M20F Posted March 23, 2022 Report Posted March 23, 2022 I have followed the posts about Jose’s situation and hope he gets back into it. In the meantime anyone know of kits/STC’s out there available for new installs anywhere? Quote
hammdo Posted March 23, 2022 Report Posted March 23, 2022 Wow from 3k to 10k - guess if you want them bad enough… Bladders are looking more likely… -Don Quote
ArtVandelay Posted March 23, 2022 Report Posted March 23, 2022 Wow from 3k to 10k - guess if you want them bad enough… Bladders are looking more likely… -DonI thought bladders cost you a few gallons for each side, so you’ll have less capacity in both fuel and useful load. Quote
hammdo Posted March 23, 2022 Report Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) They have the extended sizes I thought. @Alan Fox had some used I believe for an F or J. May ask him to be certain. They do cost ~35 lbs of UL. May be an option vs these with a tank reseal added to the cost... http://www.griggsaircraft.com/fabrication/mooney_bladders -Don Edited March 23, 2022 by hammdo Quote
Danb Posted March 23, 2022 Report Posted March 23, 2022 4 hours ago, 1980Mooney said: monroy aerospace, Mooney Fuel Increase Upgrade, upgrade mooney, increase mooney fuel, upgrade mooney fuel, upgrade long range mooney, fuel tanks (emapa.aero) It says he may be back in business shipping kits this year. They can only be installed at Blue Skies Aviation in San Marcos, TX. See webpage It says 60 hours installation (I had them installed about 20 years ago in San Antonio - sounds about right). So the kit is now $10k plus about $6K install. There are no others. Had mine installed about 16 years ago in Florida arguably the best $10gs spent on my Bravo 1 Quote
ZuluZulu Posted March 25, 2022 Report Posted March 25, 2022 I bought a plane that already had LR tanks for this very reason, just in case they didn't come back on the market. Encouraging to see the STC might be available once more. 1 Quote
sekomel Posted March 25, 2022 Report Posted March 25, 2022 I am also waiting for Jose back to the fields, hope he will have full recover soon..on the other hand, I have contacted with someone name 'Shaune' via 'emapa.aero as and here is his reply about 'Monroy Tanks' 'Yes we are in the process of getting a new PMA. Will probably be ready to get these starting to fgo out in about 5 months. I can put your name on our list. Once we have our PMA, then we will take deposits in an escrow account. The order in which you are on the list will be determined by who pre-orders with money in escrow first. We have on customer in Germany who will be getting the first two kits.' 'The kits are $10,000.' I can understand price will go up as they did some invest in it but 10k...? I think it is way expensive.. Is there any more information or someone's experience about 'bladders type fuel'? Any pictures, schemes, more than welcome.. I need extra fuel tanks for my circumnavigate the world project.. Thanks so much Quote
carusoam Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 On 3/25/2022 at 5:17 PM, sekomel said: I am also waiting for Jose back to the fields, hope he will have full recover soon..on the other hand, I have contacted with someone name 'Shaune' via 'emapa.aero as and here is his reply about 'Monroy Tanks' 'Yes we are in the process of getting a new PMA. Will probably be ready to get these starting to fgo out in about 5 months. I can put your name on our list. Once we have our PMA, then we will take deposits in an escrow account. The order in which you are on the list will be determined by who pre-orders with money in escrow first. We have on customer in Germany who will be getting the first two kits.' 'The kits are $10,000.' I can understand price will go up as they did some invest in it but 10k...? I think it is way expensive.. Is there any more information or someone's experience about 'bladders type fuel'? Any pictures, schemes, more than welcome.. I need extra fuel tanks for my circumnavigate the world project.. Thanks so much The bladder guy…. -a- 1 Quote
Urs_Wildermuth Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 Even if the Monroy tanks come back, what about Mooneys in Europe? It is totally unpracticable to fly a non-LR Mooney to Texas for this mod. Quote
Guest Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 On 3/23/2022 at 2:24 PM, hammdo said: They have the extended sizes I thought. @Alan Fox had some used I believe for an F or J. May ask him to be certain. They do cost ~35 lbs of UL. May be an option vs these with a tank reseal added to the cost... http://www.griggsaircraft.com/fabrication/mooney_bladders -Don They did do add weight and reduce 64 gallon tanks to 54 gallons and cost more than a complete strip and reseal. Mooney had it right at manufacture, the wing wasn’t designed with bladders in mind. Clarence Quote
