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So Long, Farewell, Auf Weidersehen, Goodbye

Bob - S50

By Bob - S50
in General Mooney Talk

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Bob - S50 Grand Master

Bob - S50

Posted
Posted

I've enjoyed being here and I've learned a lot.  But next week my new partners and I will be picking up our new to us Cirrus SR22.  One of our other partners will be buying us out of the Mooney and moving it to S43 (Harvey Field) just east of Everett, WA.  One share still for sale, by the way, for $37,000.

I've loved the M20J but I will also enjoy the added safety of a parachute (especially for my non-pilot wife) and a little bit more speed, even though it will be less efficient.

Take care, be safe, have fun.

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carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

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Posted

Ughhhhh!

Shooot!

Hey wait....  before you go...

It has been proven...

We can get the pilot out of the Mooney....

But the Mooney, never comes completely out of the pilot...

 

You are always welcome to hang out here...

So it’s not really good bye.... it’s more see you later, alligator...

:)

Best regards,

-a-

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StevenL757 Grand Master

StevenL757

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9 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

I've enjoyed being here and I've learned a lot.  But next week my new partners and I will be picking up our new to us Cirrus SR22.  One of our other partners will be buying us out of the Mooney and moving it to S43 (Harvey Field) just east of Everett, WA.  One share still for sale, by the way, for $37,000.

I've loved the M20J but I will also enjoy the added safety of a parachute (especially for my non-pilot wife) and a little bit more speed, even though it will be less efficient.

Take care, be safe, have fun.

C'mon Bob...between George Perry and you, I feel like the airline guys are caving in to the dark side.  :-(

I won't give in however...I won't, I won't, I won't!!!   :-)

Seriously, congrats, and enjoy the Cirrus.  And when I get back to KPLU (Dad lives just off Canyon Road, a bit West of there), would love to meet up and see the new bird.

Until then...

Steve

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RobertGary1 Grand Master

RobertGary1

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4 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Did you get a FIKI Cirrus?  Because that might be worth being seen in a plastic airplane, especially in the Northwest!

I still worry about that fiki Cirrus that iced up and went down out of Reno years ago. Did they ever figure out the issue with the ki ?

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Ragsf15e Grand Master

Ragsf15e

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I still worry about that fiki Cirrus that iced up and went down out of Reno years ago. Did they ever figure out the issue with the ki ?

I read the accident report on that a while back.  Iirc, they didn’t even think he turned it on.  Also didn’t attempt to exit icing conditions until too late.  I also think it was an inadvertent system instead of fiki, although they are almost exactly the same.  Pulled the chute way past the maximum speed and ripped it off.
 

 I think forecast ice at my cruising altitude at night might be past my comfort level in a small airplane, fiki or not.  Here in Spokane, there’s often a 1000’ thick layer above 500agl that just refuses to burn off in the winter.  Above that it’s beautiful.  Fiki is really nice for that!

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Bob - S50 Grand Master

Bob - S50

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12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Did you get a FIKI Cirrus?  Because that might be worth being seen in a plastic airplane, especially in the Northwest!

No.  That isn't available until several years later and a couple hundred thousand dollars more.  Ours has the inadvertent ice system.  Kind of useless in my opinion, especially since it costs about 50 lbs of payload when the tank is full.  However, I guess it will be nice to have if I ever screw up and encounter ice.  From what I can tell, other than pumps and tank size, the main difference between the FIKI and non-FIKI is that the FIKI version covers the entire wing while the non-FIKI doesn't quite reach all the way out to the wingtip.

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7 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

No.  That isn't available until several years later and a couple hundred thousand dollars more.  Ours has the inadvertent ice system.  Kind of useless in my opinion, especially since it costs about 50 lbs of payload when the tank is full.  However, I guess it will be nice to have if I ever screw up and encounter ice.  From what I can tell, other than pumps and tank size, the main difference between the FIKI and non-FIKI is that the FIKI version covers the entire wing while the non-FIKI doesn't quite reach all the way out to the wingtip.

Dual reservoirs, pumps, wing inspection lights, tips of the elevators, windshield, entire wings, and vertical fin.

Clarence

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Bob - S50 Grand Master

Bob - S50

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I said I would come back and give you my impressions of the Cirrus SR22 (2004 - G2) after I checked out in it.  I now have 5 hours of dual (insurance requirement), 3 hours flying time for my leg to bring it home, and several hours in the back seat while my partners flew either dual or as PIC.

1.  Walk around.  Mostly easy since there isn't much to look at.  However, there are FIVE locations to sump in the morning instead of two.  That's a lot of time on my knees for an old man.

