First Annual Inspection

[Guest]

Jim,

At this point who cares if the shop charges you for a " bullshit inspection"? You want your airplane and everything that belongs to you back in the condition in which you gave it to him.

Not knowing how the FAA ferry permit process works, I would assume that he has to make an entry in your logs stating he has inspected and found the plane fit for the intended ferry flight. After that he would be hard pressed that he has no logs to return to you or the pilot in charge of picking up your plane.

If there is an invoice be sure you don't settle it until all your stuff is returned.

I hope it works for you,

Clarence

[helitim]

So back to the original question really quick - IF I choose to go with a MSC, it would be between LASAR and Top Gun. I know people have been happy with LASAR, but what about Top Gun? Has anybody had good/bad experiences with them? Top Gun would be more convenient for me location-wise.

This may not answer your question completely but, I feel compelled to share my experience with Top Gun. Last Friday I departed enroute to CPU for an electronics issue. Got there and the airport was 300' ceiling but only about 500' thick. Stockton was the closest airport that I knew for sure was clear enough to land so I fly back. Having never been to Top Gun, I decided to taxi over and visit. When I pulled up there were 8 or 10 mooneys parked outside. Looking in the open doors, there were another 7 or 8 Mooneys inside. I wandered in and introduced myself. The mechanic was very nice and directed me to the office to meet Tom Rouch, the founder of Top Gun. Mr Tom is a true gentleman and could not have been nicer. I made it very clear that I was just there to visit and would be spending no money this trip. He just laughed and said "let me show you around". I received a full tour of the facility and Mr Tom talked about most of the planes there and what was being done to them. You may have heard of Don Kaye. He is considered by many to be an exceptional Mooney specific pilot. His plane was there having a new panel put in. If Top Gun is good enough for Don, it's good enough for me. Mr Tom continued by telling me of a pilot from Germany that had called the day before with a technical question that they were able to answer and save the pilot a lot of unneeded work. He then volunteered that if I ever had a question to feel free to call and discuss anything with them at no charge. He was as sincere as I could have hoped for in saying this. After almost an hour, I thanked Mr Tom and left with a very good opinion of Top Gun. Fortunately for me, I rarely ever would have a need for their services but, if I did, I would have no qualms whatsoever in taking my plane there.

One thing I did notice is that they had a lot of planes there so I would suggest calling and making sure they could get started on your project in a timely manner so as to not have a long delay.

My caveat regarding Lasar is simple. I have never been there and know very little about them except from reading other Mooneysace posts and a couple of parts purchases. They provided very good service and shipped the parts that day.

[BigTex]

What I've found is that unless you're using one of the top tier MSC's (Maxwell, Dugosh, LASAR, Cole, Top Gun, etc.) you might as well find a quality A&P near buy and use them.  The top tier MSC's are not cheap but they're fair and I consider that money well spent.  I personally like to alternate my annuals between a MSC and my local A&P.  That way there's a second set of eyes and any Mooney specific item that was overlooked by my local A&P, they'd catch it.

[Jim Peace]

What I've found is that unless you're using one of the top tier MSC's (Maxwell, Dugosh, LASAR, Cole, Top Gun, etc.) you might as well find a quality A&P near buy and use them.  

This is what I find outrageous.  If you are not top tier and don't provide quality safe" timely"work then you should not be able to call yourself a MSC.  I think Mooney hands out MSC titles to anyone as long as a mechanic from that shop goes to Texas for a cup of coffee.  I don't know why they do that.

[Marauder]

This is what I find outrageous. If you are not top tier and don't provide quality safe" timely"work then you should not be able to call yourself a MSC. I think Mooney hands out MSC titles to anyone as long as a mechanic from that shop goes to Texas for a cup of coffee. I don't know why they do that.

Most of these shops are legacy -- from prior Mooney ownerships. I suspect over time as the new Mooney gets fully operational, they will review their service center strategy and revisit who should still be allowed to be called a Mooney Service Center.

I would like to see some sort of rating system for these shops. Like auto dealerships receive (Chrysler 5 Star Program, etc.). Just because you are carrying the brand, doesn't mean you are maintaining the quality.

[Bob_Belville]

I suppose is in very naive to think the MSC designation should be a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. There are Garmin dealers and Garmin dealers. And that's surely true of any brand name. 

