What's the gameplan when Garmin no longer supports the G1000

[exM20K]

24 minutes ago, Schllc said:

If it was possible but 100k more to put in the legacy g1000 into that airplane instead of the new stuff, I would do it in a heartbeat. 
the g1000 is not clunky, or awkward, or outdated at all as far as I’m concerned. 

The R/STOL 340 I did a prebuy on December a year ago has a modern-ish panel: G500, EIS MVP monitors, GTN 750’S and a recent STEC.  IMHO, it fell well short of the G1000/GFC700 in the acclaim with respect to integration and logical workflow.  Maybe I would get comfortable with it over time. 
 

Obsolescence of the G1000 way far down on the list of things that keep me up at night. 
-dan

[Pinecone]

On 2/24/2024 at 4:43 PM, Schllc said:

Furthermore, the path to create an upgrade path to the NXI will happen.  The reason is simple, there are enough planes to make it profitable. 
There is also the potential for a field approval to remove the g1000 completely for regular avionics. 

The problem is, Mooney holds the TC, that includes the G1000.  So MOONEY needs to create the upgrade path to NXi.  Yes, working with Garmin.  But Garmin cannot do it without Mooney involvement.  And Mooney doesn't have the money to do this.

Maybe, they would be amenable to getting all the G1000 Mooney owners to put up a large deposit to fund the upgrade development. 

Field approvals are possible for putting in new systems, but the G1000 is a very integrated to the airframe system, so this path is going to make your Aerostar avionics upgrade look like a cheap project.

[Schllc]

23 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

The problem is, Mooney holds the TC, that includes the G1000.  So MOONEY needs to create the upgrade path to NXi.  Yes, working with Garmin.  But Garmin cannot do it without Mooney involvement.  And Mooney doesn't have the money to do this.

Maybe, they would be amenable to getting all the G1000 Mooney owners to put up a large deposit to fund the upgrade development. 

Field approvals are possible for putting in new systems, but the G1000 is a very integrated to the airframe system, so this path is going to make your Aerostar avionics upgrade look like a cheap project.

Yes, I know mooney holds the cards to this upgrade at the moment, and I really don't understand why they wouldn't at least try to crowd fund it with owners willing to bite the bullet, but there is much I don't know about the inner workings of a struggling company.  Garmin did say that if they forfeit the TC they can do the work, which is really a double edge sword.  None of us want to see them go out of business.  

All that being said, I am of the belief that it will happen sooner than later, simply because there is money to be made.  Who knows.....

[Pinecone]

I heard that a number of owners got together and offered to fund the work just to get their planes done.  Mooney was not interested.

[LANCECASPER]

The best chance we had of this getting done was when Mooney CEO, co-owner, Jonny Pollack owned and flew a 2009 Mooney Acclaim Type S. He had a strong interest in getting it done. Since he sold his airplane in 2023 I don't think the motivation is nearly as strong.

[takair]

18 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The best chance we had of this getting done was when Mooney CEO, co-owner, Jonny Pollack owned and flew a 2009 Mooney Acclaim Type S. He had a strong interest in getting it down. Since he sold his airplane in 2023 I don't think the motivation is nearly as strong.

Regarding the CEO selling his own bird….is there a back story? Hopefully didn’t buy a Piper to replace it…. Does this hint at the health of the company?

[LANCECASPER]

9 minutes ago, takair said:

Regarding the CEO selling his own bird….is there a back story? Hopefully didn’t buy a Piper to replace it…. Does this hint at the health of the company?

I'm guessing that the other owners/investors don't want their CEO flying around in a single engine piston airplane, or can't insure him on a key man policy. That's not unusual.

[Schllc]

1 hour ago, takair said:

Regarding the CEO selling his own bird….is there a back story? Hopefully didn’t buy a Piper to replace it…. Does this hint at the health of the company?

