FAA and non-aviation hangar use

[bd32322]

Hi guys - running into some trouble from the local airport about keeping motorcycles along with my plane in the T-hangar. Airport manager says it is non-aviation use of the hangar - and that the FAA has such a rule.

I can understand it being a problem, if I ran a donut shop from my hangar - but thats not the case here. So my question - is there really such a FAA rule?

Thanks in advance

[201er]

Dunno, but I know plenty of guys who practically live out of their hangar.

[jwilkins]

The airport where I was previously based (KSDC) was a privately owned public use airport. The flying club owns the airport. The year I was the president of the flying club we had some questions about people leasing hangers to keep collector cars and household goods. I never saw any FAA regulations about mixed use, but the flying club DID have a paragraph in the lease stating something  like 'the primary use of the hanger is for aircraft storage'. Which paragraph we did not enforce.

I suspect that the airport manager is using the 'FAA won't allow it' as a justification, perhaps not a fact. If they told you 'our insurance company won't allow it I'd tend to take it with more credence. If they said 'We (the airport) won't allow it and it is in your lease' then I'd just move the motorcycle.

I'd suggest you read your lease completely. If you really want confirmation from the FAA call your local FSDO. The local guys are usually pretty helpful, despite all the standard jokes about the FAA.

Really though, it comes down to trying to work through this nicely with your airport manager. You could ask for the FAA guidance 'in order to see if you can comply and still use the hanger'. You really don't want to get in a fight with your airport manager. Is there another pilot who is on really good terms that can help you discuss this?

I see you are in MA. Where are you based? I used to fly in LWM monthly and really liked Four Star Aviation. A long time ago I flew ocassionaly into BED but it got to the point where I felt my old Mooney was not a preferred transient for the airport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shadrach]

I just got the same letter in regard to my old Triumph motorcycle which I use as an airport runabout. I have seen loads of bicycles, mopeds, scooters etc on the field, but apparently, motorcycles get in their craw. I plan on removing my bike ahead of the next inspection and replacing it after.  I know better than to try and reason with them.

 

I think that your AP manager is full of it.  LA county Airport markets directly to the public for non-aviation use.  Moreover, if there is a plane in your hangar, the hangar is being used for aviation... It's this kind of crap that irritates me to no end. There is no intelligent reason on earth that a 2 wheeled vehicle should be regulated out of a hangar with an airplane in it.  If you're using your hangar to store nothing but motorcycles, that's a different story.

Local busy bodies with nothing better to do but make life a pain in the ass...

[rob]

None of the FAA regulations are kept in secret. Ask the manager to provide the reference regulation.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: bd32322

I can understand it being a problem, if I ran a donut shop from my hangar - but thats not the case here. So my question - is there really such a FAA rule? 

 

The FAA could care less about what you keep in a hanger and I'd bet my mortgage there's no rule that expressly limits hanger usage to aircraft only. 

If you want to make an issue out of it, politely ask your airport manager to show you the "FAA rule" after you thoroughly review your lease.   I can tell you he won't be able to produce anything from the FAA and if your lease doesn't expressly forbid the storage of non aviation vehicles or motorcycles then, as a tenant in good standing you have the expressed rights of usage. 

[jwilkins]

The airport where I was previously based (KSDC) was a privately owned public use airport. The flying club owns the airport. The year I was the president of the flying club we had some questions about people leasing hangers to keep collector cars and household goods. I never saw any FAA regulations about mixed use, but the flying club DID have a paragraph in the lease stating something  like 'the primary use of the hanger is for aircraft storage'. Which paragraph we did not enforce.

I suspect that the airport manager is using the 'FAA won't allow it' as a justification, perhaps not a fact. If they told you 'our insurance company won't allow' it I'd tend to take it with more credence. If they said 'We (the airport) won't allow it,  and it is in your lease' then I'd just move the motorcycle.

I'd suggest you read your lease completely. If you really want confirmation from the FAA call your local FSDO. The local guys are usually pretty helpful, despite all the standard jokes about the FAA.

Really though, it comes down to trying to work through this nicely with your airport manager. You could ask for the FAA guidance 'in order to see if you can comply and still use the hanger'. You really don't want to get in a fight with your airport manager. Is there another pilot who is on really good terms that can help you discuss this?

