100h duration

[Davidg]

Hi,

For M20J owners, could you tell me the aproximate duration of a 100h / annual visit with no additional work? thx!

[EricJ]

Depends on a number of factors, but anything from a couple of days to a week or two.     

[mike_elliott]

following the maintenance manual 100 he inspection by a qualified experienced with Mooney IA and researching AD's,  one would be hard pressed to do it in less than 3 man days

[Fritz1]

think most shops budget 30h for the inspection according to the Mooney inspection guidelines, fixing stuff comes on top of that, duration is typically determined by parts availability if parts are needed

[201Mooniac]

I believe my annual inspection at Top Gun is estimated to be 26 hours for the M20J.  Given that they can rarely have someone dedicated entirely to my inspection and not handle any help on another project or any walk-in issues it typically takes 4-5 business days just for the inspection and then any repairs as needed which usually is more driven by time to get parts these days than anything else.  I always hope for a completed annual in 2 weeks but plan for 3.

[Pinecone]

I was told to do the Mooney checklist, it is 34 hours.

So the numbers quoted seem to be in the same range.  30 +/-4 hours.

[Davidg]

Ok thanks everyone! So my mechanist seems to be a slow one. My last annual he billed me 37 hours with no extra work…

[EricJ]

11 minutes ago, Davidg said:

Ok thanks everyone! So my mechanist seems to be a slow one. My last annual he billed me 37 hours with no extra work…

That's not outrageous.   It's right in the ballpark of expectations, maybe a bit slow, but not horrible.  

[Davidg]

Yep! The only think that bother me is that every year it is one or two hours more… 

[EricJ]

3 minutes ago, Davidg said:

Yep! The only think that bother me is that every year it is one or two hours more… 

If you have the desire and/or opportunity to do an owner-assisted annual that can help with cost as well as time duration, with the added benefits of having improved personal knowledge on the conditions of the equipment.    My first IA and I had my annuals down to about a day-and-a-half, two days if there was an issue.   That's with no deferred maintenance going in.   It was also the typical grumpy IA that didn't skip anything.

[Davidg]

Would be a top experience. But unfortunately my Mooney is under French regulation. I can only do 50hours visit. 100hours must be handled by a certified mechanist… 

[mike_elliott]

4 minutes ago, EricJ said:

If you have the desire and/or opportunity to do an owner-assisted annual that can help with cost as well as time duration, with the added benefits of having improved personal knowledge on the conditions of the equipment.    My first IA and I had my annuals down to about a day-and-a-half, two days if there was an issue.   That's with no deferred maintenance going in.   It was also the typical grumpy IA that didn't skip anything.

This^

Many intrinsic and subjective advantages to getting your fingernails dirty. Coms and decisions are also not shelved or postponed on improvements, deferrals, or adjustments.

You will also decrease billable times by up to 1/2 if your a contributor and not a hindrance

[A64Pilot]

3 hours ago, Davidg said:

Would be a top experience. But unfortunately my Mooney is under French regulation. I can only do 50hours visit. 100hours must be handled by a certified mechanist… 

In the US anyway an Annual and a 100 hr are the same, the difference is an Annual takes an IA to sign it off where an A&P can sign off a 100 hr so the labor hours should be the same 

[A64Pilot]

3 hours ago, Davidg said:

Ok thanks everyone! So my mechanist seems to be a slow one. My last annual he billed me 37 hours with no extra work…

The first Annual performed by an IA should take significantly longer than succeeding ones, the reason is for the first he has to research every AD and it’s compliance back to the build date, but succeeding ones he only has to check from the last Annual he performed until current time.

[Ragsf15e]

22 hours ago, Davidg said:

Would be a top experience. But unfortunately my Mooney is under French regulation. I can only do 50hours visit. 100hours must be handled by a certified mechanist… 

Not sure what they might allow in France, but I save about 8 billable hours just by pulling all the screws to open every inspection panel and cowling before the inspection begins, and then putting them all back on after.  Your mechanic might entertain that idea as it’s not fun work and it’s only pulling screws.

[EricJ]

23 hours ago, Davidg said:

Would be a top experience. But unfortunately my Mooney is under French regulation. I can only do 50hours visit. 100hours must be handled by a certified mechanist… 

100 hour and annual inspections here also have to be performed a certificated mechanic.    Here it is possible to assist the mechanic under their supervision.    Is that not possible in France?

