MFT---Putting it ALL on the line

[donkaye]

For those who have not heard the term, MFT is defined as Medical Flight Test.  It took 4½ months, but the day finally arrived on Tuesday.  Tuesday turned out to be one of the worst days of the year due to a "bomb cyclone" that hit the Bay Area.  The FAA examiner agreed to do the ground portion that day and rescheduled the flying portion for today, Thursday.

This whole process started last October when I did not make the vision part of the 2nd Class Medical for the first time.  My left eye was 25/20 instead of 20/20.  I met all the other requirements.  He issued me the 3rd Class and said it was possible to get a Special Issuance by taking a MFT.  I decided to go for it, as there were some things I like to do that require the 2nd Class.  Little did I know the hoops that I would have go through due to that minor issue.  First, I had to get in touch with the Local Medical Branch of the FAA in Los Angeles.  They requested a bunch of documentation from the Optometrist.  After reviewing that they required me to see an Ophthalmologist and added a bunch more requirements.  By now it was December and the documentation was reviewed by the Regional Flight Surgeon in Los Angeles.  Apparently, the results were good enough that they finally sent me a LOA to take a MFT good for 6 months.  Then the process of getting an Appointment with the FSDO started.  I called and called, but no one would return my calls.  I finally went down there in person and rang and rang the bell.  Surprisingly, the FSDO Manager came down and we discussed what I needed.  He said he needed the letter before he could schedule it.  I showed him the LOA that had been emailed to me, but that was not sufficient.  Several more weeks passed (I received the certified LOA letter the day after I spoke with the FSDO Manager) but no response.  I started calling and calling again.  Finally, I got an email that my case had been assigned to an ASI (Air Safety Inspector).  After some more emails back and forth, I got one from the ASI that he could schedule me for the exam in two weeks.

I was thinking the exam would be some simple test of going up and flying around to see that I could see and that would do it.  Little did I know that the test was covered in a special FAA Order 8900.1 Vol. 5, CH 8, Sec. 1.  I read it.  It was extensive.  Uh Oh.  This is serious business.  Recognize that when you go up with the FAA everything may be on the line.  You're being evaluated.  For those interested I've attached the email describing what the appointment would entail.

The examiner was very nice, but he was going to go by the book.  I spent hours getting the documentation organized like I have told my students to do before an exam.  Actually that was good because I took the time to make sure all my aircraft supplements were up to date.  He appreciated that I had bookmarked all the critical aircraft airworthy inspections.  He didn't require any paper charts, but did want to see that what I used in flight were current.  It had been years since I used a VFR Chart so I had previously spent some hours reviewing all items on that chart and what they meant.  He spent a lot of time reviewing the Weight and Balance for the Flight.

Today was the big day.  Last night I found that today was the day for data updates.  That was a surprise.  I loaded up the data on cards but have always used Database Concierge for transfer to the GTN 750.  Big mistake.  When I went out to the plane a couple of hours early to make sure I was on time, I spent a hour trying to get the Concierge to work.  It wouldn't and I'm done with using it in the future.  Garmin just doesn't have their act together with it in my opinion.  Luckily, I brought my computer for contingencies, and dowloaded the data to a card at Atlantic.

The flight was fair and covered all the items on the checklist.  There was a helicopter spotted and he asked me to estimate how far away it was.  He asked me where a certain airport was and whether I thought I could make it if I lost an engine.  I said I could and he said "do it".  It turned out to be pretty easy.  I had been worried that he might asked me to do it off airport.  That would have been more difficult.  He asked me to read a number of items on the panel.  That was easy.  He then asked me to identify a certain landmark and I couldn't find it.  It turns out it was almost totally covered in cloud.  He picked another landmark and I identified it immediately.  He asked me some items that required me to use the Aera 760 and I got through those.  Then it said, "let's go back to San Jose".  Part of the test was showing I could land the plane.  Since I have made a landing video, that would have been a little embarrassing had I messed that up, but it turned out to be a greaser.

Once back at the hangar, I shut own.  Only then did he say I had "passed".

[Will.iam]

3 hours ago, donkaye said:

For those who have not heard the term, MFT is defined as Medical Flight Test.  It took 4½ months, but the day finally arrived on Tuesday.  Tuesday turned out to be one of the worst days of the year due to a "bomb cyclone" that hit the Bay Area.  The FAA examiner agreed to do the ground portion that day and rescheduled the flying portion for today, Thursday.

