M20J 201 Operating Costs

[legallegend]

Assume that I purchase a well sorted M20J.  What can I assume in per hour operating costs?  I know that there are many variables, but I would like to hear some real work examples.  Maybe look at what you had in total expenses for 2009 or the past 12 months and then divide that by your annual hours.  There was a similar thread on the Beechtalk message board and it was very interesting for folks like me who have not entered the world of airplane ownership just yet.  Thanks.

[M016576]

expensive.

I suppose it's relative to your income, though.

My first annual was a doozey (10k+ at LASAR... a friend of mine warned me about the shops with the sparkling white floors, perhaps I should have listened!)  I'm hoping my next will be less, and I think it will: I bought a M20J that had only flown about 50 hours in the past 5 years, and none in the year preceeding the sale.  I figured that with a very low time motor (only 200 hrs), plus a low time airframe (2000hrs), that I could stretch to make the (relatively) low asking price for the J (vice the E I was looking at).  The downside of the lack of flying + low asking price was a host of issues to be dealt with.  She's now running well, however, and I'm happy with the J....  If I had to do it over again, though, I would NOT go in with the bargain hunting mindset (it's become costly).  I would go for a model that has been flown regularly with recent complete maintenance logs, preferably from one of those expensive white floored shops I just mentioned... (mine has complete records, but the last couple years prior to the sale were annualed by local A&P's at a small field and very little work was noted in the records.. hindsight shows me that just enough was completed by the A&P to call it airworthy.. but the owner wasn't really flying it).

Not to wander too far off topic....

Figure about 2000 for the annual (if it's well groomed... 10K+ for a hangar queen {should have listened about that!})

about 300 bucks for oil/filters (about 100 hrs of flight)

about 1200 for insurance (could be more or less depending on your ratings/hours/model)

about 2000/yr for a hangar

about 5000/yr for fuel (100 hrs of flight or so)

about 1500 for "misc." expenses

and...  finally... about 30,000 for upgrades (or as my wife calls them: "boy gadgets").

 

(edit)->  Sorry forgot to totalize:  Assuming the 2000 annual, about 100 flight hours a year will net you an operating cost of about 120 dollars an hour....

Of course, the first time you have a 5-10k annual, all these numbers are blown out of the water... to me, this isn't something I can justify as "affoardable," but again, it's relative to your income, and how much you value your time....

-Job

[legallegend]

Thanks Job.  Good post.  Is $50/hour a good number for fuel?  I wonder what folks are putting back for mx/avionics/engine reserves. 

[M016576]

Fuel wise, in the J I average about 9 gallons an hour (13 in the climb, 8.5-9 cruise, less in the descent).  Looking at about 4.3+/- dollars a gallon for avgas (although I took a little fuel at KSUN last week.. 6.20 a gallon! ugh... full serve only.. boo).  so it works out to be about 40-50 bucks an hour in fuel alone.

 (that's LOP operations... in ROP, I tend to see about 10.2 GPH in cruise)

-Job

[legallegend]

What about reserves?  Of course insurance will be pilot dependent and hangar will be airport dependent.

[skyking]

I figure about $80 bucks per hour operating costs. But i dont have the hanger payments etc.

I also put $80-$100 bucks per hour in a little bank account to cover the big costs when they come such as the engine re-builds etc.

[scottfromiowa]

I think Job and Jim are right on.  I did the "hanger queen" investment too and would NOT go this route again...was in my initial purchase price area and had low time so...then the fun starts replacing EVERYTHING firewall forward...thankfully the "breaks" and need to do's were spread out so I could fund them....and once you do get the plane mechanically sound...UPgrade siren begins to call...buy me....buy me...BUY ME!!!  I don't figure the REAL expense because I just don't want to know.  It's a labor of love and the convenience and ease of getting somewhere that is 6.5 hours by four wheels...being 2.0 on three retractable ones.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Depends on what you do with your airplane.  In many instances, mine is used for work-related use so it's a marginal cost over driving.  The teaching I do on weekends in other cities (Waco, Dallas, etc.) more than covers the operating cost of operating the aircraft.

I commute to work many Monday mornings and commute from work manyFriday afternoons in my Mooney using less gallons than my truck.  the fuel i use in the airplane costs $1.00/gallon more, so it's break even in fuel expense. (145nm flying vs 200 statute miles driving).

My annual ran about $4000 last year on ~250 hobbs hours of flying.  During the year up to the annual I probably spent $2000 on MX and budgeted out $3000 for reserves.

FYI the last week consisted of Dallas-->Waco-->Kerrville-->Waco-->Commerce-->Longview-->Commerce.  47 gallons total fuel used which came out to $185 for more or less 680nm of flying, not to mention at low altitude on each leg to avoid perpetual headwinds whichever direction I traveled.

