M20C has icing emergency

[201er]

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I’ve had that happen a couple of times. He sounds like he was really shaken. It can get your attention. I’m glad his carb heat was working. Some don’t....

Arizona isn’t always hot...

[ilovecornfields]

Thanks for sharing. That certainly seemed to have ruffled his feathers. Nice to see a happy ending to an icing incident. Wonder what the weather looked like prior to departure?

Controllers did an awesome job. Hope he bought them some beers after that.

[carusoam]

Take a good look at the wing pic (tail plane) before watching the video...

This pic goes away, and is hard to ever see again...

 

If this wing is related to the story... it might be ice covering the intake filter more than carb ice...

With carb ice, you have the option to use carb heat...

With filter ice on an M20C... you find warmer air...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[David Lloyd]

If that is indeed a picture of the wing of that particular airplane, it would explain much.  No laminar flow there!.  Almost anything much more than a trace of ice showing on a Mooney wing will also cover the air filter on the early models requiring use of carb heat or alternate air.  Unlike carb ice, carb heat will not make ice over the filter go away.  Any flight into clouds, expect carb ice in a C, D or G model.  Then you can smile when it doesn't happen.  And you E and F guys, don't use ram air when ice is possible. Air flow pickups in the fuel injector will get some ice build up and the engine will not run properly.

[201er]

He said things were running rough. Could have also been propeller ice.

[Ibra]

Maybe depends on type but one would rarely get carburator ice in airframe icing conditions? my impression if entering clouds bellow freezing level in high power settings and airframe ice take place, then any rough running is probably 1/ propeller (you move blue handle to break it by changing RPM, the joke if one doing hard they spills some hot engine/spinner oil to get hot prop & windshield heater), 2/ frozen air intakes (open alternate air if you have it), 3/ about to get frozen fuel servos (usually in deep low temps) 

Carb ice on cruise power happens usually at higher temps, from -2C to 20C, but it could get very serious way bellow that at low power settings & descents, airframe ice is serious in -15C to -1C OAT range

Unless one is flying in -3C to 0C it’s highly unlikely to get both? probably, never as a faster M20C has extra +3C TAT/OAT difference from it’s hot airframe 

Glad the pilot manage it, well done !

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Ibra

[exM20K]

Sounds more like the air filter and, if pics are of the incident plane, airframe ice to me, too.

Do C models typically have heated pitot tubes?

glad it worked out.  Flying an iced up plane in IMC to land in the snow with two other passengers and a lot of fuel on board doesn’t sound like fun.

-dan

[David Lloyd]

I've had two C's, ridden in two E's, three F's.  All had pitot heat.  One of the E's even had a heated stall warning switch.  

[A64Pilot]

Didn't watch much, my guess would be carb ice, and he hadn’t experienced it before.

Couple of questions though, a comment on some carb heat doesn’t work? How? it’s checked on every run up isn’t it? likelihood of it failing after take off is low, but could happen  I guess.

‘My C-85 is a real ice machine, I’ve learned to leave it on for 30 sec or so on run up just prior to take off cause it can ice on taxi.

Second was air filter icing, carb heat bypasses the air filter, in fact on short final I go carb heat off, because I don’t want unfiltered air going into my engine on the ground.

If you fly an airplane that is bad about carb ice (any little Continental) you get used to it, recognize it and pull carb heat on habit.

At cruise power, it will work, it may not at very low power though, pulling it on, on final if you have been conducting a gliding approach it may not work, the reason is the exhaust may have cooled too much.

 

‘Isn’t a heated pitot a requirement for IFR? 

Edited April 17, 2021 by A64Pilot

[DXB]

Don't know if that picture of a wind on the ground is actually his, but when he declares at 11,000ft in IMC, the weather at the airport where he is diverting (~5000 ELE) is at 2 degrees C with light snow.  Seems logical that he had to pass through a freezing level containing precip to divert, even if he was not in structural icing conditions at 11,000 (no way to know as far as I can tell).  But I would have suspected it would be too cold at 11,000 for carb ice, assuming carb heat was off completely. Induction icing is an interesting thought.  They would present similarly with decreasing MP and roughness. I would think turning on carb heat would make the roughness better immediately for induction ice but temporarily worse for carb ice.

When I redid the panel of my C, I had the pitot heat switch moved away from the other switches and grouped with the carb heat, and I put a black cover on the pitot heat switch to match the color of the carb heat control. That forces me to think about them together, and I use them both liberally, aided by a carb temp gauge.  

Edited April 17, 2021 by DXB

[N201MKTurbo]

I have had as much ice on a Mooney wing as the picture on the video. It will fly fine with that much, but I wouldn't go beyond that....

Back in the day, when it was legaler to fly in icing, (it wasn't known icing until there was a pirep. somebody had to be first). My procedure was if the stall strip disappeared I had better be well into plan B. 

You can say they changed the interpretation of the rules because of people like me, but it wasn't me it was the people without a plan B.

Edited April 17, 2021 by N201MKTurbo

[MB65E]

I’ve installed a vertical piece (6in or so) of black electrical tape on the wing to act as an indicator in the past.  You really can’t see the ice if the wing is white. I think I learned that from someone on this site. Thought it would be worth mentioning again. 

-Matt

[David Lloyd]

I had a Bonanza painted with some color on the wing so ice could easily be seen at night.  Of course, that was back when I was younger and....uh, uh, nevermind.

