __ Pressly's. All we hear are accidents and disasters.

They have a verifiable history of flying and selling aircraft that have been poorly maintained or repaired. I have spoken with both Jerry and Brent when buying parts. They always delivered what they said they would but what I bought were the type of non-critical to flight parts that an inspection can easily verify as serviceable.

[GeorgePerry]

Let me be clear...I have no idea why the plane went down.  My only point is that putting 5 people in a plane equipped and certified for 4 is a bad idea, and by doing so the pilots actions reflect badly on us all as a community.  

 

GA is small and getting smaller.  We can not afford this type of behavior because it validates the public's collective consciousness that "small planes, and sometimes their pilots" are dangerous.  

 

The cause and legalities will be sorted by the FAA and NTSB in the days and weeks to come.

[kmyfm20s]

This is from a post on Beechtalk,

I arrived in Winchester about an hour after the crash. As I was descending to the airport, ATC asked me to listen on guard for an ELT, and it was audible. The Mooney crashed on the road at the departure end of rwy 18. The airport manager said she watched the plane load with what she thought were four very large adults, but turns out there were five. She said the pilot was a large guy, but each passenger was even bigger. The plane struggled to gain altitude and bobbed up and down - probably on the edge of a stall. The pilot started a turn to the left and dropped down to the road. The airport manager said she pulled her phone from her pocket even before the plane hit.

Not sure how you get five people in a Mooney, especially five very large people.

Passengers were taken out by Medflight, but the pilot was walking around at the accident scene.

[atn_pilot]

Damn, I wouldn't even like three "large" people crammed into my plane, let alone five.

[Shadrach]

Something seems fishy. Physically there is not a large enough void in C cabin to fit 5 "large" people.  I suppose people will endure the discomfort for a short flight. I'm betting it was shorter than expected.

[kerry]

Something seems fishy. Physically there is not a large enough void in C cabin to fit 5 "large" people.  I suppose people will endure the discomfort for a short flight. I'm betting it was shorter than expected.

Sure there is.  Just grease down their hips and throw a twinky in the Mooney. 

[FloridaMan]

Something seems fishy. Physically there is not a large enough void in C cabin to fit 5 "large" people.  I suppose people will endure the discomfort for a short flight. I'm betting it was shorter than expected.

 

Maybe they had one in the trunk.

 

Last time there was a plane related to those guys it was the guy who'd been drinking in the repaired submarine M20E and ran out of gas. IIRC, there was something else -- he was out of medical or the plane was out of annual; I can't remember. 

 

I've spoken with the Pressly folks before and they've been helpful and seemed knowledgeable. 

 

There is, at a minimum, a superficial risk associated with purchasing a plane from a salvage outfit. If both the submarine repair and this accident are the result of very poor preflight planning, both pilots clearly demonstrated a greater propensity towards risk-taking than most pilots I know and/or a lack of due-diligence in buying an airplane from a salvage outfit to begin with. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Here are aviation nuggets I have learned:

1. Aviation and alcohol do not mix. If you are under the influence stay away from airplanes...

2. Flying airplanes that are overloaded may be hazardous to your and others health. Don't fly or be a passenger in an overloaded plane.

3. People are often ignorant. Alcohol magnifies this....

[Jerry Pressley]

Never ceases to amaze me. man tries to steal a good plane for peanuts and when someone else buys it, then it automatically becomes a dangerous piece of junk.   Pressley bought it  and did a thorough annual.  Flew it quite a bit himself and delivered it to the buyer in Winchester and flew back to Morristown tn where the new buyer and his instructor dropped him off.  FAA investigated thoroughly and found it was making full power but just didn't have enough oomph to do it  with  5 adults.  One full grown woman in the baggage compartment.  I bet half the plane on this Mooney space went through one of the 4 Pressley's hands in its lifetime.  They have revived more Mooneys than anyone else alive. One of them has over 30,000m hours in Mooneys from woodwing 150 hp through Acclaims. And more parts than  anyone outside the factory.  All bargains too...just my 3 cents

[Shadrach]

Never ceases to amaze me. man tries to steal a good plane for peanuts and when someone else buys it, then it automatically becomes a dangerous piece of junk.   Pressley bought it  and did a thorough annual.  Flew it quite a bit himself and delivered it to the buyer in Winchester and flew back to Morristown tn where the new buyer and his instructor dropped him off.  FAA investigated thoroughly and found it was making full power but just didn't have enough oomph to do it  with  5 adults.  One full grown woman in the baggage compartment.  I bet half the plane on this Mooney space went through one of the 4 Pressley's hands in its lifetime.  They have revived more Mooneys than anyone else alive. One of them has over 30,000m hours in Mooneys from woodwing 150 hp through Acclaims. And more parts than  anyone outside the factory.  All bargains too...just my 3 cents

 

 

Thanks Jerry!

