It's time for the GPS

[MooneyBob]

I finally decide to get the GPS. I have no experiences with any panel installed GPS units so far. I use Garmin Pilot app and I like it. That's why I am leaning towards Garmin either 650 or 750.

1. Any reason to go with 750 except larger screen? Is the 650 small for aging eyes?

2. Any reason take a serious look at the Avidyne IFD540?

3. What is the expected price for installed 650 and 750?

4. Any other equipment recommended to comply with the ADS-B out?

5. Any recommended avionic shops in the NJ, PA, NY area?

Thanks

[carusoam]

Spend a moment look at a BK KSN770...

If nothing else the competition should be good for pricing.

The G company is busy nickel and diming their customers.

Unfortunately, the BK unit had been reviewed as not ready for prime time yet...

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

I finally decide to get the GPS. I have no experiences with any panel installed GPS units so far. I use Garmin Pilot app and I like it. That's why I am leaning towards Garmin either 650 or 750.

1. Any reason to go with 750 except larger screen? Is the 650 small for aging eyes?

2. Any reason take a serious look at the Avidyne IFD540?

3. What is the expected price for installed 650 and 750?

4. Any other equipment recommended to comply with the ADS-B out?

5. Any recommended avionic shops in the NJ, PA, NY area?

Thanks

Bob - if you are not planning on having a 695 or 795 or some other MFD in the panel, I would with the 750.

I have a 650 and I can see it fine. But once I get flightplan loaded, I'm looking at the Aspens.

For your other questions:

3) $13.5k for 650 and $17.Xk for the 750

4) If you intend on going the poor house, you might as well get the GDL-88 and Flighstream 210 since you like GP. Plan on another $8k

5) Look around, get quotes not estimates and drop the NJ Mooney group a note on who are considering.

[larryb]

What's the motivation, the goal? LPV approaches? GPSS for your auto-pilot? Traffic? Weather? Reliability? Redundancy? HSI? XM? Battery backup? Audio terrain alerts? Just the GPS, or replacing everything? And of course, the budget?

 

I elected to get the smaller 650 and use the $5,000 saved to buy a 796 giving me XM, battery backup, audio alerts, large screen, etc. By itself, the 650 is a bit small.

[MooneyBob]

What's the motivation, the goal? LPV approaches? GPSS for your auto-pilot? Traffic? Weather? Reliability? Redundancy? HSI? XM? Battery backup? Audio terrain alerts? Just the GPS, or replacing everything? And of course, the budget?

 

I elected to get the smaller 650 and use the $5,000 saved to buy a 796 giving me XM, battery backup, audio alerts, large screen, etc. By itself, the 650 is a bit small.

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Good points. I need to learn a little more about that in order to make right decision. Thanks.

[Marauder]

.

Good points. I need to learn a little more about that in order to make right decision. Thanks.

Show us a picture of your panel. We'll help you spend your money

[stevesm20b]

Boshart aviation does excellent work. They are at the Genesee county airport in Batavia NY.

[MooneyBob]

Show us a picture of your panel. We'll help you spend your money

Here are some pics. I'd like to keep the strikefinder and I have purchased CGR30P premium package engine monitor that will go in instead of DG. I have limited budget though. Around 20k?

Autopilot is Century IIB. No altitude hold.

[ArtVandelay]

Here are some pics. I'd like to keep the strikefinder and I have purchased CGR30P premium package engine monitor that will go in instead of DG. I have limited budget though. Around 20k?

Autopilot is Century IIB. No altitude hold.

I would remove ADF, plus replacing the radio you have room for 650, not sure about 750.

650 installed, with GDL88 and Flightstream 210, will run you about 20K, gives you ADSB, traffic, weather, WAAS, the traffic and WX can be displayed on your iPad, thereby using the iPad as a MFD making up for the smaller screen size of the 650.

[Guest]

Bendix King have a trading program for their older units when going to the 770. Sun n Fun is not too far away, I'd go shop and educate yourself in the mean time.

Clarence

[Marauder]

Ok Bob. Looks like a 1977 J. I agree with TJ, get rid of the ADF. I would look to get rid of the KMA 20 audio panel and replace it with a PS Engineering 450 (I think that is the model). Sell one of your KX-155 for some extra money.

If you go 750 and put in the audio panel, you're done for budget. A 650 with a GDL-88 and the FlightStream 210, no audio panel upgrade will get you around $20k.

The more you can afford now, the cheaper the installation. If you were able to fund $30k, you would have more options.

[Marauder]

Bob - noticed a couple of other things. I would remove the LORAN and DME as well. The DME can be sold. There is still a market for them. The LORAN is a boat anchor.

Free up the additional weight and panel space and you may be able to slide a 695 or 795 in a mount on the right.

You also have a second DG, I would considering removing it and putting your engine analyzer in that spot.

[Danb]

Bob I'd also dump the Loran..you'd be freeing up quite a bit of space also think of Adsb. Yuck. Have fun spending. You most likely have worked hard for it..

[TWinter]

650-w/ remote transponder / GDL88 / Keep one 155 and move it over / Aera 796 (used) / JPI 830 =  $21K +/-

[Bob_Belville]

Bob,  for the difference in cost I'd go with the 750, I don't think you'll be sorry.