 

It seems to me that it is not in the factory's interest to represent that it only has 8 or 10 authorized maintenance facilities in the whole country, that could not be good for a potential owner who would be hesitant to buy a plane that had to be taken hundreds of miles for service.

[ryoder]

Sorry to hear that. I'm going to have a good old fashioned IA do mine and I am going to assist him. He is the kind of guy who I can call on my cell with a problem and five minutes later he is rolling over to my hangar in his golf cart to look at the bird.

Good luck on the annual.

[Bob_Belville]

Sorry to hear that. I'm going to have a good old fashioned IA do mine and I am going to assist him. He is the kind of guy who I can call on my cell with a problem and five minutes later he is rolling over to my hangar in his golf cart to look at the bird.

Good luck on the annual.

I have exactly such a jewel of a mechanic. 

[Jim Peace]

Perhaps a moderator of this site, if there is one, can add a new section just for the purposes of us rating all of the MSC listed on Mooney's site.  It would have saved me a lot of trouble being that no one here has ever heard of or commented on the MSC I am almost free of......

[RobertGary1]

I'll share what I've learned in 15 years of ownership of my Mooney.

 

When I first bought my Mooney the kids were young and I was flying them across the Sierras, Gulf of Mexico, remote Canada, IFR, night,etc. To manage the risk I committed myself to a couple things

1) Get an IPC every 6 months even though I didn't need it

2) Get a new rating every 2 years

3) Rotate annuals between the top Mooney shops each year

 

After each annual I'd do my own post annual inspection. Several times I had a pretty serious "holy %()$" moment. What I discovered is that regardless of what you pay for at a shop, the guy working on your plane is making just over minimum wage and would probably prefer to work at the Ford dealership if he had the chance. Rarely is that guy a pilot. On one occasion I pointed out a critical mistake to a mechanic at a major MSC shop. I them mentioned my kids, Gulf of Mexico, etc. By the look on his face it was clear he never considered the degree of ramifications of a mistake in his profession. 

 

After that I decided that if I was going to keep my Mooney I needed to take over the maintenance myself. In 15 years in the Mooney community I've found that probably 80% of owners are in STEM professions. If you passed Calc III at some point in your life there really isn't much going on in a Mooney that isn't outside your grasp. You'll just need to learn the standards and practices, have a mentor you can call for advice and a good IA who is willing to inspect and sign for your work (easier than you think).

 

I've found the MSC are great sources of advice and I call them with Mooney specific maintenance questions. In return I route as many of my parts purchases through them as practical. 

 

For me, working on my own plane isn't about saving money, its about safety. There is one person who cares about your butt in that seat at 10,000 feet. Honestly if I couldn't carve out the time to work on my Mooney I'd probably feel safer selling it at that point.

 

-Robert, CFII

[Jim Peace]

 

 

After each annual I'd do my own post annual inspection. Several times I had a pretty serious "holy %()$" moment. What I discovered is that regardless of what you pay for at a shop, the guy working on your plane is making just over minimum wage and would probably prefer to work at the Ford dealership if he had the chance. Rarely is that guy a pilot. On one occasion I pointed out a critical mistake to a mechanic at a major MSC shop. I them mentioned my kids, Gulf of Mexico, etc. By the look on his face it was clear he never considered the degree of ramifications of a mistake in his profession. 

 

-Robert, CFII

Nice post......just reinforces that the MSC sign on the side of the hangar means NOTHING.....

[Guest]

Nice post......just reinforces that the MSC sign on the side of the hangar means NOTHING.....

Jim,

 

With all due respect, being approved by Mooney means something to many posters here, myself included.  You need to get yourself a narrower paint brush and stop painting us all with the same brush.   Many have pointed out that you do have options in getting your plane freed up from your current situation.  Take the advise and move on.

 

Perhaps you would care to post the shop you are dealing with.  I personally would love to hear his/her side of the story.

 

Clarence

[bonal]

Perhaps you would care to post the shop you are dealing with.  I personally would love to hear his/her side of the story

 

That is a good point

 

This post has been kidnapped, original guy I think you will do fine at Top Gun but I cant stress enough about not being involved with some level of hands on or at least eyes on.

 

good luck

[Jim Peace]

Jim,

 

With all due respect, being approved by Mooney means something to many posters here, myself included.  You need to get yourself a narrower paint brush and stop painting us all with the same brush.   Many have pointed out that you do have options in getting your plane freed up from your current situation.  Take the advise and move on.

