TBO of inner tubes

[ArtVandelay]

I will be replacing a tire in upcoming annual.

 

I have Michelon tubes installed 7 years ago.

 

Should the inner tube be replaced as well?

[Ron McBride]

48 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

 

I will be replacing a tire in upcoming annual.

 

I have Michelon tubes installed 7 years ago.

 

Should the inner tube be replaced as well?

 

Why not.  Tubes are cheap vs the headache of a flat. 
 

[M20F]

I personally don’t reuse tubes unless in a AOG situation.  My experience is they tend to have issues the second time around and as Ron says they are cheap.  

[LANCECASPER]

An airplane I bought last November had Michelin Air tires and Michelin Airstop tubes that were original from 2008. All three hold air very well, however to be sure I am changing them with new Michelin Airs and Airstops at the annual the end of August.

[Shadrach]

I use airstop tubes. I typically replace them with the tires. The last set showed no sign of deterioration so I bagged them and put them in the hat rack. 
 

The only time I’ve ever blown a tire was on a Sunday at a field with no FBO. I did get a hold of the mechanic on field. He gave me permission to “borrow” a wheel and tire from a 201 that was under his care but hadn’t flown in years. I was on my way in an hour but I’d have been in a world of hurt without his generosity. I returned five days later and reinstalled the wheel on that old 201.   I always keep spare tubes with me now.

[KB4]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

 

I will be replacing a tire in upcoming annual.

 

I have Michelon tubes installed 7 years ago.

 

Should the inner tube be replaced as well?

 

Yes, decrease chance of blow out exponentially.  Throw used good tube in a sealed ziplock and throw it ur flyaway bag as spare which you will likely never need if using Michelin.  

[ArtVandelay]

Why not.  Tubes are cheap vs the headache of a flat. 
 

I was thinking of infant mortality vs tried and tested.

[mike_elliott]

A reused tube runs the risk of a fold from being prestretched from previous use when reinstalling. When that happens, a flat follows shortly, usually away from your jacks and toolbox when there is a foot of snow or its over 95 deg. How do I know this? 

[Browncbr1]

Air stop tubes are def the way to go.  

[201er]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I have Michelon tubes installed 7 years ago.

I fly a lot so tires get replaced from tread wear. I don't think a tire lasts me more than 2 years. So, I can get a couple uses out of a good tube. But if the tires are only replaced in 7 years, I don't think you'll want to have a 14 year old tube before next tire replacement...

[M20F]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I was thinking of infant mortality vs tried and tested.

@mike_elliott explains it well.  They are kind of a one and done thing. 

[jetdriven]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I was thinking of infant mortality vs tried and tested.

star lock washers are also tried and tested, but also single-use.  just get the Airstop tubes and follow the manual, inflate to rated PSI and then check in 24hr.

[47U]

5 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Should the inner tube be replaced as well?

Yes, replace the inner tube.  My nose tire was discovered flat on landing after a 25 minute flight returning home from a nearby airport.  It had been in service for 8 years (airplane was AOG for 3 of those years), and was due to be changed out at the next annual inspection because of tread wear.  Is this pinhole material failure?  Age related?  There was no evidence of a puncture on the tire nor was there any debris inside the tire.  It held air perfectly, until it didn’t.

I’ve since been told (by an A&P, quoting an IA) that tires and tubes should be replaced after five years in service.  Maybe if parked on the ramp and exposed to the elements, but I’m in a hangar, so…..  Other than tread wear, the tire looked fine.

Regardless, I’d like to know why this tube failed.

  

[Greg Ellis]

19 minutes ago, 47U said:

Yes, replace the inner tube.  My nose tire was discovered flat on landing after a 25 minute flight returning home from a nearby airport.  It had been in service for 8 years (airplane was AOG for 3 of those years), and was due to be changed out at the next annual inspection because of tread wear.  Is this pinhole material failure?  Age related?  There was no evidence of a puncture on the tire nor was there any debris inside the tire.  It held air perfectly, until it didn’t.

I’ve since been told (by an A&P, quoting an IA) that tires and tubes should be replaced after five years in service.  Maybe if parked on the ramp and exposed to the elements, but I’m in a hangar, so…..  Other than tread wear, the tire looked fine.

Regardless, I’d like to know why this tube failed.

  

I had the exact same thing happen to my nose wheel tube.  Landed, spent a weekend in Houston, went back to airport to leave on Sunday, flat tire.  Mechanic took it off and showed me the hole almost in the exact location as yours.  He could not find a corresponding puncture or hole or issue with the tire itself.  He put a new tube in and away we went.  Definitely a head scratcher for the mechanic.

[kortopates]

The Michelin Air stop tubes work because they are made from butyl. You can purchase a generic Butyl tube from Dresser with the same properties at a significant savings over Michelin. But check pricing from both Dresser and Aircraft spruce since one is cheaper for the same tubes and i forget which.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shadrach]

7 minutes ago, 47U said:

Yes, replace the inner tube.  My nose tire was discovered flat on landing after a 25 minute flight returning home from a nearby airport.  It had been in service for 8 years (airplane was AOG for 3 of those years), and was due to be changed out at the next annual inspection because of tread wear.  Is this pinhole material failure?  Age related?  There was no evidence of a puncture on the tire nor was there any debris inside the tire.  It held air perfectly, until it didn’t.

