Mooney gear up in NC

[Marauder]

Austin - If you don't mind me asking, what was your hull coverage? The reason I am asking, is that is what the adjuster will use as the basis to determine whether it makes sense to repair or declare it a total.

The repair cost can add up quickly when you're dealing with prop, engine and other hardware that needs to be dealt with.

[N601RX]

Usually even if they total it, they are happy to work out a deal where they subtract some amount of money from the settlement and the owner gets to keep it and fix on his own.  Then they don't have to worry with moving or selling it.

[TonyPynes]

To update this thread. I hesitated writing this..had to get past some of the edge of the disappointment. Not pointing blame on anyone but me. But I hit a barrier I felt others might want to know about...so FYI Insurance did choose to total the aircraft. I could have bought it back but was unsure if I would have insurance afterwards. Plus I would be investing a few thousand more to do the repairs right. As it turned out Starr did send me a nonrenewal notice and Falcon tried very hard but was unable to find anyone else to give me nonowned or hull coverage. I tried Avemco and they also declined. I was also contacted by the FAA and will need a 709 checkride in a complex plane to keep my certificate. Since I do not have insurance there is a high probability that I will have to turn in my certificate next week. Yep it stinks. I will continue to check with other agents but from what I understand the pool of aviation underwriters is not that great. Low hour pilot...230.. Two claims...prop strike and gear up...looks like the magic combination.

[scottfromiowa]

Tony,

This is crazy. Find a good instructor and get checked out in an Arrow. Fly your FAA ride in it. Build some time renting. Time heals all wounds. Good grief, come to Cedar Rapids and fly with Dave Pearson. I had to do ONE landing on my post gear up ride. Had checklist in hand. It was a non-event. Unless you feel you are not safe (which I don't think you are based on these two events) DO NOT forfeit your cert over this....PLEASE

[Marauder]

Hi Austin -- sooo sorry to hear about these developments. There are a number of CFIs here who can advise you on the best course to keep your certificate. That should be your primary focus. I agree with Scott that walking away from ownership and renting may be the best course at this time. You will want to make sure that you can obtain renter's insurance too. I'm a bit perplexed by the check ride. Were the two events close together time wise? It is unusual to see the FAA request a check ride for an incident like this, even if it is caused by non mechanical means.

[jetdriven]

To update this thread. I hesitated writing this..had to get past some of the edge of the disappointment. Not pointing blame on anyone but me. But I hit a barrier I felt others might want to know about...so FYI Insurance did choose to total the aircraft. I could have bought it back but was unsure if I would have insurance afterwards. Plus I would be investing a few thousand more to do the repairs right. As it turned out Starr did send me a nonrenewal notice and Falcon tried very hard but was unable to find anyone else to give me nonowned or hull coverage. I tried Avemco and they also declined. I was also contacted by the FAA and will need a 709 checkride in a complex plane to keep my certificate. Since I do not have insurance there is a high probability that I will have to turn in my certificate next week. Yep it stinks. I will continue to check with other agents but from what I understand the pool of aviation underwriters is not that great. Low hour pilot...230.. Two claims...prop strike and gear up...looks like the magic combination.

I'm with Scott on this, go rent a Arrow or 172RG and take the 709 ride, preferrably with a different FSDO.  Sometimes it takes a lawyer to get this, but its money well spent. Don't give up.

[FlyDave]

To update this thread. I hesitated writing this..had to get past some of the edge of the disappointment. Not pointing blame on anyone but me. But I hit a barrier I felt others might want to know about...so FYI Insurance did choose to total the aircraft. I could have bought it back but was unsure if I would have insurance afterwards. Plus I would be investing a few thousand more to do the repairs right. As it turned out Starr did send me a nonrenewal notice and Falcon tried very hard but was unable to find anyone else to give me nonowned or hull coverage. I tried Avemco and they also declined. I was also contacted by the FAA and will need a 709 checkride in a complex plane to keep my certificate. Since I do not have insurance there is a high probability that I will have to turn in my certificate next week. Yep it stinks. I will continue to check with other agents but from what I understand the pool of aviation underwriters is not that great. Low hour pilot...230.. Two claims...prop strike and gear up...looks like the magic combination.

