G3X / G5 / GFC 500 / GTN 650 Installation time

[PT20J]

I'm  getting quotes for installing this equipment and I'm curious how many hours others might have been charged for a similar installation. I'm interested in shop time rather than total cost because equipment pricing and shop rates vary.  I realize every airplane is a bit different, but I'm just trying to get a feeling of a reasonable range of installation time.

Skip

[Ragsf15e]

Just to keep it the same as others... are you doing a new panel cutout as well or cutting up your current one?

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

Just to keep it the same as others... are you doing a new panel cutout as well or cutting up your current one?

It’ll be a new panel.

[ArtVandelay]

180 hours.

[carusoam]

Skip,

Have a look at aerodon’s pics...

He has a few Mooney instrument panel sheet metal pieces that may be of interest for ideas...

Don has some interesting sheet metal skills...

-a-

 

[211º]

I’m spit balling to try to understand the hours.

 

Remove existing equipment and trays. Assume 4 item to remove - complete in 1 day = 8 hours

 

Label each wire connection while removing - another 4 hours

 

Trace and diagram wiring of existing remaining equipment and sketch connections and interface to new equipment - two half days = 8 hours

 

Clean up existing wires and install new connectors 4 hours for each = 16 hours

 

On a bench, wire up each new unit to a new connector with the right amount of wire for airplane installation. 1 day for each unit = 8 hours (this number seems fat) = 32 hours.

 

Install new trays 8 hours total

 

Install new panel boards = 6 hrs total for 2 of them (fabrication is a delivered cost)

 

Install new equipment and connect wiring 4 hr each = 16 hrs

 

Test two days 4 hrs each day = 8 hrs

 

I get 106 hrs x $90/hr = $10,000-ish

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ArtVandelay]

I’m spit balling to try to understand the hours.
 
Remove existing equipment and trays. Assume 4 item to remove - complete in 1 day = 8 hours
 
Label each wire connection while removing - another 4 hours
 
Trace and diagram wiring of existing remaining equipment and sketch connections and interface to new equipment - two half days = 8 hours
 
Clean up existing wires and install new connectors 4 hours for each = 16 hours
 
On a bench, wire up each new unit to a new connector with the right amount of wire for airplane installation. 1 day for each unit = 8 hours (this number seems fat) = 32 hours.
 
Install new trays 8 hours total
 
Install new panel boards = 6 hrs total for 2 of them (fabrication is a delivered cost)
 
Install new equipment and connect wiring 4 hr each = 16 hrs
 
Test two days 4 hrs each day = 8 hrs
 
I get 106 hrs x $90/hr = $10,000-ish
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

You forgot the time required to remove interior, antenna installation, and servo installation is rather labor intensive since it is different for every plane.

[PT20J]

I decided that I only want to tear the airplane apart once while I own it, so I’m getting quotes to tear everything out except the GTX 345 and install a G3X, G5, GFC 500, GTN 650Xi, GNC 255A, GMA 345, and CiES fuel senders and a Guardian CO detector to fill the hole in the console where EDM 700 was installed. Includes new powder coated panels with silkscreened legends and placards. Installation quotes are running north of 250 hrs.

Skip

[mhrivnak]

In February I had similar stuff installed in my J. I had already installed a JPI EDM 900 and removed an ADF and strikefinder myself, meticulously removing old wiring (including some archaeology of wiring and other stuff left behind from equipment long-gone). That probably reduced some of their work.

150 hours for: "Labor to remove existing systems and install new G3X with G5 backup. Remove GNS 430W and Install GNC 255. Remove intercom and audio panel and install GMA 345. Remove autopilot system and install new GFC 500."

That includes removing the whole vacuum system and creating a new panel. They did not have to install or remove any antennas thankfully.

