Should I replace my switches?

[Max Clark]

Reading more and more threads about people replacing their switches

Is this a parts failure and replacement availability issue, preference, usability, something else?

If you went this route, what switches (and why) did you go with?

[Pinecone]

The caps break.  They are available.  So more of a preference.

I replaced all the rocker switches with toggle switches with my panel upgrade.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I have all toggle switches in my older Mooney,  they are easy to find and cheap.  That’s a good combination.  

[PT20J]

Keep in mind that most of the rocker switches are circuit breaker switches. You can easily find toggle circuit breaker switches. If you replace the originals with non-CB rocker switches, you will have to add circuit breakers somewhere.

[dkkim73]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

The caps break.  They are available.  So more of a preference.

I replaced all the rocker switches with toggle switches with my panel upgrade.

Pinecone be showing off his sweet panel again...

[Schllc]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

The caps break.  They are available.  So more of a preference.

I replaced all the rocker switches with toggle switches with my panel upgrade.

I really like this as well. 
I know it doesn’t look as new and slick, but the tactile feel, the way you absolutely know you actuated the switch.  (Hope that makes sense). 
Some of the new rocker style are easier to accidentally brush on or off.  
I do not dislike the new style enough to replace a nice panel, but if I was building a panel I would prefer toggle wherever practical.  

[ArtVandelay]

I prefer modern mini rocker switches, by removing the old tach/MP gauges I had plenty of room for additional circuit breakers. I wanted to get rid of the switches and annunciation box, hanging compass. Also wanted the G3X as high as possible, I shifted it right, in split screen mode the HSI is centered on the yoke. I wanted all controls I commonly use in flight within easy access to my right hand, only the light switches are on the left side.

[hubcap]

When I upgraded Myrtle’s panel we replaced all the rocker switches with circuit breaker toggle switches. The new toggle switches have a solid ON/OFF and are “off the shelf”.

We also replaced all the circuit breakers as we have found out that some 40 year old circuit breakers begin tripping on a normal load.

[Pinecone]

I put my lighting switches to the right.  As those are ones I access in flight. 

Two rows of 4 positions (one empty).  Top row are forward lights.  Recog, pulser, taxi, and landing (from left to right).   Landing is far right as that is the one I most likely will be fumbling for.

Second row are all around lights.  Beacon (always on), blank, nav, and strobes.  Strobes are far right as again may need to turn them off when punching into IMC.

Switches to the right are the ones used mostly in starting and shutdown.

I also replaced mags and starter with toggles.

[Grant_Waite]

I’ve seen one plane on controller before, it was an older J  that had the same switches as the last mooneys made. They looked pretty good and are another option, but are quite big. Not sure who makes them. For those who have done new panels, is back lighting the labels for the switches a thing? Like how bonanzas and a lot of bigger planes use electroluminescent lighting behind the panel, that’s controlled with a rheostat. I just think it looks cooler than having panel lighting under the glare shield or sticking out form the panel itself 

[Lax291]

17 hours ago, Grant_Waite said:

I’ve seen one plane on controller before, it was an older J  that had the same switches as the last mooneys made. They looked pretty good and are another option, but are quite big. Not sure who makes them. For those who have done new panels, is back lighting the labels for the switches a thing? Like how bonanzas and a lot of bigger planes use electroluminescent lighting behind the panel, that’s controlled with a rheostat. I just think it looks cooler than having panel lighting under the glare shield or sticking out form the panel itself 

Wondering if these Carling V-Series Contura switches are what your recollecting? https://www.carlingtech.com/rocker-switches-v-series

 

[Will.iam]

On 9/21/2024 at 1:38 AM, ArtVandelay said:

I prefer modern mini rocker switches, by removing the old tach/MP gauges I had plenty of room for additional circuit breakers. I wanted to get rid of the switches and annunciation box, hanging compass. Also wanted the G3X as high as possible, I shifted it right, in split screen mode the HSI is centered on the yoke. I wanted all controls I commonly use in flight within easy access to my right hand, only the light switches are on the left side.

I want to get my compass off my vertical bar to improve my view out the windshield also. Did you use your original compass or have to buy a compass designed specifically for the panel? If the original, what panel mount did you get to install it?

[ArtVandelay]

I want to get my compass off my vertical bar to improve my view out the windshield also. Did you use your original compass or have to buy a compass designed specifically for the panel? If the original, what panel mount did you get to install it?

I bought the panel specific model.

[Max Clark]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

I bought the panel specific model.

I just noticed you have the Garmin PFD, Garmin G5 standby, and the AV-20!

Panel mounted compass is a great idea - going to add that to my wish list.

[Grant_Waite]

7 hours ago, Lax291 said:

Wondering if these Carling V-Series Contura switches are what your recollecting? https://www.carlingtech.com/rocker-switches-v-series

 

Yes, they looked like those exactly! 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Max Clark said:

I just noticed you have the Garmin PFD, Garmin G5 standby, and the AV-20!

Panel mounted compass is a great idea - going to add that to my wish list.

All whiskey (kerosene) compasses eventually leak.

The only question is: where do you want the drip?  on the glareshield from the compass on the post? or on an avionics box behind the panel?

[EricJ]

52 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

All whiskey (kerosene) compasses eventually leak.