Tony,

 

I'm with Scott, Marauder and Jet (and probably everyone else here on Mooneyspace). Go the renting route now to keep your ticket. You'll be much happier in the end! If you don't then I think you'll regret it in very short order.

 

Best of Luck!!

 

Dave

[TonyPynes]

So I think I have finally found renters insurance...after checking with about 6 companies. Sent the check and app in and was verbally told they will cover me. I am about 95% certain it is a done deal....Scheduled time in the Piper and the checkride ...all next week. Once I am 100% certain of the coverage I will share who helped me with it. Also will report Friday on results of 709.

thanks all....oh, the journey....

[Marauder]

So I think I have finally found renters insurance...after checking with about 6 companies. Sent the check and app in and was verbally told they will cover me. I am about 95% certain it is a done deal....Scheduled time in the Piper and the checkride ...all next week. Once I am 100% certain of the coverage I will share who helped me with it. Also will report Friday on results of 709. thanks all....oh, the journey....

Good to see you back in the saddle! Go get'em Tiger!

[carusoam]

Tony,

Thanks for sharing your experience. The successful stories about how to navigate the system will help out a few people that find themselves in a similar situation.

Good luck going forwards,

Best regards,

-a-

[RocketAviator]

In another thread, I mentioned an idea to use a cheap video camera with the end of the fiber optic cable just peaking out the belly so as to observe the gear up or down. These cameras can be bought for as little as $70 and really work well. I know it's another thing to look at but as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

I would like to know more about these camera you mention?  Brand, Model, Price where to purchase?  Do you have any information on installation requirements?

[bumper]

I would like to know more about these camera you mention?  Brand, Model, Price where to purchase?  Do you have any information on installation requirements?

 

Jetdriven posted earlier: "That gear down indicator in the floor is bolted to the retraction truss.  In the 1977 POH, it says to extend gear, and check gear down "Gear down light on - marks aligned in visual indicator in floor."

 

On the electric gear ships, if that floor indicator is green and aligned properly, all three are down and locked (assuming there is no physical breakage in the mechanical linkage to a wheel, and that would be unlikely).

 

Like others, I do two out loud GUMP checks, one after putting the gear down and hearing the "thunk" of the gear going down and another on final. On each of the GUMP checks I look at the floor indicator. Since Mooney was kind enough to give us a relatively simple, robust, and reliable gear system, and one with a darn near 100% mechanical indicator, if you hear the thunk and see the mechanical indicator lined up, of what use would a video cam picture be?

[TonyPynes]

Northwest Insurance Group came through for me for the renters insurance. Underwriter was Chartis....which is strange since another agency said they told them no. After the 709 ride it will be time to pursue owned coverage again. I have a list I have gleamed from several sources...I will post in a separate thread appropriately titled in the coming weeks so the information is available.

[Marauder]

I would like to know more about these camera you mention? Brand, Model, Price where to purchase? Do you have any information on installation requirements? Jetdriven posted earlier: "That gear down indicator in the floor is bolted to the retraction truss. In the 1977 POH, it says to extend gear, and check gear down "Gear down light on - marks aligned in visual indicator in floor." On the electric gear ships, if that floor indicator is green and aligned properly, all three are down and locked (assuming there is no physical breakage in the mechanical linkage to a wheel, and that would be unlikely). Like others, I do two out loud GUMP checks, one after putting the gear down and hearing the "thunk" of the gear going down and another on final. On each of the GUMP checks I look at the floor indicator. Since Mooney was kind enough to give us a relatively simple, robust, and reliable gear system, and one with a darn near 100% mechanical indicator, if you hear the thunk and see the mechanical indicator lined up, of what use would a video cam picture be?

