GDL-88 and Garmin's GTS800 series

[TWinter]

Anyone running this combination of traffic/weather. 7741M goes in for annual in a few weeks and I was considering adding GDL-88 and Garmin GTS800 to my GTN-750.

 

Right now I'm using Foreflite and a Stratus 2 with a Zaon XRX. The XRX traffic is displayed on my 696 portable off a windshield mount.  I'm wanting to clean up the dash and have less "stuff" on the dash etc.

 

Looks like a great set-up to get ALL traffic ADS-B and transponder both active and passive. I feel in 2020 not everyone will be ADS-B as there will still be those who don't fly in the airspace that requires the ADS-B.

[ArtVandelay]

I would wait for any new announcements from upcoming Oshkosh before making a decision.

[PTK]

What is the GTX800?

 

Do you mean GTS800?

[TWinter]

Only one cup of coffee...GTS800. Thanks

[PTK]

Only one cup of coffee...GTS800. Thanks

I hear you!

 

I thought (was hoping ) it was something new Garmin is planning to announce!

[DaV8or]

I'd love to have that combo. You're right, ADS-B is not going to reliably show you the whole picture. Adding active transponder interogation is going to really help... if you can afford it. Of course the only thing that might actually show you the whole picture would be on board radar to catch the NORDOs!

 

A budget alternative to your slick GTS-800, GDL-88 set up might be, a GTX-330ES, a GDL-39 and a Monroy ADT 300. This gives you all the capability of what Garmin offers, but not as reliable because you do have to depend on a passing airliner, or such to help out. However, if you're on a budget like me, it does offer bang for the buck and this is the way I'm headed. Unless of course in the next few years something wonderful happens and the price of certified avionics drop to the levels of experimentals.

[Lloyd Babcock]

The weather on ADS B IS NOT VERY GOOD, boxy and Garmin says they can not change it, that's how they get it from FAA.

Traffics is okay, I would wait until the weather production has improved.

[donkaye, MCFI]

Anyone running this combination of traffic/weather. 7741M goes in for annual in a few weeks and I was considering adding GDL-88 and Garmin GTS800 to my GTN-750.

 

Right now I'm using Foreflite and a Stratus 2 with a Zaon XRX. The XRX traffic is displayed on my 696 portable off a windshield mount.  I'm wanting to clean up the dash and have less "stuff" on the dash etc.

 

Looks like a great set-up to get ALL traffic ADS-B and transponder both active and passive. I feel in 2020 not everyone will be ADS-B as there will still be those who don't fly in the airspace that requires the ADS-B.

 

I have this combination and love it.  The best of both worlds.  The active traffic, GTS 800, feeds the ADS-B GDL 88, and the GDL 88 correlates it and presents the most accurate target, if multiple of the same target, on the GTN 750/650.  I will say the target trend of the GDL 88 with its relative motion vector is superior to the active traffic symbol without target trend, but the active traffic box will display transponder equipped traffic anywhere today without the potential need for a GBT.  However, by 2020 when the mandate goes into effect, and with all aircraft that have transponders today requiring ADS-B, the active traffic box may be less useful because you would be picking up ADS-B traffic air to air and no GBT would be necessary.

[Marauder]

The weather on ADS B IS NOT VERY GOOD, boxy and Garmin says they can not change it, that's how they get it from FAA.

Traffics is okay, I would wait until the weather production has improved.

Lloyd -- are you talking about weather further away from your current location or weather close by? The weather that is further away is pixelated by design to minimize the data transfer. But if you scroll over and refresh, it presents a higher density version of it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TWinter]

Thanks for the report Don, I really can't see how this combination would not be a great set-up. I've only read small write-ups on the GTS800 and while expensive looks like a great tool when working in conjunction with the GDL88. With my current set-up the GTN750, Stratus, XRX, Ipad mini and 696 my cabin looks like the space shuttle. Time to de-clutter the gadgets and looking for new options. There's lots of money tied up in the GTN750, why not utilize all the functions, or as many as the checkbook will allow

[Bennett]

Personally I use, and like, the combination of the GTN750/GTN650/GDL88, and WM weather.  For flights in CA I seem to pick up just about all the traffic (I agree with Don that the relative motion traffic presentation on the GTNs is really useful). I much prefer XM weather's presentations of data, especially the various forms of winds aloft, compared to what you get with just ABS-B in/out. Sure, I would like to save the cost of XM, but at this point I think they are sufficiently better at presenting data to the point that I am willing to pay the extra expense. 