I’ve since been told (by an A&P, quoting an IA) that tires and tubes should be replaced after five years in service.  Maybe if parked on the ramp and exposed to the elements, but I’m in a hangar, so…..  Other than tread wear, the tire looked fine.

Regardless, I’d like to know why this tube failed.

  

Only plausible explanation in my mind is a small imperfection in the tire side wall or very small piece of FOD sandwiched up against the tube rubbing a whole in the tube over time. It would not be obvious to the naked eye during disassembly.  AOG for 3 fargin years?  That's another thread... 

[Shadrach]

3 minutes ago, kortopates said:

The Michelin Air stop tubes work because they are made from butyl. You can purchase a generic Butyl tube from Dresser with the same properties at a significant savings over Michelin. But check pricing from both Dresser and Aircraft spruce since one is cheaper for the same tubes and i forget which.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have not had great luck with Dresser tubes.  I saved a used Dresser tube in a zip lock bag after going to Airstops after my last blow out. I just pitched it as it had deteriorated to the point of crumbling. Maybe any tube would have done that but after having one split while in service and the other rot while sealed in plastic, my anecdotal experience is that they are not created equal...at least not the batch that I bought.

[Mark89114]

For you guys carrying a tube and tire around for years, you will never ever need it, the day after you loan it to somebody, guaranteed flat tire.  My first airplane C-152 I hauled around a spare landing light and nav lights, not once in 15 years did they ever go out.   Your mileage may vary.

 

[47U]

47 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

AOG for 3 fargin years?  That's another thread... 

Yeah, it was a dark time.  Work deployments, medical issues, stub spar beef up SB, panel upgrade… I’ve got all the (psychological) excuses.  Please don’t judge.  And I won’t be starting a thread on it, but would certainly tell you about that time over a cold beverage, on my tab, even.  Therapeutic.   

The only way I can afford this luxury is if I do my own mx.  The upside is, I saved the avgas money and got rid of my Narco equipment, except for the DME 890.  108.6 keeps me out of the Beale TFR, easy-peasy.    

[A64Pilot]

The five year thing likely comes from the Military, every fabric and rubber component had a 5 year replacement life, we even used to stencil the seat belts and seat covers on the OH-58 with installation dates, but hoses time in service, even O-rings with 5 yrs from cure date were disposed of.

I’m not throwing away tires and tubes every five years.

The theory of tires and tubes together comes from supposedly the tube stretches to fit the tire, next tire may be slightly smaller and tube will be too big, I’ve not seen that but who knows. The tube does chafe and wear some, especially if tire talc isn’t used, supposedly baby powder is abrasive.

My tires last until they dry rot, that’s what happens when most landings are on grass.

My Mooney came with flat spots, not enough to feel so I guess I’ll replace them eventually, and will likely use new tubes too.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I was thinking of infant mortality vs tried and tested.

I’ll be the odd man out.  I’ve seen more newer tubes fail than older ones.  I replace them on condition, wrinkles, areas of abrasion are causes for replacement.

Clarence

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 47U said:

Yes, replace the inner tube.  My nose tire was discovered flat on landing after a 25 minute flight returning home from a nearby airport.  It had been in service for 8 years (airplane was AOG for 3 of those years), and was due to be changed out at the next annual inspection because of tread wear.  Is this pinhole material failure?  Age related?  There was no evidence of a puncture on the tire nor was there any debris inside the tire.  It held air perfectly, until it didn’t.

I’ve since been told (by an A&P, quoting an IA) that tires and tubes should be replaced after five years in service.  Maybe if parked on the ramp and exposed to the elements, but I’m in a hangar, so…..  Other than tread wear, the tire looked fine.

Regardless, I’d like to know why this tube failed.

  

I’ve seen many with the same type of small puncture with no hole visible in the tire and no small sharpe debris inside the tire.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, 47U said:

Yeah, it was a dark time.  Work deployments, medical issues, stub spar beef up SB, panel upgrade… I’ve got all the (psychological) excuses.  Please don’t judge.  And I won’t be starting a thread on it, but would certainly tell you about that time over a cold beverage, on my tab, even.  Therapeutic.   

The only way I can afford this luxury is if I do my own mx.  The upside is, I saved the avgas money and got rid of my Narco equipment, except for the DME 890.  108.6 keeps me out of the Beale TFR, easy-peasy.    

I’d be happy to buy the beverages to hear that story. I’m a based a few 1000 miles away unfortunately…though I have been known to stop at Ikeda’s in Auburn on my way down the hill after a ski weekend.

[M20F]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I’ve seen many with the same type of small puncture with no hole visible in the tire and no small sharpe debris inside the tire.

Clarence

Need to use the right Talc.  Baby powder and what not has microabrasives that will cut up tubes.  Tire Talc does not.  Little knives rolling around for 8yrs. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

Need to use the right Talc.  Baby powder and what not has microabrasives that will cut up tubes.  Tire Talc does not.  Little knives rolling around for 8yrs. 

Well, that would explain the leaks my children had in their diapers.

Clarence