Just learned my C is junk

[Wildhorsesracing]

It is easier to part out this plane , and start over with another , This plane in todays market can be replaced for 25 to 30 K , it can be parted out for an easy fast 18 K   it will cost 20 K to repair ......   Lets do a little math here ....20 K plus 18 K = 38 K    .......38 K - 25 K = 13 K         It will only cost you 13 K more to do a repair on an old corroded airframe.......  Stop painting a Rosy unrealistic picture for this guy.....  This thread is getting really silly.....

 

Tell that to every street rod and racecar builder - the hands on lessons learned in the process are always far more valuable than the end result. 

 

Like I tell my wife all the time when I buy a project that will cost me more in the end - "30 years ago I spent a fortune getting a college education, and every now and then I need to pay for a refresher course!"

[DaV8or]

It is easier to part out this plane , and start over with another , This plane in todays market can be replaced for 25 to 30 K , it can be parted out for an easy fast 18 K   it will cost 20 K to repair ......  

 

I'm not so sure about fast and easy. Dave here may want to talk to some of the forum members who have actually parted planes out to see how fast, easy and what they actually got in the end. It's deceptive to add up numbers in your head and assume that there dozens of hungry buyers out there willing to pay top dollar instantly for your old, used parts. I suspect that once you get rid of the engine, prop and a few choice avionics, the rest just sits there for months, if not years. I bet many perfectly salvageable parts go off to the scrap yard simply because the owner gets tired of storing the stuff, hoping for a buyer to show up.

 

 

 Stop painting a Rosy unrealistic picture for this guy.....  This thread is getting really silly.....

 

I think you seriously underestimate what a motivated individual, with a willingness to learn and good skills with tools can do. I have no idea how good Dave's skill set is, but I know that if I were faced with this and I had more time than money, I would take this on. Particularly if I liked the plane. An airplane is not a mysterious, exotic organism. It's a well known machine. No more terrifying than a lawn mower, a washing machine, or a computer. You study the problem, learn the particulars, get guidance and have at it. Of course, I come from a long line of engineers, mechanics and DIYers.

 

A good place to start is with a copy of the Mooney maintenance manual and parts catalog, a copy of AC 43.13, talks with MSCs who have done the job, talks with whoever is going to inspect and sign off on this project and finally getting involved with the folks in the local EAA chapter. At least this is how I would approach it. Some of the restorations and fabrications I have seen amateurs do in their garages makes this spar project look like a walk in the park.

[1964-M20E]

Dave  +1

 

While this is a setback it can be a good learning experience if that is what the owner wants to do.

[DaveL]

It is easier to part out this plane , and start over with another , This plane in todays market can be replaced for 25 to 30 K , it can be parted out for an easy fast 18 K   it will cost 20 K to repair ......   Lets do a little math here ....20 K plus 18 K = 38 K    .......38 K - 25 K = 13 K         It will only cost you 13 K more to do a repair on an old corroded airframe.......  Stop painting a Rosy unrealistic picture for this guy.....  This thread is getting really silly.....

According to LASAR I'll get $7000 from the engine and prop and pretty much nothing for the rest of the airplane. They told me that people have _given_ them Mooneys in better condition than mine. This thing has no desirable avionics, has the old style seats, gear, and control surfaces. Others have said I might get $12k for the engine and prop to a homebuilder, but again, that's not enough to make parting it worthwhile to me. Although the idea of having an engine-less aircraft sitting in my backyard does have a certain appeal...

[Steve65E-NC]

I agree that you could probably do just as well technically making up your own sub-spar.  However, the $3,000 from Mooney actually sounds pretty reasonable.  And, you might make that much up on resale just for logging that you have used certified  Mooney parts for the repair.    I know that gear-ups, repaired with Mooney parts are treated with some respect by the market.

 

Also, you might get some free engineering consults from the factory.  Ask in advance about support.

[rbridges]

 Although the idea of having an engine-less aircraft sitting in my backyard does have a certain appeal...

 

prop it up on cinder blocks and put it in your front yard.  oh sorry, that's a Georgia thing.

[Hank]

Those aren't "replica deer," they are archery targets!!

[Marauder]

And the "bird baths" are actually 6 pack holders. Dave must live in a high rent district. There is usually an outhouse in the mix of items he mentioned.

[Alan Fox]

Dave if it is the non ad hub , I sold one last year for 5200 on barnstormers , if the engine has less than 700 hours , I sold one last year on barnstormers for 10 K and it sold in days , Lasar bought from me the nose gear assy , fuel valve , nose gear doors and control rods for 1600.00     There is some real factual info from someone who has done it , If you were on the east coast , I would give you almost 10 K for the plane.........Good luck whatever you decide on......