I don’t claim to know Jonny personally, but I knew he was commuting from New York in the plane to Kerville. If I had to fly that route once a week or more frequently I wouldn’t use the Mooney very often. That’s a long haul, and a lot of potential for icing in between.  Even with fiki, doing that regularly would be stressful, at least for me. I’m not saying I couldn’t do it, just not sure I would want to. That may take the fun out of flying my plane. 
I didn’t know about a group of people making an offer for the conversion but pretty sure we would have heard about it here if that happened. If not I would think they would need 25 people willing to pay 50k +(that’s a wag btw) my buddies tbm was only 75k and that was three screens in a turbine  

The avionics change would literally be plug and play with regard to labor.  
The only big challenges would be the panel, the NXI doesn’t have the annunciator panel, it’s integrated and you would probably put the mid continent backup in between screens.   all of the lru’s can stay and the screens use the same harness and mounts  

 I have no idea what it would cost Mooney, or if there are prior obligations to Garmin that are an additional complication, or any vendor for that matter…

It’s baffling that there is a an easy, viable option to generate real cash flow immediately, and there isn’t even an acknowledgment.  
Is it regulatory, financial, mismanagement, apathy, destitution?

where is @A64Pilot?  He knows the airplane manufacturer angle  

mooney has to have copious amounts of data from the g1000 over the years with upgrades and software etc.  how many hours of testing is really required?
 

[hais]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:29 PM, Schllc said:

There are thousands of planes out there with g1000 systems and they will be supported long into the foreseeable future because it is profitable.  Someone told me recently that garmin said they aren’t supporting them now, this is complete bs.  The only limitation they have is with the waas boxes, which requires people wanting them to find salvage. 
Once you have them Garmin will service them as they will 100% of the system, and the rates are very reasonable and make repairs much quicker. 
the interesting thing about all the hangar talk regarding the g1000 is usually driven by people who have not owned one. I have owned them for eight years and recently I put the latest and greatest 500txi, 750, 650, 275 etc in my Aerostar.  It does a few things my g1000 won’t do, but nothing critical,  and it doesn’t have anything I miss when I’m flying the g1000 except for flight stream. 
I really loath the touch screens, they are very difficult for data input in the air. And some of the buttons, especially the radio buttons are so tiny they arent convenient even in smooth air or on the ground. 
some tactile buttons and knobs are preferable to me…

I don’t really see it as an upgrade from the g1000 at all, and if I could have paid to put the g1000 in the Aerostar I would have!

All planes that had the money to engineer platforms  with the g1000 will eventually be eligible for the NXI.  Again, because the number make it practical. 
I never felt like if a plane had the g1000 it was a detriment because the lack of a path to upgrade is irrelevant when what you have is already awesome. 
if you really want to know the low down about a g1000, talk to people who own one. 
I have yet to meet anyone that owns one that doesn’t love it, and sing its praises. 
I have also had two with the NXI, and the changes aren’t really substantial enough to make me miss..

I know a lot of guys here disagree, but none of them that have chimed in so far, have actually owned one, so take both sides with a grain of salt..

I believe the issue is that the manufacturer needs get involved since the unit is part of TC. I recall DA40 owners were frustrated because Diamond wouldn't or couldn't. 

If that's the case, the question would be: will Mooney certify an upgrade path? 

[Pinecone]

This is another area where, IMO, Mooney could go out and find out how many owners want it and are willing to put up a deposit to fund it, then it is available for others to purchase and generate some cash flow.

[EricJ]

A field approval is always an option, albeit probably some work.  If an NXi upgrade really has no mechanical or wiring differences it probably wouldn't be too egregious.   Anybody who wants to put a bit more work in can get an STC and recover some of the cost. 

[201Mooniac]

I'm guessing there is something contractual that stops Garmin from doing an STC?

[Schllc]

5 hours ago, EricJ said:

A field approval is always an option, albeit probably some work.  If an NXi upgrade really has no mechanical or wiring differences it probably wouldn't be too egregious.   Anybody who wants to put a bit more work in can get an STC and recover some of the cost. 