The only question is: where do you want the drip?  on the glareshield from the compass on the post? or on an avionics box behind the panel?

Another concern with an in-panel compass installation is fields created by whatever electronic components are near the compass in the panel.   Those can change depending on what the nearby device is doing and how much current it is drawing, which can change with different loads due to use and configuration.

I replaced my whiskey compass with a full-faced dry compass partly because the flimsy plastic mount for the whisky compass kept breaking, but it's been nice to not have to worry about leaks, too.

 

[ArtVandelay]

All whiskey (kerosene) compasses eventually leak.
The only question is: where do you want the drip?  on the glareshield from the compass on the post? or on an avionics box behind the panel?

Whiskey compass leaks are very rare, especially if protected from damage unlike the center post version, in any case most modern avionics are not vented at the top, in my case I know the 507 controller box is not.

[ArtVandelay]

Another concern with an in-panel compass installation is fields created by whatever electronic components are near the compass in the panel.   Those can change depending on what the nearby device is doing and how much current it is drawing, which can change with different loads due to use and configuration.
I replaced my whiskey compass with a full-faced dry compass partly because the flimsy plastic mount for the whisky compass kept breaking, but it's been nice to not have to worry about leaks, too.
 

1. Modern avionics have a current low draw.
2. They’re shielded, surrounded by a metal box.
3. In my case the problem was the steel supports (including where the compass hangs), so I put the compass away from it. I have an app that measures magnetic fields and used it to survey the instrument panel area.
4. Assuming it uses ethyl alcohol, it doesn’t conduct electricity anyway, so leaks should be a non issue.

[MikeOH]

11 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

1. Modern avionics have a current low draw.
2. They’re shielded, surrounded by a metal box.
3. In my case the problem was the steel supports (including where the compass hangs), so I put the compass away from it. I have an app that measures magnetic fields and used it to survey the instrument panel area.

While I'm glad you're not having any issues, @EricJ's warning is appropriate.

While it's certainly true that modern avionics draw less current, even a few amps in a wire will produce a local (order of an inch) magnetic field strength on the SAME order of magnitude as the Earth's (approximately 50 microTesla); less than that will still affect a compass.  Further, the aluminum metal 'box' provides virtually no shielding of magnetic fields; just electric.  Certainly want to stay well away from any ferrous metal that can be magnetized but it's the varying electrical current in nearby equipment that is the concern; e.g. when the transmitter is keyed.  Just an important factor to consider for a panel mount compass vs. the typical center post location.

[PeterRus]

3 hours ago, Max Clark said:

Panel mounted compass is a great idea - going to add that to my wish list.

I am not sure it's a good idea -- too much interference. 

[PeterRus]

31 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

1. Modern avionics have a current low draw.
2. They’re shielded, surrounded by a metal box.

I would be more concerned about engine interference, not avionics...

[ArtVandelay]

I would be more concerned about engine interference, not avionics...

More specifically the ignition system, but that’s going to affect the compass anywhere, unless you put it in back away from everything, which is where the magnetometer is located.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

1. Modern avionics have a current low draw.
2. They’re shielded, surrounded by a metal box.
3. In my case the problem was the steel supports (including where the compass hangs), so I put the compass away from it. I have an app that measures magnetic fields and used it to survey the instrument panel area.
4. Assuming it uses ethyl alcohol, it doesn’t conduct electricity anyway, so leaks should be a non issue.

One of the main problems (but certainly not the only one) that can affect the compass are the inductive components in the DC power supplies.   DC magnetic fields (or net DC fields) are not effectively shielded by metal boxes or other shields (they're intended for rf shielding).   It doesn't take a ton of current for a few unfortunately located devices to generate sufficient field to affect a nearby compass.   The good news is that moderate spacing helps mitigate this when it's a problem, so the usual practice of putting the compass a little bit higher than the panel electronics is generally sufficient.

The center steel support in a J model used to mount the compass is stainless steel, so non-magnetic and should not affect the compass.   Some older Mooneys had a plain steel support there that might require occasional degaussing.   The cage components around the rest of the cabin and panel are steel, and susceptible to magnetization.   

In-panel compasses aren't that unusual and can certainly be made to work, it's just not always a slam-dunk and the magnetic environment can change and be more dependent on nearby surrounding device behavior than elsewhere sometimes.

 

[PT20J]

So the answer is that opinions about switches and compasses vary and there will often be some confirmation bias in the answers. But I think it is good to know that there are options. I believe all wet compasses are filled with a refined kerosene (at least that's what it stinks like); if ethyl alcohol were used, pilots would drink it . Any compass installation should be swung with the engine running and the radios on and if you can compensate it, you're good. If you are worried about it, turn some avionics on and off when on the cardinal headings and see if there is a difference.

The Beavers I flew for two 135 float operators had compasses that were wildly off because the Beaver has a metal tube structure (everyone calls it a bird cage, which I guess makes the pilots birdmen) around the cockpit and it is difficult to deguass (at least according to the mechanics that didn't want to mess with it). It never bothered us -- we just just used a combination of GPS track and pilotage. Given my iPad for backup, I cannot imagine a situation where I would really need a compass anyway. It seems kind of like an appendix. McDonnel Douglas thought so little of it that in the DC-9/MD-80 they stuck it in the overhead behind the copilot viewable through fold-down mirrors on the glareshield.