Why people get class 3 medicals

[Marauder]

A lot of people that would have otherwise been grounded or had to jump through expensive special issuance or SODA hoops for a long time are still flying legally.

Not to mention how many pilots would have given up flying completely or hid a condition out of fear that it would ground them.

BasicMed for me is a no brainer. I don’t do flight levels, have had medical issues in the past and my PCP says BasicMed to him is less risk than doing a DOT medical for a truck driver.


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[RobertGary1]

On 11/18/2022 at 5:18 PM, Pinecone said:

Many people have gone to a doc in the box that does Commercial Driver's License med exams.

 

Yea any dot doctor doing industrial medicine should be willing to do it. They do it for truck drivers.  I’d not want my pcp involved. 

[carusoam]

People get their class III before age 40…

Because it is a low cost test, that is generally easy to pass… under ordinary conditions…

To fly a GA plane… this hurdle needs to be crossed prior to (or at the time of) getting the student pilot’s license…. Required for solo flight…

The further we get down the X-axis, away from the origin….

After age 40… the quirky genetic issues start to arise…

 

The Class III medical is sooooo ancient… it was focused on the young bucks…. And completely ignored any of the older bucks…

Sooooo….

Right around the time you have time AND money to fly… you find your minor health issues simply don’t fit in the un-updated Class III system….

 

The method of updating the Classic III shortcomings… is

the SI, or Special Issuance…. And

the SODA, where you get to demonstrate your flying abilities…

 

 

Nooow……

The SI can get you back in the left seat… and we are grateful for that…  

But, for me… it required a couple of doctor appointments, and expensive tests…. Yearly…

 

It has the value of a second annual inspection, and costs about as much… and takes more time to get the results…. and Both suffer from maintenance induced issues…

 

The hoops had gotten too hard to get through… without making flying any safer…

 

As you can see… a few people, including David above… have given up flying over the added costs…

The Mooney world is a better place with David in it… 

 

Welcome Basic Med…

If you can drive a car… you can fly a plane…

In the end…  our medical is a historical document…

There are plenty of people with a valid class III medical that have had a heart attack.  
 

Also…

We are still PIC(s)…

No matter which historical document we carry with us… or in our files…. We still decide on our own, in the moment… IMSAFE…   
 

To answer the question directly…

Why do people get their first class III med…

Because they have to…

Getting a second one is optional….

BM has some limitations listed above… Paul did a great job of covering them…

The world is slowly catching up with the GA pilots…. Some countries will be slower than others…

 

Step 1… get first Class III med … earn PPL…

Step 2… get other Class meds to meet your expanding needs….

Step 3… go basic med for general GA flying….

Step 4… go Class III SI as required….

Step 5… continue with Class III for flying in the FLs….

Important to know… getting basic med requires having received a Class III med first… don’t fail or lose your class III med, this blocks access to your BM possibilities…

 

PP thoughts only,

-a-
 

 

 

[carusoam]

Do CFIs require a Class III?

Best regards,

-a-

[Vance Harral]

39 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Do CFIs require a Class III?

Best regards,

-a-

No.  I was surprised by this when BasicMed was first pitched, but you can instruct on BasicMed.

[ilovecornfields]

Can you take a checkride for a new rating with basicmed? 

[jaylw314]

15 hours ago, toto said:

(Health) Aside from the privacy benefits, the argument for BasicMed is that your PCP will understand your overall health much better than someone who sees you only at renewal time, and will be in a much better position to determine your fitness for flight.

5 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Yea any dot doctor doing industrial medicine should be willing to do it. They do it for truck drivers.  I’d not want my pcp involved. 

I think the rent-a-doc's who are willing to do BasicMed don't quite understand the basis of it.  I fail to see how a doc who does DOT exams or an urgent care doc can be able:

"To exercise medical discretion to address, as medically appropriate, any medical conditions identified, and to exercise medical discretion in determining whether any medical tests are warranted as part of the comprehensive medical examination"

Only a physician who knows your history, diagnoses and manages your medical conditions is in a position to comply with that.  To "address" something as straightforward as high blood pressure, for example, often requires some followup visits and medication adjustments.  Will a DOT examiner be doing that?

My (non-lawyer) opinion is that PCP's (or a treating specialist for a predominant condition) should be completing BasicMed.  I suspect there may be potential legal risk for both you and the physician if you use someone that does not treat you on an ongoing basis (and it certainly violates the spirit of the reason for BasicMed to exist in the first place), even if that is technically allowed.

[Deb]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

Can you take a checkride for a new rating with basicmed? 

The short answer is yes.

§ 61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

(a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person   
[…]
(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate    
[…]
(iii) When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in § 61.113(i) [emphasis mine]   

§ 61.113 Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command   
[…]   
(i) A private pilot may act as pilot in command of an aircraft without holding a medical certificate issued under part 67of this chapter provided the pilot holds a valid U.S. driver's license, meets the requirements of § 61.23(c)(3), and complies with this section and all of the following conditions and limitations:   
[…] (and lists the requirements for BasicMed):

(3) The pilot has available in his or her logbook - 

(i) The completed medical examination checklist required under § 68.7 of this chapter; and

(ii) The certificate of course completion required under § 61.23(c)(3).