[Marauder]

Never ceases to amaze me. man tries to steal a good plane for peanuts and when someone else buys it, then it automatically becomes a dangerous piece of junk. Pressley bought it and did a thorough annual. Flew it quite a bit himself and delivered it to the buyer in Winchester and flew back to Morristown tn where the new buyer and his instructor dropped him off. FAA investigated thoroughly and found it was making full power but just didn't have enough oomph to do it with 5 adults. One full grown woman in the baggage compartment. I bet half the plane on this Mooney space went through one of the 4 Pressley's hands in its lifetime. They have revived more Mooneys than anyone else alive. One of them has over 30,000m hours in Mooneys from woodwing 150 hp through Acclaims. And more parts than anyone outside the factory. All bargains too...just my 3 cents

I'm having a hard time following you. The accident just happened, how did the "FAA determine" that the plane just didn't have enough "oomph" to do it with 5 people. Has the NTSB (the FAA doesn't do the accident investigations) already posted the "oomph" preliminary?

BTW - I will take you up on your bet. I doubt of the 10,000+ Mooneys built, the Pressleys have seen a fraction of them.

What I will say is that the Pressleys have had a string of bad luck. Maybe they should do a better job of who they are selling to. The two owners who we know about that crashed Pressley rebuilt Mooneys (the guy flying drunk in Ohio -- correct me if I got the state wrong and this pilot -- if he did indeed have a woman in the baggage compartment) aren't helping their cause.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Sure there is.  Just grease down their hips and throw a twinky in the Mooney.

Isn't there an F model on this forum whith a fairly large harem? Perhaps he may shed some light on fitting "larger" objects in a Mooney.

Clarence

[Wakeup]

If Marauder put one of "His" girls in the baggage compartment the airplane would have been converted into a "tail dragger". Troy

[Shadrach]

Isn't there an F model on this forum whith a fairly large harem? Perhaps he may shed some light on fitting "larger" objects in a Mooney.

Clarence

I've heard he uses bacon and bacon grease, though not necessarily in that order.

[Yooper Rocketman]

Isn't there an F model on this forum whith a fairly large harem? Perhaps he may shed some light on fitting "larger" objects in a Mooney.

Clarence

 

Last time I commented on his "harem" I asked if he had seen a doctor about that problem.  His response was he had been to a dentist twice.  I don't EVEN want to know why he needed to see a dentist about his fetish and relationship with those girls................

[Hank]

Last time I commented on his "harem" I asked if he had seen a doctor about that problem.  His response was he had been to a dentist twice.  I don't EVEN want to know why he needed to see a dentist about his fetish and relationship with those girls................

Peter is a dentist . . . They're both in the NJ group.

[Peetee]

Pictures on Beechtalk taken by one of the passengers just before the crash and obtained by a news channel show 5 well built adults inc one in the luggage compartment!

Looks like natural selection just missed out this time.

[Marauder]

Glad the "likes" were increased. Just used a few on you boys -- at my expense.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

Pictures on Beechtalk taken by one of the passengers just before the crash and obtained by a news channel show 5 well built adults inc one in the luggage compartment!

Looks like natural selection just missed out this time.

Unbelievable! Why didn't I realize that you could carry passengers in the baggage compartment?! I have been using mine to store the snacks for my girls...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[chrisk]

Those are not small people.  I'd guess 1000+ lbs with no fuel.  Maybe 1200 to 1300 lbs with fuel.  So, over loading probably contributed.  It will be interesting to see what the NTSB investigation finds. 

[Bob_Belville]

Next time someone tries to tell you that M20Cs & M20Es are only good for 2 souls on board... 

 

Wonder if the gal in the back had a head set? (There might have been a luggage strap/seat belt.) Inquiring minds want to know. I'm thinking a blood test for all involved would be in order.

[Shadrach]

Unbelievable! Why didn't I realize that you could carry passengers in the baggage compartment?! I have been using mine to store the snacks for my girls...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Like a big aluminum feedbag.