ADS-B is coming-What are you doing about it?

[ArtVandelay]

I have the GDL393d + iPad + Bose A20.  How do I get the warnings (traffic) to audible in my headset by bluetooth?  That would be great.

If you have the A20 with Bluetooth, should be able just to sync up the iPad with the A20, if you don't have the bluetooth option...get an audio patch cable, connect it audio input on the headset battery pack and the headset jack on the ipad.

You can ground test this by just playing some music, you should hear in stereo.

[N601RX]

Not everyone wants or needs an ADSB transponder. Out of the 30 planes hangered at my airport, there may be 3 that will upgrade by 2020.  The others will keep flying local as they have been and avoid airspace that requires one. The used market for non ADSB transponders still exist and is decent.  I put an extra working KT 76 on ebay a while back and got almost 600 for it.  Used garmin 327's still sell for over $1200.  They still sell for the same reason other older used avionics sell.  There are people who have a bad one and want a slide in replacement that they can slide in themselves and be back flying as cheaply as possible without having to pay someone install something new. They simply see a $600 option to get back flying vs spending $2500-$3000 to get anything new installed.

[N601RX]

I am very close to pulling the trigger on some kind of solution.  Last week, literally the day I was going to agree to a quote to install a GTX330ES install, the Trig TT31 was fully certified.  Now that is my current install leader, but I am preferring the KT74 which hopefully will be certified very soon since it is supposedly "just like" the TT31.  I like the KT74 since I prefer the way you enter squak codes with buttons rather than twist and press.    Plus it looks nicer and is slightly less expensive.

 

Where would one sell a working KT76A?

 

I have the GDL393d + iPad + Bose A20.  How do I get the warnings (traffic) to audible in my headset by bluetooth?  That would be great.

I use Foreflight and Zulu 2's connected with Bluetooth and hear all the alerts that ForeFlight generates.  In Foreflight there is an option to enable audio alerts. The Zulu also has an app for recording any conversation over the radio.

[aviatoreb]

If you have the A20 with Bluetooth, should be able just to sync up the iPad with the A20, if you don't have the bluetooth option...get an audio patch cable, connect it audio input on the headset battery pack and the headset jack on the ipad.

You can ground test this by just playing some music, you should hear in stereo.

 

Silly me - I didn't realize I could use the blue tooth option (yes I have it) for my Garmin app/ipad that way.  I did try a patch cable and it was making an annoying click in addition to the other sounds so I cut that out.

[aviatoreb]

Not everyone wants or needs an ADSB transponder. Out of the 30 planes hangered at my airport, there may be 3 that will upgrade by 2020.  The others will keep flying local as they have been and avoid airspace that requires one. The used market for non ADSB transponders still exist and is decent.  I put an extra working KT 76 on ebay a while back and got almost 600 for it.  Used garmin 327's still sell for over $1200.  They still sell for the same reason other older used avionics sell.  There are people who have a bad one and want a slide in replacement that they can slide in themselves and be back flying as cheaply as possible without having to pay someone install something new. They simply see a $600 option to get back flying vs spending $2500-$3000 to get anything new installed.

 

$600?  No kidding....

[rbridges]

I am very close to pulling the trigger on some kind of solution.  Last week, literally the day I was going to agree to a quote to install a GTX330ES install, the Trig TT31 was fully certified.  Now that is my current install leader, but I am preferring the KT74 which hopefully will be certified very soon since it is supposedly "just like" the TT31.  I like the KT74 since I prefer the way you enter squak codes with buttons rather than twist and press.    Plus it looks nicer and is slightly less expensive.

 

Where would one sell a working KT76A?

 

I have the GDL393d + iPad + Bose A20.  How do I get the warnings (traffic) to audible in my headset by bluetooth?  That would be great.

 

I'm leaning toward the KT74, also.  I'm just waiting for the STC to get approved.

[VetRepp]

Just received a response from Garmin - (perhaps they monitor Mooneyspace?) - See Post #29
 

Now to see what Mooney Says, I Guess.

 

 

 

"I was not passing the buck, but giving you what is the workings between the OEM and Garmin. We provide the system they determine what they want and the process required and if a field upgrade or factory.
 
#1: The GTX 33 is a HARDWARE and SOFTWARE upgrade or may be a unit exchange. The sw upgrade requirements are determined by the OEM!
#2: The GDL 88 can interface with the G1000, but again the OEM determines when and how that will be accomplished! They must do the certification with the FAA on their equipment.
#3: The OEM will determine if they will require the system to a WAAS'ed GIA63 to install the GDL 88 or not again Contact the OEM to see what they are expecting to be their options!
#4: No the GTS will not meet any of the ADS-B 2020 requirement. It just gives you added data that ATC does not see for some reason.
 