aviatoreb Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Urs_Wildermuth said: Even if the Monroy tanks come back, what about Mooneys in Europe? It is totally unpracticable to fly a non-LR Mooney to Texas for this mod. I have a wild suggestion - what if you bring Texas to Europe? (Or Minnesota?). I had my LR tanks installed by the guys at Weepnomore in Wilmar, MN and they did a fantastic job. About 6 years ago. I would guess (just thinking out loud - I don't know) that an all expenses paid trip to Europe would be fun especially if you made it worth their while. What if 3 or 4 Mooneys in Europe could manage to split a lucrative consulting fee cost on top of normal install? I mean the cost savings of not flying to Texas could legitametly make such a large booty purse that you might be able to woo one of the several real Mooney fuel tank experts to Europe for a few weeks junket? 2 1 Quote
Guest Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 10 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said: 64 gallon bladders have been available for 20 years, Clarence. Just FYI. Jim Yes, but filling in the original tank volume with bladders costs 5 gallons per side. Trying to get back your original capacity adds two more tanks, more complexity, more connections and possible leaks. Clarence Quote
MisfitSELF Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 Looks like they're back! But it's going to cost you...10 AMU and that's probably not including labor. https://www.emapa.aero/Monroy-Mooney-Fuel-Increase-Upgrade-p/mooney-fuel-increase-upgrade.htm Quote
carusoam Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 1 minute ago, MisfitSELF said: Looks like they're back! But it's going to cost you...10 AMU and that's probably not including labor. https://www.emapa.aero/Monroy-Mooney-Fuel-Increase-Upgrade-p/mooney-fuel-increase-upgrade.htm That is really interesting… See if @Gagarin is around for comment? Or these guys… http://www.blueskiesaviation.aero In San Marcos… Best regards, -a- Quote
LANCECASPER Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, nosky2high said: Does the install of the long range tank labor include a reseal of the current main tanks? No Quote
sekomel Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, MisfitSELF said: Looks like they're back! But it's going to cost you...10 AMU and that's probably not including labor. https://www.emapa.aero/Monroy-Mooney-Fuel-Increase-Upgrade-p/mooney-fuel-increase-upgrade.htm yes I saw that as well but they are not ready to produce..they are now gathering the orders.. see this post for details.. also I have spoken with Jose Monroy couple days ago, and his sound was not good as I have spoken few months ago..I hope he will recover soon but not quite sure he will continue to produce the kits anymore.. actually I am looking for any idea for kits scheme/diagram/drawings to produce the kit from the start and pay Jose for the STC’s copyright. Quote
FlyingDude Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 Feels funny that the mere paperwork for extended tanks should cost more than what gfc500 equipment, mounting brackets, hardware and STC costs... Is this a brand new STC that requires a few plane crashes or a rework of the existing STC?? 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 3 hours ago, MisfitSELF said: Looks like they're back! But it's going to cost you...10 AMU and that's probably not including labor. https://www.emapa.aero/Monroy-Mooney-Fuel-Increase-Upgrade-p/mooney-fuel-increase-upgrade.htm This is a sad turn of events for the Monroy Long Range Tank STC. The owner of EMAPA, Shaune Maycock, has been on Mooneyspace a few times and it didn't go well for him. His first screen name was @mooneybuilder And then he came back on with the screen name @Shaune. There may be others as well. His company used to be called Blue Skies Aviation. I have never done business there, but this only post I could find was not flattering. If he purchased the STC there are costs involved for sure, but he has raised the price of the kit (instructions and a few pieces) from $3500 to $10,000 and the install must be done at his shop. The labor used to be quoted at 40 hours by shops that installed them. He has them quoted at 55-60 hours ($5500-$6000) now. To my knowledge he has no experience doing one of these tank upgrades, but I may be wrong. Of course he needs a PMA to turn out the parts, but the installed cost has gone up from $7000 when I had Jose Monroy do it for me in 1997 to now $16,000. This is very labor intensive but not parts intensive. If labor went up from let's say $4000 to $6000 and he charges $10,000 for the kit he won't sell many kits. Even though it's an excellent upgrade (I've had it on 4 of the 7 Mooneys I've owned), people don't enjoy feeling like they are