[RoundTwo]

I quit flying in my working years and now that I’m getting current again, I needed to get the medical taken care of. I saw my AME on 12/20/21 but due to sleep apnea, a deferment was guaranteed. My Class III was issued 10/13/22 with an expiration date of 12/31/2022, a lousy 10 weeks! Luckily, my AME will be able to do my renewals as long as I bring him the appropriate info from my sleep doc yearly. Time to do it again, but at least that initial recertification hurdle has been crossed. And, after 31 years, 11 months and 16 days, my butt was back in the left seat! The struggle was worth it.

R2

[toto]

4 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

you can instruct on BasicMed.

Curious little bit of trivia:

You can exercise instructor privileges on BasicMed, but a DPE must have at least a third-class medical. 

[takair]

1 hour ago, toto said:

Curious little bit of trivia:

You can exercise instructor privileges on BasicMed, but a DPE must have at least a third-class medical. 

I think it may be because the DPE is not instructing, they are examining.
 

There are also some things to watch as an instructor. Many times the instructor job may require ferrying or moving aircraft, sometimes for a new owner, sometimes for a school. This becomes a commercial operation if the person is being paid to do it and would no longer be considered instructing, unless the student is there too. It’s minor, but something to consider. 

[RobertGary1]

3 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

I quit flying in my working years and now that I’m getting current again, I needed to get the medical taken care of. I saw my AME on 12/20/21 but due to sleep apnea, a deferment was guaranteed. My Class III was issued 10/13/22 with an expiration date of 12/31/2022, a lousy 10 weeks! Luckily, my AME will be able to do my renewals as long as I bring him the appropriate info from my sleep doc yearly. Time to do it again, but at least that initial recertification hurdle has been crossed. And, after 31 years, 11 months and 16 days, my butt was back in the left seat! The struggle was worth it.

R2

Why did you not do basicmed?

[GaryP1007]

People get their class III before age 40…
Because it is a low cost test, that is generally easy to pass… under ordinary conditions…
To fly a GA plane… this hurdle needs to be crossed prior to (or at the time of) getting the student pilot’s license…. Required for solo flight…
The further we get down the X-axis, away from the origin….
After age 40… the quirky genetic issues start to arise…
 
The Class III medical is sooooo ancient… it was focused on the young bucks…. And completely ignored any of the older bucks…

Sooooo….
Right around the time you have time AND money to fly… you find your minor health issues simply don’t fit in the un-updated Class III system….
 
The method of updating the Classic III shortcomings… is
the SI, or Special Issuance…. And
the SODA, where you get to demonstrate your flying abilities…
 
 
Nooow……
The SI can get you back in the left seat… and we are grateful for that…  
But, for me… it required a couple of doctor appointments, and expensive tests…. Yearly…
 
It has the value of a second annual inspection, and costs about as much… and takes more time to get the results…. and Both suffer from maintenance induced issues…
 
The hoops had gotten too hard to get through… without making flying any safer…
 
As you can see… a few people, including David above… have given up flying over the added costs…
The Mooney world is a better place with David in it… 
 
Welcome Basic Med…
If you can drive a car… you can fly a plane…
In the end…  our medical is a historical document…
There are plenty of people with a valid class III medical that have had a heart attack.  
 
Also…
We are still PIC(s)…
No matter which historical document we carry with us… or in our files…. We still decide on our own, in the moment… IMSAFE…   
 
To answer the question directly…
Why do people get their first class III med…
Because they have to…
Getting a second one is optional….
BM has some limitations listed above… Paul did a great job of covering them…
The world is slowly catching up with the GA pilots…. Some countries will be slower than others…
 
Step 1… get first Class III med … earn PPL…
Step 2… get other Class meds to meet your expanding needs….
Step 3… go basic med for general GA flying….
Step 4… go Class III SI as required….
Step 5… continue with Class III for flying in the FLs….
Important to know… getting basic med requires having received a Class III med first… don’t fail or lose your class III med, this blocks access to your BM possibilities…
 
PP thoughts only,
-a-
 
 
 

Amen. (As I sit and am grounded while I wait for my SI to come).


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[EricJ]

7 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Can you take a checkride for a new rating with basicmed? 

I did my Instrument and Multi-Engine both on Basic Med.   It simplifies things significantly.   When the DPE is doing the usual paperwork interrogation and you have to make sure you have everything just right, when he asks for your medical stuff you just say, "I'm on Basic Med" and that fully completes that task.   No paperwork, nothing, he just checks the box and you move on to the next thing.    Way better. 

[rbp]

On 11/19/2022 at 11:35 AM, Rwsavory said:

nurse practitioners

an NP can perform the exam, but an MD (DO?) has to sign the checklist. no clue about Chiropractors

[jaylw314]

8 minutes ago, rbp said:

an NP can perform the exam, but an MD (DO?) has to sign the checklist. no clue about Chiropractors

Reading the BasicMed stuff, it looks like the FAA isn't taking a position and simply saying that the practitioners need to be 'qualified' to perform the CMEC, which may vary from state to state.  In other words, it might be okay until it's not 

[philiplane]

I go with a Class 3 because it's 20 minutes in the doctor's office, and $100. As long as I can walk in under my own power, see and hear reasonably well, have normal blood pressure and no diabetes, I walk out with the certificate in hand. Basic Med takes too much time, and time is one thing I don't have. 