A few years back my mechanical floor indicator did break and I was left without that indicator. The mechanical indicator is a piece of Lexan that slides in a tract and is moved by I believe the nose wheel mechanism. In my case it did break and left me with only the electrical indicator. With all the options available today for remote mounted cameras (like the one found on my pick-up for backing up), it certainly is something that could be done and would offer a real visual of the gear situation. If they allowed it to be ported over to my Aspen MFD, I would buy one.

[201er]

Some Bonanza guy had a mirror installed on his wing so that he could visually make sure his nosewheel was down after 2 gear up landings. Didn't stop him from making a 3rd. Just saying.

[Marauder]

Some Bonanza guy had a mirror installed on his wing so that he could visually make sure his nosewheel was down after 2 gear up landings. Didn't stop him from making a 3rd. Just saying.

Am I going to see this mirror 1st hand or is it another Internet folklore?

[midlifeflyer]

Am I going to see this mirror 1st hand or is it another Internet folklore?

 

Am I going to see this mirror 1st hand or is it another Internet folklore?

 

I've seen them. Problem is, IMO, gear-up landings aren't the result of not having a mirror or a camera or some other especially cool means of checking whether the gear is down. It's (1) not putting it down in a consistent manner and (2) not checking all the things you do have to confirm it is down.

 

The mirror and the camera are just two more things to ignore. 

[OR75]

maybe ...

unless mechanical problem related

not paying enough attention to the speed ?

beyond the checklist and the gear warning alarm , a good reason for me to get the gear down is to slow down the beast

this makes me think that a good exercise to do with an instructor would be to simulate an approach for landing with a gear up and then go around. i am thinking that the power setting, speed or aircraft attitude would feel very different if not weird.

[gregwatts]

I've seen them. Problem is, IMO, gear-up landings aren't the result of not having a mirror or a camera or some other especially cool means of checking whether the gear is down. It's (1) not putting it down in a consistent manner and (2) not checking all the things you do have to confirm it is down.

 

The mirror and the camera are just two more things to ignore. 

 

 

I agree with this statement........

[midlifeflyer]

 i am thinking that the power setting, speed or aircraft attitude would feel very different if not weird.

 

It would. My favorite retract training story: On the last flight before the sign-off, while the pilot was performing steep turns in the practice area, I pulled the gear breaker. When he got to the point in the visual approach to the airport where he would normally put the gear down, he moved the lever to the down position. Not two seconds later, he looked at me and said, "what did you do? The gear's not coming down."

 

We had worked on a gear-down process that included being aware of and anticipating the feel and sounds that change when the gear is coming down and drag being added to the airplane. He reacted perfectly and on cue because, as you put it, it felt very different that what he expected and in fact weird.

[Cruiser]

In my pre-landing check the very last thing I do coming over the fence is check the gear visual indicator in the floor. 

 

No matter what happens to distract or interrupt the routine, I have one final chance to catch it.

[thinwing]

My experience is that after any gearup/gear collapse the feds order a 709 checkride...relax and enjoy it ..it will be the only checkride you will ever take that is absolutely free of cost to you and paid for by uncle sam.You also have a reasonable time to aquire insurance/rental aircraft etc.Generally the inspector involved is someone everybody knows so when you call for the appointment /checkride..note the examiners name.While on the checkride they like to see it done in a complex/retractable if the issue at hand is a gearup.This is negotiable but just make sure you follow the checklist to the letter..make sure you announce the "football" if done in another electric retract mooney.Generally the checkride is very short...maybe once arround the pattern..be very sure you communicate your "gear staus check" before final approach .Sorry about your Mooney it is called experience...

[PilotDerek]

Tony,

How did it go?

[Marauder]

Tony, How did it go?

Thanks for reviving this thread. We haven't heard from him in a bit. Hope all is well and he has his instrument rating completed as well.

[rbridges]

Some Bonanza guy had a mirror installed on his wing so that he could visually make sure his nosewheel was down after 2 gear up landings. Didn't stop him from making a 3rd. Just saying.

 

sounds like someone needs to fly fixed gear.