lycoming EIS woes...

[PT20J]

1 minute ago, jetdriven said:

You could just put the power conditioner on the power line to the EIS. I have a friend who installed a 28V surefly on his 201. He has had a bunch of problems like the OP has listed.   

I put a SureFly SIM on my 28V M20J last year and had similar problems with it. I got the power conditioner, but didn't install it as it required a module and large capacitor to be located physically near the SIM. That was too kludgy for me and I didn't like the idea of so many live 28V connections in the engine compartment. I returned the SIM and SureFly issued a full refund. I am supposed to be on a list to get a new model with the higher range voltage regulator and faster boot time (to eliminate the burp during mag checks) which Jason told me would be available in Q1, but I haven't heard anything so perhaps it's not available yet.

I sent both Slicks supplied with the factory rebuilt IO-360 to Aricraft Magneto Service at 200 hrs. The left one has a SB on the impulse coupling rivets and since I was going to replace the SIM and had the mag off I decided to do it early. The right on had a change in E-gap timing and was getting 200 rpm mag drops at runup. Now that the Slicks are running well, I may not go back to the SureFly even if they get the bugs out. 

Skip

[Davidv]

20 hours ago, bmcconnaha said:

my point exactly.  certified products shouldnt leave the end user finishing their R&D.  been on the phone three times with lycoming engineering today, and mine isnt the only one they are having trouble with.  they dont know how to fix it or what the issue is, and frankly i am tired of trying their suggestions in a hangar that is 102 degrees inside.  I do also belive since they shipped it with the wrong revision software on the EIS in the first place, it was wrong of them to make me pay 1595 to get the new EIS shipped.  im still waiting for that refund. maybe the pacific northwest heat wave is making me extra grumpy LOL.

Also, good luck getting any of these companies to pay for your complete R&R when something goes wrong...never mind your personal time dealing with it.

[bmcconnaha]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

I think this may be referred to as… the class in aviation business school called BK101….  

Best regards,

-a-

I was thinking that, just didn’t want to say it, LOL.  

[bmcconnaha]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

You could just put the power conditioner on the power line to the EIS. I have a friend who installed a 28V surefly on his 201. He has had a bunch of problems like the OP has listed.   

Thought about that, but surefly wouldn’t give me the conditioner without their mag being on the plane. My IA also said we wouldn’t sign that off on the EIS, and lycoming told me not to on their EIS as well.   So, surefly it is.  At my own expense I might add.  

[Ragsf15e]

11 minutes ago, bmcconnaha said:

Thought about that, but surefly wouldn’t give me the conditioner without their mag being on the plane. My IA also said we wouldn’t sign that off on the EIS, and lycoming told me not to on their EIS as well.   So, surefly it is.  At my own expense I might add.  

Good luck.  Voice of optimism here, my SF is great!  However I’m a 14v system…

[PT20J]

4 hours ago, Davidv said:

Also, good luck getting any of these companies to pay for your complete R&R when something goes wrong...never mind your personal time dealing with it.

Ever look at the warranty on house paint? If it fails, they will replace the paint. But most of the cost was the labor. That's why I always buy the best paint I can get and ignore the useless warranty.

[Mark89114]

We need that guy on here who chimes in that PMA, TSO, STC, etc and so on actually mean something.

[Will.iam]

Wow I didn’t realize there was an issue with the 28v system. Is there any mooney owner here with the surefly on a 28v system that is not having the voltage spike issue and the surefly is running well?

[Niko182]

44 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Wow I didn’t realize there was an issue with the 28v system. Is there any mooney owner here with the surefly on a 28v system that is not having the voltage spike issue and the surefly is running well?

@kmyfm20s figured his issue out and pretty sure its working now.

[kmyfm20s]

On 7/2/2021 at 10:15 AM, Niko182 said:

@kmyfm20s figured his issue out and pretty sure its working now.

No problems after the power conditioner was installed. 

 

On 7/2/2021 at 9:27 AM, Will.iam said:

Wow I didn’t realize there was an issue with the 28v system. Is there any mooney owner here with the surefly on a 28v system that is not having the voltage spike issue and the surefly is running well?

 

[bmcconnaha]

update! third time is charm, just not a third time with the Lycoming EIS.  surefly on, PC17v surefly power conditioner on, ferry permit obtained, 400mi flight around the weather to get it to the Mooney service station in troutdale,OR and success.... she ran like a fine swiss watch.  

[carusoam]

Great follow-up bmc!

Best regards,

-a-

[Ragsf15e]

15 hours ago, bmcconnaha said:

update! third time is charm, just not a third time with the Lycoming EIS.  surefly on, PC17v surefly power conditioner on, ferry permit obtained, 400mi flight around the weather to get it to the Mooney service station in troutdale,OR and success.... she ran like a fine swiss watch.  

Glad the SF works for you!  Opens up the option of using advanced timing too (assuming you’re not TC).  It’s real nice LOP around 9-11,000’.