This whole process started last October when I did not make the vision part of the 2nd Class Medical for the first time.  My left eye was 25/20 instead of 20/20.  I met all the other requirements.  He issued me the 3rd Class and said it was possible to get a Special Issuance by taking a MFT.  I decided to go for it, as there were some things I like to do that require the 2nd Class.  Little did I know the hoops that I would have go through due to that minor issue.  First, I had to get in touch with the Local Medical Branch of the FAA in Los Angeles.  They requested a bunch of documentation from the Optometrist.  After reviewing that they required me to see an Ophthalmologist and added a bunch more requirements.  By now it was December and the documentation was reviewed by the Regional Flight Surgeon in Los Angeles.  Apparently, the results were good enough that they finally sent me a LOA to take a MFT good for 6 months.  Then the process of getting an Appointment with the FSDO started.  I called and called, but no one would return my calls.  I finally went down there in person and rang and rang the bell.  Surprisingly, the FSDO Manager came down and we discussed what I needed.  He said he needed the letter before he could schedule it.  I showed him the LOA that had been emailed to me, but that was not sufficient.  Several more weeks passed (I received the certified LOA letter the day after I spoke with the FSDO Manager) but no response.  I started calling and calling again.  Finally, I got an email that my case had been assigned to an ASI (Air Safety Inspector).  After some more emails back and forth, I got one from the ASI that he could schedule me for the exam in two weeks.

I was thinking the exam would be some simple test of going up and flying around to see that I could see and that would do it.  Little did I know that the test was covered in a special FAA Order 8900.1 Vol. 5, CH 8, Sec. 1.  I read it.  It was extensive.  Uh Oh.  This is serious business.  Recognize that when you go up with the FAA everything may be on the line.  You're being evaluated.  For those interested I've attached the email describing what the appointment would entail.

The examiner was very nice, but he was going to go by the book.  I spent hours getting the documentation organized like I have told my students to do before an exam.  Actually that was good because I took the time to make sure all my aircraft supplements were up to date.  He appreciated that I had bookmarked all the critical aircraft airworthy inspections.  He didn't require any paper charts, but did want to see that what I used in flight were current.  It had been years since I used a VFR Chart so I had previously spent some hours reviewing all items on that chart and what they meant.  He spent a lot of time reviewing the Weight and Balance for the Flight.

Today was the big day.  Last night I found that today was the day for data updates.  That was a surprise.  I loaded up the data on cards but have always used Database Concierge for transfer to the GTN 750.  Big mistake.  When I went out to the plane a couple of hours early to make sure I was on time, I spent a hour trying to get the Concierge to work.  It wouldn't and I'm done with using it in the future.  Garmin just doesn't have their act together with it in my opinion.  Luckily, I brought my computer for contingencies, and dowloaded the data to a card at Atlantic.

The flight was fair and covered all the items on the checklist.  There was a helicopter spotted and he asked me to estimate how far away it was.  He asked me where a certain airport was and whether he thought I could make it if I lost an engine.  I said I could and he said "do it".  It turned out to be pretty easy.  I had been worried that he might asked me to do it off airport.  That would have been more difficult.  He asked me to read a number of items on the panel.  That was easy.  He then asked me to identify a certain landmark and I couldn't find it.  It turns out it was almost totally covered in cloud.  He picked another landmark and I identified it immediately.  He asked me some items that required me to use the Aera 760 and I got through those.  Then it said, "let's go back to San Jose".  Part of the test was showing I could land the plane.  Since I have made a landing video, that would have been a little embarrassing had I messed that up, but it turned out to be a greaser.

Once back at the hangar, I shut own.  Only then did he say I had "passed".

Holy crap don they put you through the ringer. Tenacity wins the day. And as a mental side note if i ever can’t achieve 20/20 then i will treat my flying days like Frozen and “let it go”

[redbaron1982]

I don't understand, aren't corrective glasses allowed for 2nd class and class 1? Or the 25/20 was with corrective lenses?

Great work following all this process through the end and congrats on your renewed 2nd class medical.

[M20F]

Basic med seems so much more to be the better option these days. 