[Piloto]

To me WX and TFRs are most important before taxing and I get that with XM\WX on my G560 even in the hangar. Also for traffic you want to be alerted of traffic in the pattern while taxing and I get that with the ATD-300 Traffic-Watch. In most cases with ADS-B/UAT you need to be airborne to get WX and traffic. Unlike XM\WX that you can tell on the ground if it is working such is not the case for ADS-B WX, you need to get airborne to find out if it works. This is kind of cumbersome when troubleshooting a problem with it or assessing it's operational status. You simply cannot preflight it for the IMC trip ahead!.

 

José

[donkaye, MCFI]

To me WX and TFRs are most important before taxing and I get that with XM\WX on my G560 even in the hangar. Also for traffic you want to be alerted of traffic in the pattern while taxing and I get that with the ATD-300 Traffic-Watch. In most cases with ADS-B/UAT you need to be airborne to get WX and traffic. Unlike XM\WX that you can tell on the ground if it is working such is not the case for ADS-B WX, you need to get airborne to find out if it works. This is kind of cumbersome when troubleshooting a problem with it or assessing it's operational status. You simply cannot preflight it for the IMC trip ahead!.

 

José

 

 

Yesterday, we were doing formation flying training in anticipation of the Caravan to Oshkosh.  I was flying wing so had my transponder turned off.  My lead had a GDL 88.  I hadn't pulled the circuit breakers for the GDL 88.  He identified my airplane with its ID on his unit and asked me to turn it off.  ADS-B to ADS-B will become more prevalent and be VERY useful in the pattern even when not in contact with a GBT.

[Piloto]

If you do not have a GTN-750 or a G530W how much would you need to spend to get ADS-B, WX and traffic from a GDL-88. And the GDL is not good for ADS-B above FL 180. You have to put another $5K for a GTX-330ES to fly above FL180. Not to mention if you have an M20M with the non-WAAS G1000. And once you cross the border to Canada, the Bahamas or Mexico all your ADS-B benefits are gone. 

 

José 

[donkaye, MCFI]

If you do not have a GTN-750 or a G530W how much would you need to spend to get ADS-B, WX and traffic from a GDL-88. And the GDL is not good for ADS-B above FL 180. You have to put another $5K for a GTX-330ES to fly above FL180. Not to mention if you have an M20M with the non-WAAS G1000. And once you cross the border to Canada, the Bahamas or Mexico all your ADS-B benefits are gone. 

 

José 

 

 

Well, if one has a Bravo or even a current production Acclaim and no WAAS and lives in the US and wants to fly above FL180, they've got a problem after 2020.  If one wanted to stay with an older non WAAS GPS then the only current option is to get the GDL 88 with WAAS, get or upgrade the GTX 330 to a GTX 330ES, and use an iPad or 796 with a GDL 39 for display.  

[aviatoreb]

I am just about to pull the trigger on an ADSB-out solution.  My KT76 transponder is on last legs and soon I need to do my semiannual ifr cert - so I was hoping the KT74 would come along but looks like who knows when....

 

So I will do some kind of Garmin solution.

 

I already have a GNS430W and also I have an ipad with a GDL393d to give me ADSB-in.

 

What would a gdl88 provide for me as far as in is concerned that I am not already getting on my gdl393d?  If I get a GTX330ES it would satisfy my need for a modern transponder and my need for a compliant ADSB-out but would not give me a panel certified adsb-in solution - but then should I care since I would have good adsb in on my ipad already?