[A64Pilot]

I’ve only really gotten into real ice accumulation once in an airplane, freezing rain, in a C-210 on approach, and what worried me was I couldn’t see through the windshield. I was going to open the window and stick my head out some, but the freezing rain turned into liquid rain and it was gone quickly, but when it was freezing, it was accumulating fast.

‘So what do you do on a low wing airplane with an iced up windshield? Honest question

Edited April 17, 2021 by A64Pilot

[Hank]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

‘So what do you do on a low wing airplane with an iced up windshield? Honest question

Turn on the defrost (pull Cabin Heat knob all the way out, lean down and twist the valve above my right knee to divert heat to windshield; if I have someone with me, they can turn the valve above their left knee). Just don't leave it too long without mixing in some Cabin Vent, or you'll soften the windshield.

If that's not enough, look out the side windows and keep the glideslope centered and your fingers crossed . . . . .

[Ibra]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

‘So what do you do on a low wing airplane with an iced up windshield? Honest question

Yes windshield visibility is the elephant in the room when landing with ice, usually faster speed & clean config as slow & flap is not ice compliant: airframe is better controllable above it’s min drag speed/config, if one adds extra adrenaline from the situation, then forward visibility becomes important for the landing, one definitely need clean windshield coming +100kts over threshold

I did fly through freezing layers on approach in Arrow & Mooney, 20kts extra speed in clean config in Mooney does make a hell of a ride over the runway all the way near the other end, at least I had an HD view that goes with it...

Judging height during flare can be done with glance from open storm window, but turn ON defrost does clear bits on base of windshield for forward visibility, that could be enough if one uses instruments and can see runway marks/lights?

Edited April 17, 2021 by Ibra

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I’ve only really gotten into real ice accumulation once in an airplane, freezing rain, in a C-210 on approach, and what worried me was I couldn’t see through the windshield. I was going to open the window and stick my head out some, but the freezing rain turned into liquid rain and it was gone quickly, but when it was freezing, it was accumulating fast.

‘So what do you do on a low wing airplane with an iced up windshield? Honest question

I have landed with my only visibility is out the storm window. A little pucker, but it can be done. That’s why that window is there. I have also taken a credit card out of my wallet and stuck my arm out the storm window and scraped the ice off the minnow while flying. My defroster would only melt about a 1 inch stripe along the bottom of the window. That is better than nothing.

[gsxrpilot]

My experience with an M20C was that Carb ice really wasn't a thing. It did happen once for me, 12,000 ft. IMC, lots of summertime moisture, roughly 50° F. It didn't last long and a touch of carb heat and it cleared right up. I flew many hours in IMC and that was the one and only time I had carb ice.

I've picked up a little rime ice, twice in my K. Both were short events as I was able to quickly get out of the icing conditions. It never effected the windshield or vision. 

[Ibra]

16 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Back in the day, when it was legaler to fly in icing, (it wasn't known icing until there was a pirep. somebody had to be first)

What is situation in US for Part91, you need a certified FIKI to legally depart on IFR if during planning you get icing pirep or forecast predicts IMC bellow freezing level at your planned level? or you can’t enter clouds bellow zero during flying? or you can’t  continue normal flying if you start collecting actual ice? 

[bradp]

Sounds like the pilot got a little helmet fire once the emergency was over.  He kept trying to take the bait of “ground contact” when in IMC. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Ibra said:

What is situation in US for Part91, you need a certified FIKI to legally depart on IFR if during planning you get icing pirep or forecast predicts IMC bellow freezing level at your planned level? or you can’t enter clouds bellow zero during flying? or you can’t  continue normal flying if you start collecting actual ice? 

The current interpretation of the regulation prohibits flight for a non-FIKI airplane if there is forecast icing. 

[exM20K]

20 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

 

‘Isn’t a heated pitot a requirement for IFR? 

 Not for Part 91.  I don’t believe my first plane, a 1973 Cherokee had pitot heat. @Oscar Avalledo you remember?

that plane has since seen plenty of IFR training use at a flight school.

[RJBrown]

This is why I would not make that flight in a non turbo Mooney. 
While flying my 231/Rocket any hint of ice was followed by a request to climb. When your only escape from ice is down your options get very limited in the mountains. 
Failure to launch into clouds I could have avoided completely in the Rocket is why I sold the MSE. 
If I could not get well above the icing levels or stay clear of clouds it was no launch for the J.
Below 17,000 can be a scary place where above 24,000 is clear and beautiful. 

[aviatoreb]

12 minutes ago, RJBrown said:

This is why I would not make that flight in a non turbo Mooney. 
While flying my 231/Rocket any hint of ice was followed by a request to climb. When your only escape from ice is down your options get very limited in the mountains. 
Failure to launch into clouds I could have avoided completely in the Rocket is why I sold the MSE. 
If I could not get well above the icing levels or stay clear of clouds it was no launch for the J.
Below 17,000 can be a scary place where above 24,000 is clear and beautiful. 

Living where I live near the Great Lakes, ice is always a worry even when there is no ice forecast.  I only fly when no ice is forecast since after all these are small airplanes, but nonetheless I have encountered un forecast ice more than once.  In my previous airplane I decided I need to change airplanes.  Shopping for something with tks I decided that turbo must be part of the anti-ice package - the power to climb out of ice now, with authority and quickly.