[bmcconnaha]

2 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Glad the SF works for you!  Opens up the option of using advanced timing too (assuming you’re not TC).  It’s real nice LOP around 9-11,000’.

might explore that option down the road when the factory warranty is up on my 390.  id be very open to throwing you my 'pro rata" share of gas money for a flight one day so i can see how the timing advance works for you....

[Ragsf15e]

2 minutes ago, bmcconnaha said:

might explore that option down the road when the factory warranty is up on my 390.  id be very open to throwing you my 'pro rata" share of gas money for a flight one day so i can see how the timing advance works for you....

Honestly not much to see. Just treat it like normal ROP or LOP ops.  Above about (very roughly) 5000’, timing advances slowly with altitude.  You might start to notice very slightly warmer chts.  In cruise, there’s not much difference in ROP with the timing advance, however, LOP works better to extract a little more power with the advance.  Chts are plenty cool either way, but I’m maybe about 3kts faster LOP now than before the SF.  Basically no change if running ROP.

[bmcconnaha]

4 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Honestly not much to see. Just treat it like normal ROP or LOP ops.  Above about (very roughly) 5000’, timing advances slowly with altitude.  You might start to notice very slightly warmer chts.  In cruise, there’s not much difference in ROP with the timing advance, however, LOP works better to extract a little more power with the advance.  Chts are plenty cool either way, but I’m maybe about 3kts faster LOP now than before the SF.  Basically no change if running ROP.

let me know if youre game for a passenger one day! 

[Ragsf15e]

Just now, bmcconnaha said:

let me know if youre game for a passenger one day! 

I am for sure!  Hit me up after school starts for the little kids in September… so much more time!

[bmcconnaha]

33 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I am for sure!  Hit me up after school starts for the little kids in September… so much more time!

will do!

[carusoam]

Rags,

I think you gave the first pirep with enough detail covering the variable timing… 

Thanks for sharing the details.

Best regards,

-a-

[FLYFST]

Anyone reporting problems with the Lycoming EIS on a14V system? If so, what kind of problems?

I am expecting delivery of a factory re-manufactured IO-360-A3B6 with one Slick Mag and one EIS, instead of the two Slick Mag configuration.  Reading about all the problems reported on the 28V installations, and particularly with the Lycoming EIS and software based approach to the voltage spikes has me increasingly concerned about my decision.  Thanks in advance for any thoughts and recommendations.

Hank

[Ragsf15e]

Just now, FLYFST said:

Anyone reporting problems with the Lycoming EIS on a14V system? If so, what kind of problems?

I am expecting delivery of a factory re-manufactured IO-360-A3B6 with one Slick Mag and one EIS, instead of the two Slick Mag configuration.  Reading about all the problems reported on the 28V installations, and particularly with the Lycoming EIS and software based approach to the voltage spikes has me increasingly concerned about my decision.  Thanks in advance for any thoughts and recommendations.

Hank

SF works great on 14v.  Does the lyc version do advance timing? I thought I heard they only do fixed.

Yeah if you’re a 14v, it should be fine.  Good luck!

[FLYFST]

Just now, Ragsf15e said:

SF works great on 14v.  Does the lyc version do advance timing? I thought I heard they only do fixed.

Yeah if you’re a 14v, it should be fine.  Good luck!

Thanks!  Reading about all the 28V installation problems has me quite concerned. The Lycoming EIS and Slick Mag configuration for A3B6 comes with fixed 20 deg BTDC timing, and advanced timing is not an option for the that EIS.

[amillet]

I had Surefly installed on 28V system during 2020 annual at Troutdale. First flight revealed major engine stumbling every few minutes. After consulting with manufacturer Greg made some adjustment to wiring and it has worked fine since.

[bmcconnaha]

7 hours ago, FLYFST said:

Thanks!  Reading about all the 28V installation problems has me quite concerned. The Lycoming EIS and Slick Mag configuration for A3B6 comes with fixed 20 deg BTDC timing, and advanced timing is not an option for the that EIS.

The last EIS (second one i tried)  had random misfires on cyl 3, not related to the voltage.  lycoming has something messed up with thier software, and was not sure of what to do to fix the issue.  my gut feeling after all this mess, and over 5k in troubleshooting (so far my expense) is to just do the surefly on the one side and call it a day.  also keeps your options open down the road for timing advance if you decide to do that

[Ragsf15e]

27 minutes ago, bmcconnaha said:

The last EIS (second one i tried)  had random misfires on cyl 3, not related to the voltage.  lycoming has something messed up with thier software, and was not sure of what to do to fix the issue.  my gut feeling after all this mess, and over 5k in troubleshooting (so far my expense) is to just do the surefly on the one side and call it a day.  also keeps your options open down the road for timing advance if you decide to do that

I really like the timing advance on mine.  It’s not a huge difference, but I get a little more power out of it LOP at higher cruise altitude.  The 14v SF seems to work fine, but I’m not sure I’d do the lyc branded due to fixed time and possible issues?