[201er]

7 hours ago, donkaye said:

For those who have not heard the term, MFT is defined as Medical Flight Test.  It took 4½ months, but the day finally arrived on Tuesday. 

I doubt you’re gonna want to go through that again, and especially every 6 months! What are you going to do next time?

[donkaye]

2 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

I don't understand, aren't corrective glasses allowed for 2nd class and class 1? Or the 25/20 was with corrective lenses?

Great work following all this process through the end and congrats on your renewed 2nd class medical.

It wasn't correctible with lenses.

[donkaye]

58 minutes ago, 201er said:

I doubt you’re gonna want to go through that again, and especially every 6 months! What are you going to do next time?

Good question.

[jlunseth]

I flew with Wayne Fisher at a PPP several years ago. He also was having vision problems. He was able to instruct in flight, but as I recall could not act as PIC or had some other limitations. Hope this works out for you Don, I would try a good ophthalmologist to see what can be done. It would be a real loss to our ever-shrinking Mooney community.

[ilovecornfields]

2 hours ago, donkaye said:

Good question.

I would strongly consider basicmed. I think you also meant your vision could only be corrected to 20/25 not 25/20. 25/20 would mean you can read at 25ft what “normal” people could only read at 20 Ft.

I’m not sure the cause of your vision problems and I’m not an ophthalmologist (I can’t even spell it without autocorrect) but macular degeneration can certainly cause the symptoms you’re describing and even simple things like taking AREDS II vitamins can help slow progression.

Talking to your ophthalmologist seems like a good idea since with your experience you’ll likely be able to compensate for significant visual impairment without noticeable degradation in your performance and this may mislead you into not realizing the extent of the problem.

Here’s a good article on macular degeneration which may or may not apply. Simple things like cataracts can also cause the same symptoms, of course.

https://www.aao.org/eye-health/diseases/amd-macular-degeneration

[Utah20Gflyer]

Did all of this effort create a quantifiable increase in safety?  If so where is the evidence?  I want to see the numbers.
 

Could the time spent on all of this have been spent doing something different that would have increased safety more? If your true goal is safety you can’t just do something to increase it, you must do the things that increase safety the most! 

When is the last time you heard about an accident caused by 20/25 vision?  You may say “what about see and avoid?”. My answer to that is every instance I can think of a minor difference in vision wouldn’t have mattered.  
 

Who is more of a risk, a newly minted commercial pilot with 250 hours and 20/20 vision or DonKaye with thousands of hours and 20/25 vision?  Does this really make sense in the terms of safety?  
 

At some point we need to demand real safety programs based on evidence rather than federal job programs masquerading as safety programs.
 

We need to demand better from our government!   
 

Now that I got this off my chest I got some kids on my lawn I got to go yell at! 

[Parker_Woodruff]

While you were previously safe to give flight instruction, now you're really safe if you want to provide transportation for soulless boxes while flying for a cargo company. 

[rbp]

This mirrors, my experience with the medical division of the FAA as well. I’m sorry you’re having to go through this.

[T. Peterson]

22 hours ago, donkaye said:

For those who have not heard the term, MFT is defined as Medical Flight Test.  It took 4½ months, but the day finally arrived on Tuesday.  Tuesday turned out to be one of the worst days of the year due to a "bomb cyclone" that hit the Bay Area.  The FAA examiner agreed to do the ground portion that day and rescheduled the flying portion for today, Thursday.

This whole process started last October when I did not make the vision part of the 2nd Class Medical for the first time.  My left eye was 25/20 instead of 20/20.  I met all the other requirements.  He issued me the 3rd Class and said it was possible to get a Special Issuance by taking a MFT.  I decided to go for it, as there were some things I like to do that require the 2nd Class.  Little did I know the hoops that I would have go through due to that minor issue.  First, I had to get in touch with the Local Medical Branch of the FAA in Los Angeles.  They requested a bunch of documentation from the Optometrist.  After reviewing that they required me to see an Ophthalmologist and added a bunch more requirements.  By now it was December and the documentation was reviewed by the Regional Flight Surgeon in Los Angeles.  Apparently, the results were good enough that they finally sent me a LOA to take a MFT good for 6 months.  Then the process of getting an Appointment with the FSDO started.  I called and called, but no one would return my calls.  I finally went down there in person and rang and rang the bell.  Surprisingly, the FSDO Manager came down and we discussed what I needed.  He said he needed the letter before he could schedule it.  I showed him the LOA that had been emailed to me, but that was not sufficient.  Several more weeks passed (I received the certified LOA letter the day after I spoke with the FSDO Manager) but no response.  I started calling and calling again.  Finally, I got an email that my case had been assigned to an ASI (Air Safety Inspector).  After some more emails back and forth, I got one from the ASI that he could schedule me for the exam in two weeks.