Basically if you want to know when the G1000 will accept the GDL 88 and GTX33es you will need to contact the manufacture of your aircraft. If you want to know what they will require to be completed for that modification you will need to contact the manufacture of that aircraft. They control their upgrades and each manufacturer does their upgrades differently on what upgrades and sw is required."

 

 

 

[VetRepp]

Mooneys Reply (and in <30 min).......

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Roger,
I can offer a few thoughts, but no definite plans.  The Garmin rep is correct.  Mooney is introducing new aircraft with new software/hardware to include ADS-B out, however even this project is not complete as of this writing.  That said, I would not look for the software to be available to the field before 2015.  When production certification is complete, aircraft with existing WAAS may be able to simply install the GTX33es and upgrade software to meet the mandate but even this is tentative at this point in time.  Non-WAAS aircraft will require a Mooney certification program to include additional equipment and software upgrades. At this time, it is still a thought.  This program schedule does not have a firm start date at this time but several options are being discuss for the upgrade.
Bottom line, right now as you said, Mooney is busy with the restart and everyone here is excited about getting the production line spooled up.  Mooney has not forgotten the field and there are many questions just like yours coming in daily so stay tuned…
Regards,

 

 

 

Paul Kehner

 

Technical Support Engineer

----------------------------------------------

 

So  I'm waiting longer as originally planned ,  and hope I don't get caught scrambling

Roger

[ArtVandelay]

 I did try a patch cable and it was making an annoying click in addition to the other sounds so I cut that out.

Did you try that without the headset plugged in? I listening as I type, the fidelity is great.

[drapo]

$600?  No kidding....

Or go with the BK trade-up program and get $300 for your KT76A when you upgrade to a KT74!

http://www.bendixking.com/Trade-Up/Qualifying-Products

[Robert C.]

Roger,

Thanks for chasing this on behalf of all us GX orphans. This is the clearest status update from Mooney I've seen to date. Let's hope they get their act together before 2020

Robert

Mooneys Reply (and in <30 min).......

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Roger,I can offer a few thoughts, but no definite plans.  The Garmin rep is correct.  Mooney is introducing new aircraft with new software/hardware to include ADS-B out, however even this project is not complete as of this writing.  That said, I would not look for the software to be available to the field before 2015.  When production certification is complete, aircraft with existing WAAS may be able to simply install the GTX33es and upgrade software to meet the mandate but even this is tentative at this point in time.  Non-WAAS aircraft will require a Mooney certification program to include additional equipment and software upgrades. At this time, it is still a thought.  This program schedule does not have a firm start date at this time but several options are being discuss for the upgrade. Bottom line, right now as you said, Mooney is busy with the restart and everyone here is excited about getting the production line spooled up.  Mooney has not forgotten the field and there are many questions just like yours coming in daily so stay tuned…Regards,

 

 

 

Paul Kehner

 

Technical Support Engineer

----------------------------------------------

 

So  I'm waiting longer as originally planned ,  and hope I don't get caught scrambling

Roger

[Jimhamilton]

As soon as I get ADS-B the FAA will require CPDLC.  So I won't do anything until the last six months of the window.  Just my two cents.

[cliffy]

You may be lucky and find a shop with open time the last 6 months but?

[Jimhamilton]

Your right, that may be a problem.

[cliffy]

In deference to what I've been saying, I just may wait it out for a couple of years to see what comes to market. I'm able to do my own installs so that takes a big factor out of the issue.  Right now the market is too knew for things to be well established as far as hardware goes and many if not most of the products are not too compatible across the board, especially for legacy airplanes. Even for those with the glass panels things are clouded to say the least (Garmin? R U listening?) . And, like some here, I'm not a fan of proprietary architecture in electronics like Garmin uses. It's a winner for them financially as they are the gorilla in the room but in the end we all lose as a group. I do hope King gets there act together and does a wide application UAT for a reasonable cost (like their Transponder). That would sell big time because I feel UATs are the way to go for legacy a/c. If a portable can be built for less than $1500 with WAAS then there is no reason other than greed that a bolt in couldn't be built for the same price point.  A UAT with/or without (both) WAAS for Out  and WIfi for In on an android or iPad for $2000 or less would capture the market.

[slowflyin]

Much like everyone else if don't like.....high data fees, proprietary stuff, few choices.   That being said, for the third time I've bit the bullet, broke the news to my youngest that there will be no college, and installed Garmin's gear during my panel upgrade.  GTN 650 with GDL88.   I've had a great experience with Garmin's dispatch rate and when I need it, it always works.  Garmin hardware adds the utility to my old F that I need to confidently use it for business.