 

Does an GTX330ES trigger the towers to transmit traffic information (am I understanding this process correctly) so that I would see the same more complete traffic picture using a ipad-gdl393d-gtx330ES as I would with a gdl88+the above?

 

And if I were to go gdl88 for the out I would still need to get a transponder - maybe a GTX327?  So that would be two boxes and more expense and weight and electrical load where maybe I can get away with getting just a GTX330ES.

 

Similar topic - I am enchanted with that new box - the Garmin Connext which seems as if a certified in panel version of the gdl393d plus it allows you to push and pull flight plans into my GNS430W.

Your thoughts folks would be appreciated.

[ArtVandelay]

Do you need 1090ES, ie flying at flight levels or outside USA?  If not, you can get KT74 and not worry about compliance with 1090ES standard till 2020.

 

My understanding the GDL-88 transmission should trigger the ground stations (they are suppose to merge 1090/978 and rebroadcast from what I've read), add FS 210 and you have it complete solution.

 

When KT74 becomes certified, you be certified everywhere.

 

Sell your GDL 39

 

I estimate $10-12K for the above.

 

None of this has to be done for 5 years, so you can just replace the transponder (used KT-76A) and wait it out, unless as you noted you want see the complete traffic picture, of course that depends on where you fly, you only need 1 plane in area broadcasting ADSB to cause a rebroadcast.

[Marauder]

Erik - the GDL-88 is a UAT device (transmitting out on the 978 band). Knowing that you fly flight levels, you will be required to have the squitter version of the transponder.

If you purchase the GTX-330ES, you will be "out" compliant for an aircraft that flies above FL180.

With the GTX-330ES, the "out" signal will trigger full traffic coverage. What this means without the GDL-88, you will see all air to air traffic and TIS-B traffic in the hockey puck area. This information will be displayed on your iPad through the GDL-39. Like this:

If you purchase the GDL-88, you will still need the GTX-330ES when operating above FL180 but you will get the benefit of the "in" traffic and weather now displaying on your 430. The 430 however has limitation over the 650/750 "in" data. They are:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/digital/in-the-air/avionics-safety/ads-b/gdl-88/prod63471.html

Hope this helps.

[LANCECASPER]

Well, if one has a Bravo or even a current production Acclaim and no WAAS and lives in the US and wants to fly above FL180, they've got a problem after 2020.  If one wanted to stay with an older non WAAS GPS then the only current option is to get the GDL 88 with WAAS, get or upgrade the GTX 330 to a GTX 330ES, and use an iPad or 796 with a GDL 39 for display.  

Current production Acclaims and Ovations will have WAAS and remote GTX 33 transponder (not GTX33ES) according to Mooney's price list on their website. Hopefully they provide an upgrade option to the ES transponder for above FL180.

mooney price list.pdf

[aviatoreb]

I need a transponder now (within the next few months to pass my next IFR cert).  I want to make this investment inline with the 2020 ADSB requirement.  I want to enjoy ADSB out traffic as soon as possible.

 

Maybe I am getting distracted by the GDL88.  Im going to skip that.  I don't want yet another extra box.

 

I have all but decided that I will go with the KT74.  It is such a clean solution to my transponder needs and it will (soon?) be a ADSB solution.  Better if it were today, but I have decided that Bendix-King is a big enough company to take a chance that they will not fail to certify the ADSB part of their transponder for me.  Plus it is a surprisingly inexpensive transponder given its ADSB capability ($2500) plus I will save on the clean install in that it uses the same tray as my KT76.

 

I am waiting for the shop to check the things and I will do it either in September or November while I am away on some business.

[FlyDave]

I have a GDL-39 (portable ADS-B receiver) and it's connected to a Garmin 696 which displays traffic from the GDL-39. Right now I only get traffic in my local area when another plane in the area has ADS-B out. But when I get it, the 696 shows it with traffic trend and it is quite nice. I have a GTX-330 and will get it upgraded in the next month to ES (I think it's somewhere in the area of $1,000).