I was thinking the exam would be some simple test of going up and flying around to see that I could see and that would do it.  Little did I know that the test was covered in a special FAA Order 8900.1 Vol. 5, CH 8, Sec. 1.  I read it.  It was extensive.  Uh Oh.  This is serious business.  Recognize that when you go up with the FAA everything may be on the line.  You're being evaluated.  For those interested I've attached the email describing what the appointment would entail.

The examiner was very nice, but he was going to go by the book.  I spent hours getting the documentation organized like I have told my students to do before an exam.  Actually that was good because I took the time to make sure all my aircraft supplements were up to date.  He appreciated that I had bookmarked all the critical aircraft airworthy inspections.  He didn't require any paper charts, but did want to see that what I used in flight were current.  It had been years since I used a VFR Chart so I had previously spent some hours reviewing all items on that chart and what they meant.  He spent a lot of time reviewing the Weight and Balance for the Flight.

Today was the big day.  Last night I found that today was the day for data updates.  That was a surprise.  I loaded up the data on cards but have always used Database Concierge for transfer to the GTN 750.  Big mistake.  When I went out to the plane a couple of hours early to make sure I was on time, I spent a hour trying to get the Concierge to work.  It wouldn't and I'm done with using it in the future.  Garmin just doesn't have their act together with it in my opinion.  Luckily, I brought my computer for contingencies, and dowloaded the data to a card at Atlantic.

The flight was fair and covered all the items on the checklist.  There was a helicopter spotted and he asked me to estimate how far away it was.  He asked me where a certain airport was and whether he thought I could make it if I lost an engine.  I said I could and he said "do it".  It turned out to be pretty easy.  I had been worried that he might asked me to do it off airport.  That would have been more difficult.  He asked me to read a number of items on the panel.  That was easy.  He then asked me to identify a certain landmark and I couldn't find it.  It turns out it was almost totally covered in cloud.  He picked another landmark and I identified it immediately.  He asked me some items that required me to use the Aera 760 and I got through those.  Then it said, "let's go back to San Jose".  Part of the test was showing I could land the plane.  Since I have made a landing video, that would have been a little embarrassing had I messed that up, but it turned out to be a greaser.

Once back at the hangar, I shut own.  Only then did he say I had "passed".

Wow! Excellent work, Maestro!

 I too am sorry to see you have to go through this. After months of bureaucratic incompetence, an examiner sends you a letter with all the requirements you are supposed to meet, or else. They can’t process a simple request in 6 months, but buddy you better perform. Too bad they don’t have a few Chuck Yeagers in the administrative departments to actually accomplish something, but I guess they are saving all of those to pass judgement on your flying skills. What a rodeo. Very happy you got through it!

[Will.iam]

For what its worth, i have no more evidence than my own meandering self, but my father’s vision started going down hill in his early 40’s and he needed glasses by his late 40’s. I started talking Lutein 25mg and Zeaxanthin 5mg BioAstin 12mg every night about 10 years ago when my vision started changing I’m now 51 and still pass 20/20 without glasses or contacts so i’ve have outlasted my dad by 5 years. Interesting enough one flight physical 2 years ago i forgot to take my eye vitamins and could not pass the eye test so had glasses put on my limitations on my medical. I asked the doc if i passed next time i took the physical would he remove the limitation? He said sure if i could do it. So six months later when i was renewing my 1st class medical i made damn sure to take my eye vitamins before i went to bed. Next day at the exam i passed the eye exam. When the doc was about to print out my medical i reminded him to remove the limitation for having to wear glasses and he was surprised and asked how i did it. I’m a firm believer in those eye vitamins and can tell on the days when i forget to take them. Just my personal datam point and it only slows the progression. The day is coming but it’s not today, just renewed my 1st class yesterday  for another 6 months glasses free  

 

[donkaye]

16 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

While you were previously safe to give flight instruction, now you're really safe if you want to provide transportation for soulless boxes while flying for a cargo company. 