I’m pretty sure the only wiring would be the annunciator panel, assuming that’s an easier route to the upgrade. 
the ultras do not have the annunciator panel, it is integrated into CAS messages on the g1000nxi. 
one would think software is easier to modify, but I don’t know what hoops the FAA makes them jump through for certification.

[Tom F]

This post is to gauge support.  M is not going to invest in any G1000 upgrade certification for what ever reason. In speaking with the folks at G, if we had 50 G1000 owners who are interested in upgrading the G1000 to a yet to be defined GXXXX version, they would make it happen.  In G's mind M is dead.  FWIW I had my avionics shop price a Synthetic Vision unlock thru M and it was north of $10K.  

In closing, IF you've got a G1000 and would be interested in upgrading, reply with YES.  There is no commitment I am just trying to gauge interest.  Cheers!!

 

[Pinecone]

You might want to start a new thread, maybe with a poll.

People might not see it here.

[LANCECASPER]

That’s a Garmin price thing not Mooney. FWIW the Garmin SVT unlock for Cessna, Beechcraft is the same price through Textron. And by the way it is the same part number so will work on any of them plus the Diamond, etc.

[GeeBee]

5 hours ago, Tom F said:

This post is to gauge support.  M is not going to invest in any G1000 upgrade certification for what ever reason. In speaking with the folks at G, if we had 50 G1000 owners who are interested in upgrading the G1000 to a yet to be defined GXXXX version, they would make it happen.  In G's mind M is dead.  FWIW I had my avionics shop price a Synthetic Vision unlock thru M and it was north of $10K.  

In closing, IF you've got a G1000 and would be interested in upgrading, reply with YES.  There is no commitment I am just trying to gauge interest.  Cheers!!

 

Count me in. Yes. I will even sign a contract and deposit with Garmin. 

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, Tom F said:

This post is to gauge support.  M is not going to invest in any G1000 upgrade certification for what ever reason. In speaking with the folks at G, if we had 50 G1000 owners who are interested in upgrading the G1000 to a yet to be defined GXXXX version, they would make it happen.  In G's mind M is dead.  FWIW I had my avionics shop price a Synthetic Vision unlock thru M and it was north of $10K.  

In closing, IF you've got a G1000 and would be interested in upgrading, reply with YES.  There is no commitment I am just trying to gauge interest.  Cheers!!

 

Did Garmin hint at a price for a G1000 upgrade price?

[peterl]

I am interested in the NXI if pricing is within reason.

[skykrawler]

When I look at the TCDS I see nothing that requires the G1000 to be in the airplane. 

Only a mention of the certification basis allowing it to be in there.

[carusoam]

As far a big G supplying expensive boxes to Mooney owners goes…

Mooney is NOT dead to them…

 

(Somewhat recently…)

Big G did a great job knowing every detail needed to install certified APs in a wide range of Mooney models from mid 60s M20Cs up through modern versions…

It took several owners to supply their planes for a set period of time…

 

APs are more challenging to install, and don’t cost nearly as much as a few color screens….

 

Just need to make it happen…

It may help to know who our new big G guy is… we used to have to hunt Trek down for that….

Best regards,

-a-

[Pinecone]

The difference is, for the G1000 the manufacturer has to be involved.  Not so for things like G500, G3X, GFC-500

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:15 AM, Tom F said:

This post is to gauge support.  M is not going to invest in any G1000 upgrade certification for what ever reason. In speaking with the folks at G, if we had 50 G1000 owners who are interested in upgrading the G1000 to a yet to be defined GXXXX version, they would make it happen.  In G's mind M is dead.  FWIW I had my avionics shop price a Synthetic Vision unlock thru M and it was north of $10K.  

In closing, IF you've got a G1000 and would be interested in upgrading, reply with YES.  There is no commitment I am just trying to gauge interest.  Cheers!!