[Hank]

26 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Not sure what they might allow in France, but I save about 8 billable hours just by pulling all the screws to open every inspection panel and cowling before the inspection begins, and then putting them all back on after.  Your mechanic might entertain that idea as it’s not fun work and it’s only pulling screws.

That's where I started, but I developed a relationship with the mechanic over time and found myself cleaning, gapping and testing plugs; greasing the landing gear [8 grease fittings on each main gear and 11 on the nose wheel]; and I spray Tri-Flo as I replace inspection panels and the belly. I also replace the cowl and spinner. As you work together, your knowledge will increase, and he can trust you to do other tasks also. Sometimes I would come by and do things in the evening after work, and leave a note for him [so he could do the IA part and inspect my work].

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

That's where I started, but I developed a relationship with the mechanic over time and found myself cleaning, gapping and testing plugs; greasing the landing gear [8 grease fittings on each main gear and 11 on the nose wheel]; and I spray Tri-Flo as I replace inspection panels and the belly. I also replace the cowl and spinner. As you work together, your knowledge will increase, and he can trust you to do other tasks also. Sometimes I would come by and do things in the evening after work, and leave a note for him [so he could do the IA part and inspect my work].

That's a sweet relationship.  How long did it take to reach that level of trust with your mechanic?

[Hank]

1 minute ago, Fly Boomer said:

That's a sweet relationship.  How long did it take to reach that level of trust with your mechanic?

Probably about 4 years. He also worked with me on my first oil change, and the first several safety wirings.  

When my old Whelen high-voltage belly blinker went on the fritz, I put in the new one in my hangar, using his tools. He walked me through it, then checked the wiring and connections before I screwed it back into the fuselage. Sadly, I no longer live there, and my new IA doesn't do owner assisted anything . . . . .  

[A64Pilot]

They are out there though, personally I won’t do an Annual unless the owner does all of the grunt work, but then I’m retired and don’t charge either.

Oddly it seems here most have their favorite IA or honestly I suspicion they are too lazy and would rather just pay someone, so I get very few requests.

Plus I don’t want to step on toes

[PT20J]

I have found the trick is to find an IA that is very busy (the good ones usually are). If you can convince them you know what you are doing, it’s easy money for them to do the inspection and log entries if you do the disassembly, assembly, and servicing. My IA charges a flat $750 + hourly rate if he needs to do something extra.

Many years ago, Vern Miller at Reid Hillview airport In San Jose CA used to do a lot of owner assisted work. A lot of tech execs found it therapeutic to spend a couple of days out of the rat race wrenching on their airplanes on Vern’s ramp. Some days there would be four or five of us out there working on our planes while Vern had a hangar full of planes he was maintaining. It was a good deal for all involved.

Skip

[Davidg]

13 hours ago, EricJ said:

100 hour and annual inspections here also have to be performed a certificated mechanic.    Here it is possible to assist the mechanic under their supervision.    Is that not possible in France?

I’m not sure of that. Here we just have the right to do minor mechanic ( 50h , changing lights or battery for example).
anything  that is considered as critical for flying is prohibited for a simple plane owner. 100h/annual is  considered as such. 
Maybe it is possible to find a «  freelance » mechanist that would accept to work with the owner, but I’m not sure it’s completely legal. 
I once asked to assist a 50h visit to learn… the chief of the mechanists refused, saying he didn’t want outside  people in his structure, and that he didn’t want me to learn how to steal his job… not a fun guy…

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, Davidg said:

I’m not sure of that. Here we just have the right to do minor mechanic ( 50h , changing lights or battery for example).
anything  that is considered as critical for flying is prohibited for a simple plane owner. 100h/annual is  considered as such. 
Maybe it is possible to find a «  freelance » mechanist that would accept to work with the owner, but I’m not sure it’s completely legal. 
I once asked to assist a 50h visit to learn… the chief of the mechanists refused, saying he didn’t want outside  people in his structure, and that he didn’t want me to learn how to steal his job… not a fun guy…

There are apprentices that work in shops who are neither an A&P, nor IA. Their work is inspected by an IA. How would people ever get the necessary hours to become an A&P if they never did any work under someone's supervision?

My IA inspects my work when I assist with annuals. It's his name that goes in the logbook. Throughout the year I may sign off on things that an owner can do.

[OR75]

On 2/8/2024 at 11:01 AM, Davidg said:

Would be a top experience. But unfortunately my Mooney is under French regulation. I can only do 50hours visit. 100hours must be handled by a certified mechanist… 

N registered or F registered ?

[Davidg]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:06 PM, OR75 said:

N registered or F registered ?

F