 

It's my opinion the GA numbers are to small to garner any real leverage on the market.  No research, no expertise...just my gut.  

 

Also, my installer stuck a GDL88 in for a "trial".  I was reluctant.   Don't need it, never had it, always file IFR.....   After 50 hours including NYC and DFW he will never get it back.  I love it!

[Sabremech]

I'm with Cliff in that I'm going to wait it out a bit and see how things shake out. I'll get a little more exposure when we start to equip our Warbird fleet that needs ADS-B. It's going to be interesting as we have very limited space to add this hardware. I can say that the Warbirds will meet the minimum requirement and nothing more.

 David

[cliffy]

daver328  Just remember that unless you go 18,000 and above you don't need an ES xpondr. It won't give you Wx In, you'll still need a UAT for that or other secondary "IN" system. There is no advantage for the "OUT" side of the equation to go ES. You will still need a WAAS onboard to couple with the ES.

[scottfromiowa]

Good AVWEB article on ADS-B's "coming" No surprises for me, just validation.

[cliffy]

When is the AVWEB article?

[slowflyin]

http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/ADS-B-Does-It-Sharpen-the-Have-and-Have-Not-of-Aviation-222611-1.html

[Sabremech]

That is a good article Scott. I don't necessarily agree that the value of an airplane is going to be less because we didn't equip for ADS-B out. I think they're going to be surprised at the number of airplanes and owners who decide not to equip and that there won't be a back log at avionics shops as the deadline nears.

 I'm pretty certain I can fly with some minor adjustments and stay clear of the ADS-B required airspace. Time will tell, but I'm not going to buy into the frenzy that I have to equip early.

 

 David

[Mooneymite]

From AIN:

Europe Delays ADS-B OUT Equipment Mandate Europe has delayed the mandate for ADS-B OUT equipage in its airspace. The earliest ADS-B OUT requirement in Europe was Jan. 8, 2015, for new aircraft, with retrofit installations due Dec. 7, 2017. The new dates are June 8, 2016, for new aircraft and June 7, 2020, for retrofit. The revised date for retrofits is more closely aligned with the U.S. ADS-B OUT mandate, which requires the equipment to be operational in aircraft that fly where transponders are currently required after midnight on Dec. 31, 2019. While some aircraft owners and operators are no doubt hoping that the U.S. mandate will be delayed, FAA Administrator Michael Huerta has repeatedly said that there is no chance of this happening. Speaking late last month at EAA AirVenture 2014, Huerta said, “ADS-B OUT is one of the foundational elements of NextGen and it allows us to bring you many benefits. I know that many of you are concerned about the 2020 mandate to equip with ADS-B OUT. There’s still a five-and-a-half-year window to get that done, but the date is firm. I encourage you to equip before the deadline to avoid delays at repair stations as the deadline draws closer.”

[Sabremech]

"Huerta said, ADS-B Out is one of the foundational elements of NextGen and it allows us to bring you many benefits."

 Really? I see Out as doing nothing but costing me and all of the rest of us a potentially large sum of money for zero benefit. Even ADS-B in doesn't provide me enough to make it worth while at this time to spend the money to equip.

 Can someone explain the many benefits of ADS-B Out as it relates to pilots of general aviation aircraft (Mooney, etc)  and not ATC or the airlines?

 

 David

[Cruiser]

Before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Subcommittee on Aviation on NextGen

June 25, 2014

Statement of Michael G. Whitaker, Deputy Administrator, FAA

(I pulled these excerpts from his testimony)

 

1. Allows more precise and efficient spacing of aircraft, which enables airlines to take advantage of fuel-saving NextGen procedures

2. improving our ability to perform life-saving search-and-rescue operations.

3. the technology upgrades that will enable future capabilities to more efficiently and safely manage existing traffic and incorporate new users in the national air space. 

4. four NextGen areas that will be our priority: performance based navigation; surface operations; multiple runway operations and DataComm

5. we were able to transform Houston’s airspace, thanks to close collaboration with labor, environmental streamlining and concurrent reviews.We flipped the switch on 61 new procedures that take advantage of the precision of GPS technology to untangle the congested airspace shared by multiple airports. These new procedures are estimated to save airlines 3 million gallons of fuel per year while reducing carbon emissions by 31,000 metric tons. That’s the equivalent of removing more than 6,000 cars from the streets of Houston.

6. We plan to replicate or improve upon these benefits at more than a dozen other busy metropolitan areas across the country.

 

 

Does anyone have addition info on "DataComm" ? I have not heard much about this "crucial foundational element of NextGen"