And let's be honest. A lot of people go with Basic Med because they're unhealthy enough that they probably wouldn't pass a Class 3. And a Class 3 is not a very high bar to begin with.  

Edited November 20, 2022 by philiplane

[rbp]

48 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Reading the BasicMed stuff, it looks like the FAA isn't taking a position and simply saying that the practitioners need to be 'qualified' to perform the CMEC, which may vary from state to state.  In other words, it might be okay until it's not 

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_68-1A.pdf

Physician Qualifications. The FAA relies on the determination of each State (as well as each territory and possession of the United States) as to which persons it will license as physicians. If the person holds a license as a physician issued by any State, territory, or possession, then they meet the requirement as a state-licensed physician. The FAA notes that all States license medical doctors (M.D.) and doctors of osteopathic medicine (D.O.) as physicians; although Federal and some State laws may permit the licensure of other persons, such as doctors of dental surgery (D.D.S.), as physicians. While the FAA expects that these specialists (e.g., D.D.S., dentist, podiatrist, etc.) who do not also hold an M.D. or D.O. would not have the breadth of training for a BasicMed medical examination, the FAA will rely on each State-licensed physician to determine whether he or she is qualified to conduct the medical examination.

 

it specifically states *physician*. an NP is not a physician in any state.

[M20F]

27 minutes ago, philiplane said:

And let's be honest. A lot of people go with Basic Med because they're unhealthy enough that they probably wouldn't pass a Class 3. And a Class 3 is not a very high bar to begin with.

Do not interject this into the discussion, 61.53 need not apply.  This is like weight and balance or dare I say using a hoist to jack your Mooney.  
 
You @philiplane are a bad person!

[Hank]

28 minutes ago, philiplane said:

I go with a Class 3 because it's 20 minutes in the doctor's office, and $100. As long as I can walk in under my own power, see and hear reasonably well, have normal blood pressure and no diabetes, I walk out with the certificate in hand. Basic Med takes too much time, and time is one thing I don't have. 

And let's be honest. A lot of people go with Basic Med because they're unhealthy enough that they probably wouldn't pass a Class 3. And a Class 3 is not a very high bar to begin with.

I went Basic because the local AME is a pediatrician with poor bedside manner, and no qualms about leaving me sitting fir an hour after my appointment, in the waiting room full of sick, coughing children too young to cover their mouths or not touch everything. 

Now it's 20 minutes in Urgent Care, with mostly empty waiting rooms. Some make appointments, some don't. 

[WaynePierce]

On 11/19/2022 at 10:14 AM, DCarlton said:

What problem did we solve with Basic Med? 

It saved me about 20 grand, out of pocket, because the FAA wanted a PT scan (or CT scan, I don't remember) that the doctor said I no longer needed so the Insurance company wouldn't pay for after I was CURED of Cancer.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

I quit flying in my working years and now that I’m getting current again, I needed to get the medical taken care of. I saw my AME on 12/20/21 but due to sleep apnea, a deferment was guaranteed. My Class III was issued 10/13/22 with an expiration date of 12/31/2022, a lousy 10 weeks! Luckily, my AME will be able to do my renewals as long as I bring him the appropriate info from my sleep doc yearly. Time to do it again, but at least that initial recertification hurdle has been crossed. And, after 31 years, 11 months and 16 days, my butt was back in the left seat! The struggle was worth it.

R2

Fingers crossed there won't be any more medical issues in your future! 

[hubcap]

I have no known health issues and still get the Class III so I can fly in the flight levels. 

[Sabremech]

Even though I’m done with the flying part of life, I’m getting more involved in the Mooney maintenance side of aviation. Looking to expand into new things Mooney related. Adding some more parts into my over due cowling project that will give it a good kick start again! 
David

[jaylw314]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:01 AM, rbp said:

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_68-1A.pdf

Physician Qualifications. The FAA relies on the determination of each State (as well as each territory and possession of the United States) as to which persons it will license as physicians. If the person holds a license as a physician issued by any State, territory, or possession, then they meet the requirement as a state-licensed physician. The FAA notes that all States license medical doctors (M.D.) and doctors of osteopathic medicine (D.O.) as physicians; although Federal and some State laws may permit the licensure of other persons, such as doctors of dental surgery (D.D.S.), as physicians. While the FAA expects that these specialists (e.g., D.D.S., dentist, podiatrist, etc.) who do not also hold an M.D. or D.O. would not have the breadth of training for a BasicMed medical examination, the FAA will rely on each State-licensed physician to determine whether he or she is qualified to conduct the medical examination.

 

it specifically states *physician*. an NP is not a physician in any state.

That was the part I was referencing, although I was referring to the question of whether chiropractors (and optometrists, podiatrists and dentists) could do so, since those are all technically within the Medicare definition of "physician"