 

YES

[EarthboundMisfit]

Garmin held an online webinar last evening:  Avionics Down Under - G1000 to G1000 NXi Upgrade: Bring New Capabilities to Your Cockpit

This webinar was presented by a sales representative and was clearly a sales pitch to owners of aircraft already qualified for the upgrade from legacy G1000.

Garmin provided pricing on upgrades for various models, as this is done by their dealer network.  2-display systems around $US25K, 3-display systems around $US50-60K.  Only pricing they couldn’t advise was for Cessna Citation Mustang, as Garmin do not do the work - Textron requires this model to be done in-house at a Cessna shop.  

Presenter confirmed the upgrade involves change of GDU’s (Garmin Display Units) only.  Legacy GDU’s must be returned to Garmin.  

Daher offer the upgrade via SB for the Kodiak 100.  Textron require the purchase of a “Letter of Authorisation” (LOA) to upgrade a Beechcraft or Cessna.  A C172 LOA is $US4000.  Upgrades not available on Cirrus airframes “yet”.  Don’t recall seeing Diamond in the list either.  

I asked two questions:

Q: Can Garmin supply a WAAS LRU (ie GIA63/W) as part of the upgrade?
A: No. Garmin no longer manufacture these.  They would need to be sourced from the “grey market”.  

Q: Is GIA64 an alternative to GIA63W?
A: No, as there are “communication issues” and that LRU can’t be integrated.  

To me, both responses are a bit of a smoke screen:

1. Garmin no longer make GIA63 and GIA63W, but they are in their spares pool, so I think they don’t want to reduce their stock of spares.  

2. GIA64 is the default GPS/NAV/COM box now in OEM G1000NXi.  Mooney used GIA64 on the Ultras (I took a photo of the avionics bay from serial #33-0011 from my last visit to the factory in November 2018).  

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 5/15/2024 at 7:36 PM, EarthboundMisfit said:

Garmin held an online webinar last evening:  Avionics Down Under - G1000 to G1000 NXi Upgrade: Bring New Capabilities to Your Cockpit

This webinar was presented by a sales representative and was clearly a sales pitch to owners of aircraft already qualified for the upgrade from legacy G1000.

Garmin provided pricing on upgrades for various models, as this is done by their dealer network.  2-display systems around $US25K, 3-display systems around $US50-60K.  Only pricing they couldn’t advise was for Cessna Citation Mustang, as Garmin do not do the work - Textron requires this model to be done in-house at a Cessna shop.  

Presenter confirmed the upgrade involves change of GDU’s (Garmin Display Units) only.  Legacy GDU’s must be returned to Garmin.  

Daher offer the upgrade via SB for the Kodiak 100.  Textron require the purchase of a “Letter of Authorisation” (LOA) to upgrade a Beechcraft or Cessna.  A C172 LOA is $US4000.  Upgrades not available on Cirrus airframes “yet”.  Don’t recall seeing Diamond in the list either.  

I asked two questions:

Q: Can Garmin supply a WAAS LRU (ie GIA63/W) as part of the upgrade?
A: No. Garmin no longer manufacture these.  They would need to be sourced from the “grey market”.  

Q: Is GIA64 an alternative to GIA63W?
A: No, as there are “communication issues” and that LRU can’t be integrated.  

To me, both responses are a bit of a smoke screen:

1. Garmin no longer make GIA63 and GIA63W, but they are in their spares pool, so I think they don’t want to reduce their stock of spares.  

2. GIA64 is the default GPS/NAV/COM box now in OEM G1000NXi.  Mooney used GIA64 on the Ultras (I took a photo of the avionics bay from serial #33-0011 from my last visit to the factory in November 2018).  

 

Paul Maxwell says that only the GIA63W units on the Mooney with the -20 will ever be able to upgrade to NXi.

So if you are sourcing GIA63W units to upgrade your G1000 Mooney to WAAS and you eventually want to upgrade to NXi, if and when it becomes available, you want to make sure the units you source are -20.