[legallegend]

My uses will be: 1) IFR trainer, 2) weekend getaway vehicle for family, 3)  $100 burgers, and 4) general turning $$$ into HP.  I have access to a 172 for $129 and a Turbo Arrow for $189.  I am looking into other rental options as well.  Problem with the Arrow is that insurance currently requires 50 hours retract time to solo, which I do not have.  I really want the Mooney for speed but I am trying to figure out if I can justify it purely on a dollars basis compared to what I have access to. 

[carusoam]

Cost comparison.....

Downside: Usually much cheaper to rent or belong to a club.

Upside: Having your own plane requires no scheduling, you can have it for the entire holiday weekend, and no need to return early so someone else can use the plane.

Let me know if you find some kind of financial justification.  I think it is right up there with a beach house.

-a-

[legallegend]

Thanks Jim.  Good comments.  How many hours did you fly last year?  Did the $160 include reserves or just out of pocket costs?

[Cruiser]

renting a complex airplane for trips is next to impossible. Rentals are good for training and local flying. I would be suprised if the FBO would let you take a rental for the weekend cross country. They just loose too much income or they will want a minimum number of hours rental even if you do not fly that many hours.

[legallegend]

Cruiser - I am renting from a private instructor.  No daily minimums.  I can take on cross countries at will.  I would be happy to continue to rent the 172 for another year to get my IFR and then plan on buying end of 2011 early 2012.  I just want more speed for travel.  The owner is renewing the insurance and we are trying to see if the 50 hour requirement on the Arrow can be lowered to something more reasonable.

[laytonl]

My partner and I fly our 1978 M20J a combined 185 hours per year.  Our costs are:

Hanger $3,000 yr

Ins $2,400

Taxes $300

Annual $2,000 (owner assisted)

Misc maintenance $2,000 (our plane is a former hanger queen and we are still working thru issues.  Previous years mx has been higher.

Total Fixed: $9,700

Fuel 185 hrs @ 12 gals/hr * $4.25 gal = $9,435

Total cost $19,135

Cost/hr = $103

[laytonl]

My partner and I fly our 1978 M20J a combined 185 hours per year.  Our costs are:

Hanger $3,000 yr

Ins $2,400

Taxes $300

Annual $2,000 (owner assisted)

Misc maintenance $2,000 (our plane is a former hanger queen and we are still working thru issues.  Previous years mx has been higher.

Total Fixed: $9,700

Fuel 185 hrs @ 12 gals/hr * $4.25 gal = $9,435

Total cost $19,135

Cost/hr = $103

[Flyingmora]

I have owned two newer Pipers and have to agree with Jim B. that you have to be financially prepared for whatever comes your way. I decided to sell the last (Saratoga II TC) because I could not justify so many expenses.  Between an annual, AC repair and a monthly payment, I was out 15K in one month, which is what made me decide to part with this plane. Don't get me wrong, its great to plan out your expenses, but in my experience I always had surprises. 

Now, four years later, I am in the market for a 99 Eagle or Ovation and will be partnering with a friend. I am sure that a Mooney is the aircraft for our current mission and also affordable one. 

If a partnership is an option for you, visit: www.theapa.com

Good Luck!

Ricardo

[legallegend]

Thanks Ricardo.  I am evaluating all of my options including stepping back to a 20F.  Does anyone want to chime in on what I might see differently in operating costs.  Based on my rough projects (something catastrophic aside), I can operate the 20F within a a few dollars per hour of the 172 (this includes engine, maintenance and avionics reserves) and much less than the rental Turbo Arrow.  Oh what to do.

[MattS]

I dont think you will see much difference in the operating costs of an F or a J.  The purchase price will be higher and the resulting insurance premium will be the same.

I spent a lot more on my 1967 F then I do on my 1984 J, but that had to do with the specific aircraft I had and nothing to do with it being an F model.

[KSMooniac]

I can't disagree with anything posted above.  F and J should have identical operating costs except for a minor variance in insurance due to hull value, but that is about it.  Cylinders are the same for each (more expensive than other -360s), an F might have a prop with a recurring AD, but otherwise they're very, very similar.  If your purchase budget supports it, you won't be sorry getting a J over an F.  (I was initially looking for a modified E or F but talked myself into a J at a higher price, and am *so* glad I did).

I especially agree with Jim's philosophy on reserves...I don't put aside $xx per hour for future use, but I know it is out there.  I have a single savings account that serves as my emergency fund for the plane, truck, house, etc. or if I get laid off.  I don't care to track my expenses so closely for a personal-use time machine...others might though.  I pay for fuel and oil as-used, and anything else along the way.  When it comes time for overhaul, I'll either write a check or finance but at this point I don't worry about it.  I wrote a check for a new paint job last year, as well as $2500 in un-planned cylinder work.  If you're so strapped that an un-planned need for an engine overhaul next month would cause you to have to sell the plane or quit flying, then ownership is not for you, unfortunately.  If you could get a home equity loan or similar to handle and un-planned overhaul, and then pay it off aggressively then perhaps that would be good enough...only you can decide, though.