 

You can lose one of the 155s, the DME, ADF, Loran.. so there should be plenty of room. There's still a pretty good market for the 155 and the ADF. (Someone in Canada or overseas will snap up the ADF on Ebay.) Check Bennett Aviation's site for a feel for retail prices for the used components. I think you can net enough $$$ to pay for the 750 vs the 650. 

 

Look into GPSS and what you'll need to do it with your HSI/AP. Marauder and I have Aspens which replace the HSI and include GPSS for just about any vintage autopilot. 

[Bob - S50]

Bob,

 

We have a 650.  We did it for cost.  We can live with the differences.  One of your original questions was whether screen size was the only difference.  No.

 

1.  When inputting waypoints, the 750 gives you a full keyboard of characters.  The 650 gives you a horizontal list.  You touch the list in different areas to make 5 keys active then select your desired key.  So for example, if I was going to enter one of local waypoints "VAMPS", on the 750, once the keyboard was displayed I would touch V A M P S and enter.  6 keystrokes.  On the 650 I touch in the area of the V then touch V.  Touch in the area of A then touch A.  Touch in the area of O which will display both the M and the P, then touch M and P.  Touch in the area of S and touch S, then enter.  10 keystrokes.

 

2.  If you so choose, you can have charts (approach plates) displayed on the 750 but not on the 650.  I'm happy using my smartphone to display the approach plate.  Cheaper my way too if I remember right.

 

3.  The 750 will display active and standby Comm and Nav frequencies all the time.  The 650 will display one or the other, you push a button to switch between the two.  The Nav freqs will only be displayed for about 30 seconds then go back to Comm.  Not really a big deal.  The only time I care about Nav freqs is when I'm setting up for an ILS.  Switch to Nav, set the freq (or at least check that the unit set it for me) then back to Comm.

 

4.  I believe the 750 will display more data on some screens.  For example on the flight plan page, the 650 will show bearing and distance from one point to the next.  I think the 750 will also display total distance from your current location to each point.  Probably some other display differences too.

 

5.  On several screens such as the home screen, on the 650 you may need to scroll down to find the option you are looking for such as Utilities on the Home screen.  On the 750 all options will be displayed at the same time.

 

So bottom line, other than screen size and the ability to display approach plates on the unit, the main difference is the ability to take the same action in fewer keystrokes.  You have to decide if that's worth $4000 to you or not.  It wasn't to us.

 

Bob

[slowflyin]

I did the 650 and use a hardwired 796 as a poor man's MFD.   Without a secondary screen-796,696, even maybe an ipad I could see an argument for the 750.  Not alot of real-estate on the 650.      Of course the flight stream 210 will level the playing with regard to flight plan entry.  

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35880-/

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35879-center-panel/

[Jerry 5TJ]

Old wiring can be a problem and a cause of troubles blamed on the boxes.

While you're doing all that box upgrade consider a new wiring harness as well.

[larryb]

Another thing to keep in mind, many KX155's interfere with GPS signals when TX on certain frequencies. Mine did this. Rather than spend valuable shop time trying to fix this problem, I elected to replaced with an SL30. I've heard that some people can get by with a simple antenna filter, where others simply can't be fixed.

 

The certification test requires that the GPS stay active when the microphone is keyed on the following frequencies:

121.150
121.175
121.200
131.250
131.275
131.300

 

Before I did my upgrade, I tested this with my 496 on the satellite signal page. When keying on those frequencies, the gps signal promptly went to 0 and the gps lost lock within a few seconds. Right then I knew that radio would be replaced.

 

Larry

[ArtVandelay]

BTW, regarding 650 data entry, you can still use the knobs like you would on a 430

[ArtVandelay]

Ok Bob. Looks like a 1977 J. I agree with TJ, get rid of the ADF. I would look to get rid of the KMA 20 audio panel and replace it with a PS Engineering 450 (I think that is the model). Sell one of your KX-155 for some extra money.

If you go 750 and put in the audio panel, you're done for budget. A 650 with a GDL-88 and the FlightStream 210, no audio panel upgrade will get you around $20k.

The more you can afford now, the cheaper the installation. If you were able to fund $30k, you would have more options.

Why get a new audio panel, he may not need fancy audio panel with Bluetooth, music?

[Marauder]

Why get a new audio panel, he may not need fancy audio panel with Bluetooth, music?

He has a Sigtronics 2 place intercom. Back seat passengers are probably not wired in. No music, no telephone, no last message recording, no dual com (pilot & co on separate frequencies) to name a few. I had a 20 and Sig, they had minimum capabilities.

[Jim Peace]

Bob -  I would remove the DME as well. The DME can be sold.

Why remove DME,,,I just read that there will still be 500 VOR stations in the USA out to 2025....

 

still a useful tool if and when the GPS fails.....

[Marauder]

Why remove DME,,,I just read that there will still be 500 VOR stations in the USA out to 2025....

still a useful tool if and when the GPS fails.....

I haven't missed my DME since I pulled it. And for the money you can get for it I thought it was a good trade off.

[ArtVandelay]

Why remove DME,,,I just read that there will still be 500 VOR stations in the USA out to 2025....

still a useful tool if and when the GPS fails.....

One reason is if you go GDL88 route, it needs its own antenna, so with transponder and DME, that's 3 blade antennas on the bottom, probably 1 too many for my taste