[DaveL]

Dave if it is the non ad hub , I sold one last year for 5200 on barnstormers , if the engine has less than 700 hours , I sold one last year on barnstormers for 10 K and it sold in days , Lasar bought from me the nose gear assy , fuel valve , nose gear doors and control rods for 1600.00     There is some real factual info from someone who has done it , If you were on the east coast , I would give you almost 10 K for the plane.........Good luck whatever you decide on......

AD hub, engine has ~388 hours but was rebuilt in 2000 - so it's dated out. LASAR said they wouldn't be interested in any of the rest of the airplane and would only give $7k for the engine and prop. Thanks.

[Alan Fox]

Dated out means absolutely nothing on part 91 aircraft , NOTHING, that is a 12 K engine , do you think Lasar would buy the engine to break even????  They will flip it for 15 K and 3 K to install it  , Post some pics of the rest of the plane.....AD prop is probably worth 1500 ,  

[bonal]

As I mentioned earlier on this post we bought ours and it was recommended by an IA to be in great shape with no issues. It had to go into annual right after we brought it home. LASAR found so many things that were no good it cost us over 16 grand in repairs but the end result is we now have a real solid aircraft and believe me it was very upsetting during that time but worth it in the end. I think you should stick with your bird and get her to fly and when you do you will have something to be very proud of. Don't give up!

[jetdriven]

Corrosion-X and ACF-50 are thin oils that will GENERALLY, but not always go into tight areas. ACF "claims" to have more corrosion inhibiting additives (ACF's other claims I discount from experience) and it certainly seems to have solids that settle to the bottom of the bottle over time, I suspect these solids actually do something worthwhile. Corrosion-X does not seem to have solids that settle. Both work well in the short term and are good choices for application on assembled parts. 

 

AV-30 is my absolute favorite product. It goes on about the thickness of motor oil and dries waxy and stops corrosion dead. Regardless of claims on the can, it really does not "wick" very well. But, it can be thinned with MEK or other solvent and will "wick" into tight areas quite well. I did this on my Cessna with great results. I generally use a heat lamp array to keep the AV-30 "application area" hot and the AV-30 thin until it goes where I want it. Pilatus uses it on the PC-12 as the major method of corrosion control. 

 

In this picture, you can clearly see that the thinned AV-30 came out the other side, and it's also on the outside of the fuselage seam here. I used heat lamps. 

 

 

Corrosion-X's "Max-Wax" is much like AV-30. Dries tough and won't attract dirt or dust. Lasts forever. Has an amber tint so you can determine how much, and where it has been applied. (believe it or not, this is very important)

 

Corrosion-X's "Heavy Duty" is a very thick oily film that does not dry. It's perfect for preventing corrosion on components that must move, such as rod ends and things that rub. Interestingly, "Heavy Duty" eventually releases it's oil and drips out of my wing all year long. YUK. But does not wick well otherwise. It just flows downhill. Note: Think of "wicking" as capillary action. Thin oils will climb into very tight areas. You can see this when placing a threaded bolt tip in the fluid. It will climb up. 

 

LPS-III is a thick waxy substance that dries to a waxy film, but does not "wick" at all, and forms a weak surface that eventually goes away under use. It's "old school" I don't like it and no longer use it. 

 

There are many other products too. Aircraft Spruce sells quart of "Par-al-Ketone" a thick, waxy, cosmoline type product that's been around forever. It works very well, can be thinned, sprayed when thinned, and hardens into a relatively dust resistant, moderately tough, waxy surface. It's the cheapest of all the options, and the most cost effective. It's also probably the most versatile. However, it has a distinct, but mild odor and I try to avoid using it inside small aircraft. I'd NEVER use it inside a "cabin class" aircraft, such as a Gulfstream G550, as the odor would be forever there. 

 

 

Lastly, I'd like to talk about Boeshield. It's a thin product that sprays nicely. Can be used nearly anywhere, "wicks" fairly well, dries to a waxy film and is nearly 100% clear (at least initially) and it's nearly impossible to tell if a part has been coated or not. Over the years, it turns slightly milky, and eventually starts to flake or "sluff off" for lack of a better term. If applied liberally, it will protect a flat surface better than Corrosion-X or ACF-50 (as it's waxy) . I suspect, (but don't know) that it may not wick as well, with this stuff, you just can't tell. Heat lamps work with this stuff too. I like Boeshield very much, but I generally don't use it often due to the lack of visible film and questionable lifespan in some EXPOSED applications such as landing gear and wheel wells (its fine inside a wing) . For example, I applied it to my motorcycle engine. Imagine my surprise when it was mostly gone after a year. (when dry, you can scrape it with a fingernail) 

I did some reading about AV30, and read that Ardrox also recommends using AV8 then overcoating it with AV30 or AV100.  What do you think of doing that?  Also, did you brush or spray it on. They seem to favor spraying.   http://www.prontoaerospace.com/media/Chemetall_Product_Guide.pdf

[FlyWalt]

I think the FAA should get involved and look into the previous annuals done and why in the hell did they miss this corrosion and out them on a "do not go to" mechanics list. Troy

I would LOVE to see this sort of list established. Unless there is one that I do not know of.