I see you are in MA. Where are you based? I used to fly in LWM monthly and really liked Four Star Aviation. A long time ago I flew ocassionaly into BED but it got to the point where I felt my old Mooney was not a preferred transient for the airport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KSMooniac]

I believe there are actually some limitations that arise from the various AIP (Airport Improvement Program or Fund) grants that come from the gov't/FAA that are used for airport improvements, which frequently include hangars that are rented out by the airport authority.  Typically, the "strings" that are attached to AIP money will limit the use so that it is indeed aviation-related.

That aside, if you are renting a hangar and have an airworthy plane inside it, I've *never* heard of anyone getting hassled about having additional things inside the hangar.  On a $/sq. ft. basis, T-hangars are typically much cheaper than a commercial storage unit, so some folks will try to keep boats, classic cars, or junk in there instead of planes.  From the FAA's viewpoint, that is not what they want since those tenants will not be purchasing fuel or FBO services from the airport (or businesses leasing space on the field) and thus they should not be allowed in gov't funded hangars.  

I agree that you should read your lease cafefully before going to battle, because you don't want to make enemies that control things that could make your life miserable.  It could very well be an insurance deal, but I doubt it.  At the end of the day, I am pretty sure if you have an airworthy plane in the hangar then you're fine in the eyes of the FAA.

[Steve65E-NC]

I bet.  Some piss ant was using a hanger exclusively for his antique car collection.  The air port manager called him on it.  Since the best defense is a good offense, above referenced PA responded 'well bd keeps his motorcycles in his' - and off we go.  I don't think the significant subsidies of public money for airports are planned around cheap non-aviation storage.  I think some hangers at my local are used for exclusively for non-aviation storage, and I do not think it is right.  On the other hand I think it is in the public interest to encourage pilots to spend time at the airport and be personally interested in the airport's welfare, if they do personal wood work in one corner, so what.  

[rob]

There are lots of hangars without airworthy airplanes in them, but instead an experimental (or two or three) that are in some unknown state of being built. Most of these will never fly or even taxi, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

[rbridges]

We're supposed to have an airworthy plane in our hangar--mainly to have customers to buy fuel.  Otherwise, they don't really care.  I know one guy keeps a boat next to his plane.  I've also seen golf carts, four wheelers, etc. 

[jlunseth]

I ran on search on my electronic FAR/AIM and found no such regulation.  However, there are ways that restrictions can becomed something like an "FAA regulation."  When an airport is built or improved, FAA approval may be required and all kinds of things can be written into the approval.  I agree with the suggestion that you ask the manager for a reference to the reg., and then you should look it up and see what it says.  It has been my experience that airport managers and municipalities do in fact intentionally misrepresent the content of the rules applying to their facilities in an effort to control conduct they have no right or authority to control. 

[John Pleisse]

There is no FAA reg, I'd bet all the tea in China. Certainly not enforceable.

An airport in Maryland had a large hangar fire in 1999-2000 ( 5  T-hangars). Several AC's were lost including a 700 hour 87 252 and Commanche 260, fully restored and just off a photo shoot for the cover of AOPA. In one of the 5 hangars, a local A&P was using a generator to operate a makeshift shop. He did good work and was a well liked guy. Sadly though, the hangar next to him had over 2 tons of paper documents stored from a professional office (in addition to the owner's aircraft). The A&P's generator caught fire and you guessed it, all five hangars went up.

Point being, where does a municipality or state run airport draw the line? Frankly, at my home base, I see some hangars that look like an episode of Hoarders. This certainly doesn't enhance safety. I will say, there is a tremendous hangar shortage for many people who have airworthy aircraft and want a hangar....this is a certainty.

Read your lease first.

[aerobat95]

It annoys me to no end that people here use the hangars for non aviation....especially since there are people with AIRPLANES on waiting lists.  I had wanted a larger hangar but there are none available here....I have people all around me that have hangas (larger) with nothing but junk in them.  One of them looks like something out of American Pickers.  My guess is that out here they don't care cause rent is rent.  It does make me nervous though cause some of them to me look like a fire hazard (no expert there but common sense says so). Anyway enough of me ranting.......Good luck. 

[FlyDave]

I live in Los Angeles County, you know, the state of California....where they tax authority is called the "Board of Equilization".