If none of the above scares you, then hurry up and buy something!  The market is still down, so it is a great time to buy.  My fixed costs for comparison:

Insurance $1400 (750 TT, instrument, ~500 Mooney, hangared, $115k hull)

Hangar $1800

Maintenance $3000 (average estimate, not including upgrades

GPS Databases, XM weather, charts ($1375)

Fuel, $5.00 average * 10 GPH average * 150 hours/yr = $7500

150 hours a year = $100.50 /hr operating costs, not including loan payment

Also not included...significant maintenance events, some planned some not:

Fuel tank rehab at Willmar $8000

Paint Job $10500

Speed Mods $2500

GTX-330ES upgrade after KT-76 died $4000

 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: LFOD

I dont think you will see much difference in the operating costs of an F or a J. 

[dlthig]

Go to planequest.com. There are operating costs on the left side. I made an initial spread sheet to compare some types. PM me or tell me how to post.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: KLRDMD

If you get an F with manual gear and hydraulic flaps, you may see a difference.

[Mooney65E]

Quote: dlthig

Go to planequest.com. There are operating costs on the left side. I made an initial spread sheet to compare some types. PM me or tell me how to post.

I looked at planequest.com and found some of the numbers to be unrealistic. I threw together a spreadsheet of my previous years expenses and wanted to share. Included in my yearly maint. cost is eddy current test of Hartzell prop ($250), electric gear and the addition of an EDM 830 diplay head ($1090.00). The hanger fee based on $100/mo payment to airport property management after already purchasing a hanger worth nearly as much as my plane.

Note: I fell 39hrs short of flying my 100hrs / year goal and included projection for comparison.

2009 Operating Costs for 65 M20E

Fuel (GPH):

8.5

8.5

Fuel Costs/Gallon:

 $        4.20

 $              4.20

Fuel Costs/Hour:

 $      35.70

 $            35.70

Oil Costs per Hour:

 $        1.80

 $              1.80

Hours Flown/Year

61

100

Annual and Maintenance Cost/Year

 $  2,690.00

 $        2,690.00

Maintenance Cost/Hour:

 $      44.10

 $            26.90

Hourly Engine Reserve:

 $      11.00

 $            11.00

Prop T/R Reserve:

 $        3.75

 $              3.75

Total Variable Costs/Hour:

 $      96.35

 $            79.15

Average Speed (KNOTS):

146

146

Cost/NM:

 $        0.66

 $              0.54

Annual Insurance:

 $    950.00

 $          950.00

Annual Hangar/Tiedown:

 $  1,200.00

 $        1,200.00

Training:

 $    100.00

 $          100.00

Total Fixed Costs:

 $  2,250.00

 $        2,250.00

Fixed Cost/Hour:

 $      36.89

 $            22.50

Total Variable & Fixed Costs/Year:

 $  8,127.25

 $      10,165.00

Total Costs/Hour:

 $    133.23

 $          101.65

Total Cost/NM:

 $        2.18

 $              1.02

[fantom]

If you can get one, the cost for a hanger in Ft. Lauderdale is about $550 a month! :-(

[Hank]

Thank you for creating and posting your spreadsheet. I've been trying to do that for the last three years, but haven't gotten past accumulating huge stacks of receipts . . . Partly from lack of motivation, partly because I don't really want to know exactly how much I've been spending. I do look forward to my insurance renewal this year, to see just how much my new Instrument Rating will reduce it. Will insuring just me for the plane ever drop to just the cost of insuring my wife and I together on three cars???

     One thing I've never understood is why people include hangars, insurance and annuals when they calculate "operating cost." Yes, you have to pay them, but they are fixed costs of ownership. If you flew zero hours, these costs must be paid, and then your "operating cost" change from zero [you didn't fly, so you spent nothing going anywhere] to infinite. Your spreadsheet shows an increase of over 50% i n operating costs because you didn't fly as much as you thought you would, but the increase is simply dividing your fixed [non-operating] costs by fewer hours. Your actual operational expenses are lower if your operating time drops.

     To me, "operating costs" are what I pay to operate my plane--fuel, oil, tires, overnight fees when away from home, repairs when things break, etc. My hangar or tie down must be paid regardless of whether I fly the plane zero hours or ten hours a day every day. Does the fact that I flew less in May [~2 hours] than in April [~15 hours] mean that my hourly costs in May were higher? No, they were the same, and I actually spent less dollars in May, which proves the operating cost didn't increase.

     You are to be commended, though, for posting your actual expenses, as it is informative to other pilots for comparison, and to prospective owners to realize the full cost of ownership. I just disagree with the classification of every dollar spent on the airplane going into operational expense.