Since I got the Bravo with the 696 in the panel, I have continued to be impressed with the 696. It is a GREAT unit and, as far as I'm concerned, is about as much of a MFD as I've seen. Flightplans are crossfilled from the 530W to the 696, ADS-B weather and traffic, geo referenced approach plates, nice sized Garnin panel, BIG screen overall.

This combo (GDL-39/GTX-330ES/696) will take me into 2020 compliance just fine and cost effectively! But don't forget, we're OVER 5 YEARS from the compliance requirement - there will be a lot more options between now and 2020.

If you're thinking about the 796, maybe Don Kaye can chime in here. I don't think he's been as happy with the 796 as he was with the 696.

[ArtVandelay]

It will use the same tray if you want 76 compatibility, if you want to use ADSB in the future, you will need a new tray, there is new wiring harness for the GPS,TIS, etc They can wired it all up, then it will only be a software upgrade to give you the ADSB function.

 

 

Plus it is a surprisingly inexpensive transponder given its ADSB capability ($2500) plus I will save on the clean install in that it uses the same tray as my KT76.

 

 

[aviatoreb]

I have a GDL-39 (portable ADS-B receiver) and it's connected to a Garmin 696 which displays traffic from the GDL-39. Right now I only get traffic in my local area when another plane in the area has ADS-B out. But when I get it, the 696 shows it with traffic trend and it is quite nice. I have a GTX-330 and will get it upgraded in the next month to ES (I think it's somewhere in the area of $1,000).

Since I got the Bravo with the 696 in the panel, I have continued to be impressed with the 696. It is a GREAT unit and, as far as I'm concerned, is about as much of a MFD as I've seen. Flightplans are crossfilled from the 530W to the 696, ADS-B weather and traffic, geo referenced approach plates, nice sized Garnin panel, BIG screen overall.

This combo (GDL-39/GTX-330ES/696) will take me into 2020 compliance just fine and cost effectively! But don't forget, we're OVER 5 YEARS from the compliance requirement - there will be a lot more options between now and 2020.

If you're thinking about the 796, maybe Don Kaye can chime in here. I don't think he's been as happy with the 796 as he was with the 696.

 

I Fly Dave, sounds like you are just ahead of me.  Please give feedback on how your traffic view looks once you upgrade to the GTX330ES.

 

I have a 430W, and a Garmin Aera 510 (for size reasons on he panel) wired for cross fills.  Then I use an iPad with Garmin Pilot for EFB.  And as I said, GDL39-3d.

 

I am leaning more and more to the KT74 whether or not it can be wired for ADSB at this time.  Yeah I know 2020 is 5.5 years away, but I figure if I need to buy a transponder now, and that the KT74 is just a little more than the GTX327 (the cheapest excellent transponder as far as I can tell), then seems to make sense to invest in forward compatibility.

 

It will use the same tray if you want 76 compatibility, if you want to use ADSB in the future, you will need a new tray, there is new wiring harness for the GPS,TIS, etc They can wired it all up, then it will only be a software upgrade to give you the ADSB function.

 

Thanks - yeah - those are the cost details they are checking up for me regarding costs and what work they are allowed to do, what can be done with my current tray and costs to do the work now in a most efficient way for easiest completion of the job once the STC arrives.

[mooney2201]

I have a gts 800 and love it...coupled to gtn 750 and g500..I get up to 12 miles warning.and as low as 2 miles.also coupled to gdl 69a.really went all out on a 1978j..Also have 33es.built in to gts 750.gts 800 really worth the money.just remember you can't see more than two miles

[ArtVandelay]

I have a gts 800 and love it...coupled to gtn 750 and g500..I get up to 12 miles warning.and as low as 2 miles.also coupled to gdl 69a.really went all out on a 1978j..Also have 33es.built in to gts 750.gts 800 really worth the money.just remember you can't see more than two miles

Nice setup without a doubt, you should post a pix of your panel, but all that equipment installed would cost about $50000, that's probably more than what the poster wants to spend.