Many of our airports in LA County are run by a company called American Airports..Not the worst AP management company out there, but certainly not the best! They provide airport management as a service to LA County. LA County owns the airport and I believe they are ultimately responsible for what their sub-contractor does.

We have a 5-8% vacancy rate at El Monte and American Airports openly rents (and charges an additional fee) to non-aircraft owner tennants . American Airports claims that if they get to 100% capacity and an airplane owner wants to rent a hangar they will kick a non-aviation tennent out. We have everything from families that are in transition from one residence to another, to an ex US Senator that runs an automobile engine shop out of a hangar. So I belive American Airports and Los Angeles County would be compliant if there were such an FAA reg.

I'd ask the AP manager for his statement in writing and go from there. I'll bet he WINCO (WIll Not COmply).

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: aerobat95

It annoys me to no end that people here use the hangars for non aviation....especially since there are people with AIRPLANES on waiting lists.  I had wanted a larger hangar but there are none available here....I have people all around me that have hangas (larger) with nothing but junk in them.  One of them looks like something out of American Pickers.  My guess is that out here they don't care cause rent is rent.  It does make me nervous though cause some of them to me look like a fire hazard (no expert there but common sense says so). Anyway enough of me ranting.......Good luck. 

[bd32322]

Thanks guys for the tips! I feel better already. I'll check with the FSDO and the airport manager. This just came at a bad time - normally I have my bikes at my apartment - I am just storing them over the winter to protect them from the snow. If I cannot keep them in the hangar there, it will mean 3 one-hour one way trips to get 3 bikes out in freezing weather.

And this was after I was told it would be okay to keep them there. I specifically asked since the lease was vague and now they change their tune. I should have had it in writing - doh ! This is in KORH btw.

[moodychief]

Here is a good starting place.  http://www.faa.gov/airports/central/aip/revenue_producers/index.cfm?print=go#hangars

This rule is tied in with the airport's grant assurances for federal funding of projects.

[Becca]

Quote: bd32322

Hi guys - running into some trouble from the local airport about keeping motorcycles along with my plane in the T-hangar. Airport manager says it is non-aviation use of the hangar - and that the FAA has such a rule.

I can understand it being a problem, if I ran a donut shop from my hangar - but thats not the case here. So my question - is there really such a FAA rule?

Thanks in advance

[scottfromiowa]

Offer to remove fuel from tank.  What is the exposure?  As long as it recides within your space.  Provide a certificate of insurance for the vehicle.  Ask if you need additional liability for the storage and offer to provide.  I too would have a problem with the storage of general combustibles (paper, cardboard boxes etc.) due to increased fire load and suseptability.  I would also NOT like having an A&P with welding, storage of fuel gas and oxidizers as well as paint, solvents, grinding in same building as my "storage hanger" for my aircraft.  Storing a motorcycle in space you rent and also use PRIMARILY for the storage of your aircraft should NOT be a problem.

[Shadrach]

I have a tug with gas in the tank... How does that differ from my motorcycle?

[stevesm20b]

There is no FAA reg reguarding non-aviation hanger use at an airport. Victorville airport (VCV) in southern California has rented out space on the airport to trucking firms to pool table manufactures even a church. When I lived in Nevada I lived on an airport in a hanger home. I know a number of people that built hangers at airports for there airplanes, then lost their medical and no longer fly. So, they use their hanger to store personal property. How is an airplane full of fuel any less dangerous than any other vehicle that has fuel?     

[triple8s]

If I were to be told that I swear I believe I would make a small set of tail feathers and attach to the back of the bike and tell that PR _ _K it was an experiment flying machine.

[PTK]

Find a local welder and rig-up a tow bar of some sort that attaches to the Mooney and to your bike. Use the bike to tow the plane. This way you have an aviation NEED for the bike to be in the hangar! Save considerable money too. I plan to do exactly this with my bike if and when I get a private hangar. Very scarce up here in the NE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[docket]

At my airport which is KHOU the lease has a covenant against storage of any motor vehicles unless they are associated with aircraft movement.  Vehicles can be kept in the hangar only when the airplane is out and only on a temporary basis.  I assume that the lease covenant was required because there was no other FAA restriction that was self-evident.  With that said, the irony is not lost on me that my hangar has a garage door for vehicle entry.  You can see the door in the back of the picture.  It sure makes it easy to keep a car there