getting ripped off. 1 3 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, FlyingDude said: Feels funny that the mere paperwork for extended tanks should cost more than what gfc500 equipment, mounting brackets, hardware and STC costs... Is this a brand new STC that requires a few plane crashes or a rework of the existing STC?? It's not just paperwork. There are parts included in the kit. But you're also paying for all of the engineering and testing that took place to get this approved years ago. It was exhaustive and it's detailed somewhere here on Mooneyspace. The price that Jose charged for the STC and kit was an absolute bargain when you consider everything that went into it and when you compare it to other STCs for various upgrades out there. To go from $3500 to $10000 for the STCC/kit with the new source seems like a lot, but in the end it does make the mission profile of the airplane much more flexible. After using it for long trips I wouldn't be without it on a Mooney. 3 Quote
FlyingDude Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 It's about 3500$ to reseal one extended tank. Makes 7000 both. Give it 500$ in labor and 200$ in parts for the plumbing. 7700$. If the 10k$ is for turnkey solution, I would understand the 2300$ cost for the STC. I wouldn't be happy about it but I'd understand... Look at price discrepancies between experimental and TSOd avionics... But if it's only for the paperwork or STC+kit only (not the labor)... nope... You know... Much as I love my Mooney, if I were rolling in dough, I'd be riding a Malibu Mirage... Or Pilatus PC-12... (Still no Cirrus. Lol) And I would not lean aggressively in cruise or be veeery gentle on brakes... I know I'm not the only CB here.. Quote
LANCECASPER Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, FlyingDude said: It's about 3500$ to reseal one extended tank. Makes 7000 both. Give it 500$ in labor and 200$ in parts for the plumbing. 7700$. If the 10k$ is for turnkey solution, I would understand the 2300$ cost for the STC. I wouldn't be happy about it but I'd understand... Look at price discrepancies between experimental and TSOd avionics... But if it's only for the paperwork or STC+kit only (not the labor)... nope... You know... Much as I love my Mooney, if I were rolling in dough, I'd be riding a Malibu Mirage... Or Pilatus PC-12... (Still no Cirrus. Lol) And I would not lean aggressively in cruise or be veeery gentle on brakes... I know I'm not the only CB here.. This has nothing to do with resealing your tanks. It's for the long range tank STC, no labor. Quote
philiplane Posted April 5, 2022 Report Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) The price increase, combined with the sole installing shop restriction, seems to severely limit the market for this STC. On the EMAPA site, there is this noteworthy quote: "EMAPA stands for high quality while at the same time, bringing the best price for the customer." It wouldn't be the first time a good STC was ruined by bad business practices. Metco Aire did it with their PA23 tip tanks. Raised the price from $6k to 10k, and never sold another set. Now, they are out of business. Edited April 6, 2022 by philiplane 1 Quote
jetdriven Posted April 6, 2022 Report Posted April 6, 2022 TKS did that, those kits used to be like 15 or 20 grand and now they’re like 80 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted April 6, 2022 Report Posted April 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said: In 2001 Lone Star Aero, then a very reputable Mooney shop located at San Antonio Airport, installed my Monroy Long Range Tanks. They billed me for 51 hours. The entire bill including the STC parts, the addition of wing sight gauges, sealer used on the new tanks and all labor came to $5,942. General inflation has been 60% since then so that would about $9,500 in 2022 dollars. Where I got the 40 hours from was what Paul Beck quoted me in 2014 on an Ovation, since their shop rate was $100/hr at the time.. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted April 6, 2022 Report Posted April 6, 2022 I must have reached grandfatherly status on my post to Shaune… Use caution going forwards… He may have grown up since… Its been about seven years… Oddly, MS has a great memory… Go MS! Best regards, -a- “Shaune, MooneySpace is a community. It takes all comers. We are a builder of relationships. Welcoming yourself into a community is difficult when you start out with wild accusations against a well respected supplier to our very narrow industry. Now, you have explained that you are a business with a complaint against the well respected individual's business... I look forward to getting to know you better. I am sure you have something positive to offer. Best regards, -a-“ Quote
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