 

Perhaps you would care to post the shop you are dealing with.  I personally would love to hear his/her side of the story.

 

Clarence

Advice was taken and is in the process.  the plane is not out of there yet so I do not want to say what shop it is.  I am sure you can appreciate that.  

when this is all over, if you like I will send you the email exchanges between me and this shop....but right now no way...........

 

Not all shops are the same so that is why I suggested we start a rating thread or section on this site.  If a shop wants to claim they are a MSC then they better bring their "A"game.......

[Guest]

Once we get the new MSC rating system, can the maintainers get a similar one to rate customers as well.  Memebers of the CB (Hons) will of course will be exempt.

 

Clarence

[Jim Peace]

 

This post has been kidnapped, original guy I think you will do fine at Top Gun but I cant stress enough about not being involved with some level of hands on or at least eyes on.

 

good luck

The original guy wrote me a private message thanking me for bringing all this to light.  Said this is exactly what he was looking for.

[Jim Peace]

Once we get the new MSC rating system, can the maintainers get a similar one to rate customers as well.  Memebers of the CB (Hons) will of course will be exempt.

 

Clarence

I welcome it.  I have maintained my planes with an open checkbook.  almost no questions asked when it comes to safety.  That is why I wanted a MSC to begin with.  I have learned very quickly and painfully that MSC in a name means NOTHING......I want to share my story so others may learn.....that is the purpose of this site,,,no?

 

the last two mx visits I had to my previous mechanic who will now be doing the work I paid most of the labor in advance to show good faith.  how many of your clients do that, truthfully tell me?

 

If you have been reading these posts you will see that many agree.  Not all MSC are the same....some are down right awful. 

 

You seem like one of those people who hate yelp..............

[carusoam]

Jim,

Your broad brush is annoying people.

Do you understand that?

You have a challenge with one company and continue to bash all that have an MSC sign.

We have a place for ongoing arguments and bashing...

Please visit op-ed with Timmy.

Again,

I appreciate your point. Wish you some resolution.

I don't agree with the need or desire to bash something officially.

It doesn't promote Mooney ownership that is what this site is trying to do. See?

Best regards,

-a-

[xrs135]

The original guy wrote me a private message thanking me for bringing all this to light.  Said this is exactly what he was looking for.

I do appreciate everyone's insight. I agree with others that you may have taken it just a little bit too far at this point. We understand that you are having a bad experience with your MSC, but you shouldn't automatically assume all MSC's are the devil. Fact of the matter is that there are good shops, and there are bad shops. The original intent of the thread was to get different opinions/viewpoints so that I can make a well informed decision when it comes time to choose my shop. I've decided what I'm going to do at this point, based off of everyone's opinions...  and again, I appreciated everyone that contributed to this thread. Thanks guys!

[ArtVandelay]

If you have been reading these posts you will see that many agree. Not all MSC are the same....some are down right awful.

You seem like one of those people who hate yelp..............

Occasionally the problem is with the customer not the business, sometimes we let emotions poison a relationship, We've only heard one side of the story, I think many are reluctant to condemn others based on 1 opinion alone.

[bonal]

That's fine Jim, I just wanted to make sure our original posted question about shops in his area was not forgotten and I hope you are able to resolve your issue and get your aircraft back in the sky soon.

[mike_elliott]

Where is the plane? Maybe someone on Mooneyspace would be willing to ferry the plane for you?

I mean, we've all watched that show about repossessing airplanes. 

 Im a friend of the hired gun pilot they used to repo a warrior last year on TV. He says he has turned down further gig's from them because they never paid him

[aaronk25]

So what shop is it? I've read through all these posts and it's kinda a waste of time as all I can gather by this post is there are good MSCs and bad ones....so what......

Yep I got screwed real bad by the Willmar MSC. If there is another shop we should look into further, I'd like to know who, so we can at least ask a couple more qualifying questions prior to doing business with them.

Mooney, as far as I can tell has there hands full and isn't yet concerned about the quality of service being extended to their customers, at least on the service side.

[mike_elliott]

Mooney, as far as I can tell has there hands full and isn't yet concerned about the quality of service being extended to their customers, at least on the service side.

[Jim Peace]

I would like to see some sort of rating system for these shops. Like auto dealerships receive (Chrysler 5 Star Program, etc.). Just because you are carrying the brand, doesn't mean you are maintaining the quality.

I guess I am not the only one.......Moderators is it possible to list all the MSC's and have a rating system?