[Niko182]

On 4/12/2021 at 10:48 PM, ArtVandelay said:

You forgot the time required to remove interior, antenna installation, and servo installation is rather labor intensive since it is different for every plane.

and a project like this will most likely use new wiring as well. Thats adds some time too.. Once you actually see behind the panel, it makes sense why it takes so long. And testing takes time. Mistakes are made throughout the process.

Also the roll servo on the wing is supposed to be an absolute bitch to take out and install. The autopilot alone takes like 60 to 80 hours to install alone. A project like this should be around 200 hours +- 10%, so what @ArtVandelay stated isn't far off.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Niko182

[PilotX]

Don't forget some time to remove wiring for the old stuff. I have a box with at least 20 lbs of old wire, not including the 40lbs of 1990s electronics. I removed my own interior and have been using the bench time to rehab things that haven't been touched in some time. They told me 120 hours for the GFC500, given the progress the tech has made thus far.

[Francesco]

I don't know if it is the right place, but I have a question about the JPI EDM 900.. Does anybody tried to download data with the USB drive ? I got the message DOWNLOAD UNAVAILABLE. 

[Skates97]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:49 PM, Niko182 said:

and a project like this will most likely use new wiring as well. Thats adds some time too.. Once you actually see behind the panel, it makes sense why it takes so long. And testing takes time. Mistakes are made throughout the process.

Also the roll servo on the wing is supposed to be an absolute bitch to take out and install. The autopilot alone takes like 60 to 80 hours to install alone. A project like this should be around 200 hours +- 10%, so what @ArtVandelay stated isn't far off.

The quote to put the GFC500 in my plane is 60 hours of labor. It already has G5's and there is no current AP to remove so 60-80 if there is an old AP to pull out would line up with what I saw.

[gsxrpilot]

43 minutes ago, Francesco said:

I don't know if it is the right place, but I have a question about the JPI EDM 900.. Does anybody tried to download data with the USB drive ? I got the message DOWNLOAD UNAVAILABLE. 

You might start a new thread on this issue. But I have an EDM-900 and download to USB all the time.

[Tom 4536]

1 hour ago, Francesco said:

I don't know if it is the right place, but I have a question about the JPI EDM 900.. Does anybody tried to download data with the USB drive ? I got the message DOWNLOAD UNAVAILABLE. 

Are you using the memory stick that came with the 930?

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

The quote to put the GFC500 in my plane is 60 hours of labor. It already has G5's and there is no current AP to remove so 60-80 if there is an old AP to pull out would line up with what I saw.

Are you doing a 2, 3, or 4 servo setup? Regardless which one you pick, you'll love that autopilot.

[ArtVandelay]

I don't know if it is the right place, but I have a question about the JPI EDM 900.. Does anybody tried to download data with the USB drive ? I got the message DOWNLOAD UNAVAILABLE. 

Do it all the time, did you select new or all? Try new. USB stick needs to be 32MB or less I think.

[gsxrpilot]

35 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Do it all the time, did you select new or all? Try new. USB stick needs to be 32MB or less I think.

I'm using an 8GB stick. I also select "new" when prompted.

[Davidv]

On 4/13/2021 at 3:13 PM, PT20J said:

I decided that I only want to tear the airplane apart once while I own it, so I’m getting quotes to tear everything out except the GTX 345 and install a G3X, G5, GFC 500, GTN 650Xi, GNC 255A, GMA 345, and CiES fuel senders and a Guardian CO detector to fill the hole in the console where EDM 700 was installed. Includes new powder coated panels with silkscreened legends and placards. Installation quotes are running north of 250 hrs.

Skip

If you're OK with traveling, call Scotty Collins at Precision Avionics in Griffin, GA.  They did my entire panel (2X G3X, GFC500, GNX375, GNC225, GTR225, PMA450B, G5, GDL52R) for substantially less hours than that and did a good job too.  On a side note, I'd highly recommend getting the GDL52R if you have any interest in satellite weather or music whatsoever.  You can only get this with the G3X and it's about $800 vs. $4K for the GDL69 which goes with the other Garmin equipment and has the same exact functionality. 