[FlyWalt]

prop it up on cinder blocks and put it in your front yard.  oh sorry, that's a Georgia thing.

My HOA would have a cow over this. And I would LOVE watching it happen :-)

[Guest]

I would LOVE to see this sort of list established. Unless there is one that I do not know of.

A list of crappy maintainers would be great, as long as we maintainers can also have a list of equally crappy owners who refuse to do proper maintenance and cheap out at every opportunity.

Clarence

[MB65E]

A list of crappy maintainers would be great, as long as we maintainers can also have a list of equally crappy owners who refuse to do proper maintenance and cheap out at every opportunity.

Clarence

Nice!

[Sabremech]

A list of crappy maintainers would be great, as long as we maintainers can also have a list of equally crappy owners who refuse to do proper maintenance and cheap out at every opportunity.

Clarence

I'll 3rd that!

[mike_elliott]

A list of crappy maintainers would be great, as long as we maintainers can also have a list of equally crappy owners who refuse to do proper maintenance and cheap out at every opportunity.

Clarence

Better yet, a list of crappy aircraft. Crappy owners are easy to spot, their victims, not so much. 

[Flyingtexan]

Since I'm about to do a Pre-buy, I'd like to see someone post a how to on removing the rear seat and baggage area so I can remove all of that to take a look. I'd also like to look like I know what I'm doing so the current owner doesn't freak out when I start pulling seats and such. Any schematics or scans from manuals would be very much appreciated.

[MB65E]

On the older a-g models the back seat cushion is usually a bench seat. It's usually foam, the springs are installed to the seat pans/upper wing structure. Once the seat is removed or pulled back, pull a few panels both left and right of the centerline. Then look to the most aft portion "wall" that you can see, that is the rear spar. Look specifically at the seam between the angle and the spar webbing. That will be the Area that is most prone to corrosion. Post a few clear pics on here before your decision. I'm sure others will comment on the general condition of the aircraft. Good luck!!

-Matt

[Roger O]

Since I'm about to do a Pre-buy, I'd like to see someone post a how to on removing the rear seat and baggage area so I can remove all of that to take a look. I'd also like to look like I know what I'm doing so the current owner doesn't freak out when I start pulling seats and such. Any schematics or scans from manuals would be very much appreciated.

Don't want to hijack the thread, but since you are not an A&P or and AI perhaps it would be a good idea to let a pro do the seat pulling!  In addition, have you considered an annual as opposed to a pre-buy?  An annual is much more comprehensive than a pre-buy and will discover a lot more than a cursory inspection.  You are about to spend a lot of hard earned money on a Mooney, just looking to help you avoid problems!

[N601RX]

Be sure the area behind the wheel well that contains the rear spar  and stub spar is looked at.  On my F model this area only has 1 inspection panel and will require a scope to look at completely. I found a rat nest hidden in there that had been missed for many years. Luckily there was no corrosion.  See attached pic.

[chrisk]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but since you are not an A&P or and AI perhaps it would be a good idea to let a pro do the seat pulling!  In addition, have you considered an annual as opposed to a pre-buy?  An annual is much more comprehensive than a pre-buy and will discover a lot more than a cursory inspection.  You are about to spend a lot of hard earned money on a Mooney, just looking to help you avoid problems!

Excellent advice!  And I might add that it would be beneficial to take the plane to an IA with Mooney experience (Dugosh, Maxwell, etc).  

Having said that, there is certainly value in identifying problems before spending money on a pre-purchase / annual.  As a buyer, I would not have a problem asking a seller to pull the back seat for an inspection. And I would make sure the seller knew the exact reason for this request.   As a seller, I would not pull the back seat until the buyer physically showed up to convince me he was serious.  At that point, I would pull the seat on my plane.  I would never let the buyer pull the seat on his own, unless he was an A&P.

[scottfromiowa]

and by physically convincing me he/she is giving me earnest money BEFORE the seat comes out. If you are NOT a "pro" you are not taking out interior to do an inspection pre-buy...as a would be buyer. If you want to take it to a Mooney Pro, on your dime, to confirm it is "good to go"...knock yourself out.