Although I don't want to use the 2nd Class for carrying passengers for hire, I do use it for ferrying airplanes and breaking in engines.

[donkaye]

22 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I would strongly consider basicmed. I think you also meant your vision could only be corrected to 20/25 not 25/20. 25/20 would mean you can read at 25ft what “normal” people could only read at 20 Ft.

I’m not sure the cause of your vision problems and I’m not an ophthalmologist (I can’t even spell it without autocorrect) but macular degeneration can certainly cause the symptoms you’re describing and even simple things like taking AREDS II vitamins can help slow progression.

Talking to your ophthalmologist seems like a good idea since with your experience you’ll likely be able to compensate for significant visual impairment without noticeable degradation in your performance and this may mislead you into not realizing the extent of the problem.

Here’s a good article on macular degeneration which may or may not apply. Simple things like cataracts can also cause the same symptoms, of course.

https://www.aao.org/eye-health/diseases/amd-macular-degeneration

Basicmed has limitations I'm not ready to accept.  The things I still want to do cannot be done under it.  Actually, jumping through the hoops required provided some benefit, and after the fact I would probably have to agree with the requirements.  The ophthalmologist requirements meant a thorough examination of the eyes, not done by an optometrist.  It showed healthy eyes and no signs of macular degeneration.  It did show the beginnings of a cataract not significant enough to require action be taken to address it, but is probably what accounts for the uncorrectable vision issue.  So taking action with it in the future most probably would solve the problem.  From a safety point of view, if someone is going to be able to fly passengers for hire, there has be an objective point for qualification.  Thank goodness, also put in place is a method of proving ability to meet the safety requirements if outside that point.  As uncomfortable as it was, the flight requirements were ones I would likely have put in place to prove ability to be a safe commercial pilot.  In a way, the FAA is looking out for all of us.  You really don't want a blind person flying you around.  I just happen to come up against the fence.  Luckily, I was able to get over it.

[Mufflerbearing]

Congratulations Don!  The thought of losing you as a pilot so willing to help and share in the field and on this forum is unfathomable

[cliffy]

Don-  I had to do the same exact check ride about 6 years ago.  Wasn't fun but it was reasonable. 

The Inspector was new and doing his first "eye" flight. He almost cancelled because his FSDO wanted him to monitored by another inspector in their office BUT he was gone for the day they scheduled my flight. Didn't find this out until I hired a pilot to fly me to LAS. After I show up and call in he says he may not be able to do the check ride! After I basically "pitched a fit" he got special dispensation to give me the exam solo though not till after I told him I was heavy (airplane gross weight) and might have too download some fuel depending on how heavy the other inspector was. . 

He had me set up for an off field landing down to 100 feet to see if my depth perception was good. He also said he had to see me actually land the airplane. 

I too did a greaser at HND  He said I knew how to fly the Mooney!  :-) I hope after 2,000 hrs Mooney time. 

After that check ride and a good 3rd Class I filled for Basic Med and have been on it ever since. You'll appreciate it when you can go that route;

NO MORE STREES AT PHYSICAL TIME!  Just find a good personal Physician. 

[Fly Boomer]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:09 PM, cliffy said:

After that check ride and a good 3rd Class I filled for Basic Med and have been on it ever since. You'll appreciate it when you can go that route;

NO MORE STREES AT PHYSICAL TIME!  Just find a good personal Physician. 

Exactly.  I squeaked through my last 3rd class, and then jumped to Basic Med.  My doc is no pushover, but if I fall short in some way, I can fix it on my own terms, and then go back for a re-test.  For a regular medical, if it isn't on the CACI list and the FAA gets involved, things get ugly.

[carusoam]

Way to go DK!

The big guy upstairs only gives us challenges that he knows we can handle…. 
 

It’s clear that Don can handle the most challenging of FAA experiences…  the paperwork circus!

Thank you for sharing all of the details…

It gives a great template for the next MSer that gets to hurdle this fence!
 

Best regards,

-a-

[glbtrottr]

Oh Don.

Glad you’re good


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