[Skates97]

3 hours ago, Niko182 said:

Are you doing a 2, 3, or 4 servo setup? Regardless which one you pick, you'll love that autopilot.

2 servo plus pitch trim, I didn't see the need for the yaw damper in a short body.

38 minutes ago, Davidv said:

If you're OK with traveling, call Scotty Collins at Precision Avionics in Griffin, GA.  They did my entire panel (2X G3X, GFC500, GNX375, GNC225, GTR225, PMA450B, G5, GDL52R) for substantially less hours than that and did a good job too.  On a side note, I'd highly recommend getting the GDL52R if you have any interest in satellite weather or music whatsoever.  You can only get this with the G3X and it's about $800 vs. $4K for the GDL69 which goes with the other Garmin equipment and has the same exact functionality. 

The PMA450B is an incredible audio panel, I love having it in the plane. I discovered a new feature (I should probably read more of the manual) a couple weeks ago when we were flying to Santa Barbara. You can answer and end calls with the soft buttons on the audio panel and it will show the phone number the call is coming from. We were about 5 miles out on a base leg and had been cleared to land. I didn't know my phone had connected via Bluetooth. The phone rings in the headset and the phone number from the call pops up on the screen on the PMA450B. I recognized my son's number but didn't have time so just hit the bottom soft button on the panel to end the call. He called right back so I pressed the top button on the audio panel to answer the call, said "I can't talk, landing in a couple minutes" and pressed the bottom button to end the call. 

[c1tice]

I had 2 GI-275, GTN-750xti, transponder and audio panel installed, got rid of the vacuum pump, weather radar and King state of the art 1981 avionics after the vacuum pump failure.  I love it. I probably should not do this but I have attached the bill. Took six weeks. After 4 months no buyers remorse. $50,000 for the job.

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, c1tice said:

I had 2 GI-275, GTN-750xti, transponder and audio panel installed, got rid of the vacuum pump, weather radar and King state of the art 1981 avionics after the vacuum pump failure.  I love it. I probably should not do this but I have attached the bill. Took six weeks. After 4 months no buyers remorse. $50,000 for the job.

Thanks for posting the invoice. It looks like the installation took 162 hours which sounds entirely reasonable. 

Skip

[PT20J]

I had four well-known NW area avionics shops quote ripping everything out except the GTX 345 and installing a G3X with external antenna, G5, GMA 345, GTN 650Xi, GNC 255A, GFC 500, CiES fuel senders and new panels. Labor estimates had a wide range: 120 hrs., 260 hrs., 300 hrs., and  395 hrs. The 260 hr. quote was from Crown Aviation that installed my GTX 345 and I know the quality of their work to be excellent and the owner to be reputable and fair, so I'm having them do the two-month job starting next month.

Skip

Edit: G3X Touch includes EIS, but I'm keeping the old CHT, EGT and fuel flow senders as they were replaced with the new engine 250 hours ago.

[FlyinAggie14]

I did this almost exact thing in my F recently.  The only thing that was kept was the GTX345.  The actual work came in at 300 hours and the whole plane was pretty much re-wired.  I chose to go with the JPI900 and CiES senders.  I also showed the state of my panel just prior to the work (JPI830 was upgraded to the 900).  Like others have said the three axis GFC500 (Trim, Pitch Roll) came in at 57 hours alone.  Cincinnati Avionics did my panel an it took just over 9 weeks to complete. 

Edit: Seeing your above edit about the EIS sensors and fuel senders already being installed it looks like about 40-50 hours were utilized for sensor and sender install/calibration and such.  So the rest of the work was 250 hours. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by FlyinAggie14

[RobertGary1]

I’d be happy for any quote was under 200 hours. We all know these jobs never go as expected especially for these older planes. Whatever they quote they’ll probably spend 20% over that.