2.  Getting in/out. So far, more difficult than the Mooney.  Can't step or kneel on the seat because it might crush part of the impact absorbing material built in for a CAPS landing.  Not too hard to get in, and maybe not too hard to get out for someone younger and more flexible, but I'm still trying to figure out the easiest way.

3.  Ground handling.  Still trying to get used to no nosewheel steering.  Easy to do while rolling straight or initiating a turn, but trying to figure out the lead time to release the inside brake so it rolls out in the right direction.  I still have to use outside brake to stop the turn.  However, with a free castering nosewheel it will turn pretty tightly.

4.  Flying.  Actual hand flying is about the same as the Mooney as far as control forces go, maybe a little lighter in pitch.  However, both roll and pitch controls are spring loaded to the trimmed position, so in order to roll or pitch you have to overcome not only the aerodynamic forces but the spring forces as well.  Still, the total is about the same as the J.  One nice thing about that though is that if I hand fly IFR and look away from the AI, I'm less likely to inadvertently roll into a turn.

5.  Ours has the DFC90 autopilot.  Better than the KFC200 we had when we got the Mooney, but not as good as the GFC500 we installed.  Only took me a few minutes to get used to the DFC90.  Has a few minor quirks, but not bad.

6.  Systems.  More complicated, but kind of nice.  Two batteries, well technically three.  One 24v battery for the main bus and two 12v batteries wired in series for the essential bus.  Two alternators.  Number 1 can power everything so if number 2 quits you haven't lost anything.  If number 1 quits you have everything until the battery dies then you lose the main bus but still have the essential bus which powers the PFD (AI/HSI), #1 GTN650, and autopilot so I have everything I need to get down.  If both alternators were to die then I'm down to battery power.

7.  Speeds.  It weighs about 1000 lbs more than the J.  During the flying we did with 3 people on board, up around 10,000', it seemed to get about 167 to 172 KTAS on 13.5 GPH.  On my leg home I also got about 161 KTAS on about 12.5 GPH.  The final approach speeds taught by the Cirrus training program are 80 KIAS for full flaps, 85 KIAS for 50% flaps, and 90 KIAS for no flaps; but I think those are all too high.  Using those speeds we all floated merrily down the runway for quite awhile before we touched down.  Being the nerd I am, I'm thinking I'll end up using a system similar to what I did in the J (58KIAS + 1.5 KIAS for each 100lbs of payload).  For the SR22 I'm thinking 67 KIAS instead of 58 KIAS.  I'll slowly work my way down to that to see how it works and see if I'm comfortable.  Using that system we should have been using about 77 to 79 knots for the flying we've done so far, but if I fly solo and low fuel it might be closer to 72KIAS.  Also, we are supposed to use 50% flaps for instrument approaches and we were taught 90 - 100 on final until runway in sight.  That would make us Cat B for approaches which makes the minimums 120' higher at the home drone.  Since we are supposed to fly 85 on final for a flaps 50 landing I don't see why I can't (and plan to) fly 85 to 90 on the approach and use Cat A minimums.

8.  Landings.  Easy.  It's a little more pitch sensitive than the J so I got multiple small balloons while I held it off, but all three of us essentially rolled them on staring with the first landing we made.  AND we can actually hold the nose off and slowly lower it to the ground.

9.  Things I don't care for, some of which are particular to our plane.  a).  No manual trim.  If the electric trim motor dies you have no trim control.  b). Trim button location.  The plane has electric pitch and roll trim actuated by a cap on the stick.  However, with where they placed it, we all had problems inadvertently actuating the roll trim when we were trying to adjust the pitch trim.  We then had to go back and adjust the roll trim.  It will take some getting used to, but had they placed the cap a little bit further forward where the AP disconnect button is, I don't think it would have been an issue.  c).  Our plane came with SkyWatch.  Hate it.  Much prefer ADS-B traffic.  While the SkyWatch will see traffic ADS-B won't, the da*n thing just won't shut up in the traffic pattern and you can't turn it off without pulling the CB.

Overall, I like it.  I'll get what I expected.  A plane with a parachute for those very rare times when I can't make it to a runway or for my wife if I become incapacitated, and a little bit more speed than the J at the expense of about 3 or 4 GPH.  Also much more comfortable than the J.  My butt never got sore even on the 4 hour leg from DVT to O43 (up to 40 knot headwinds).  Also, quite a bit more elbow room.

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steingar Grand Master

steingar

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A friend bought a Lanceair, pretty much the equivalent of the Cirrus sans chute.  He said his wife frequently inactivated the autopilot by inadvertently hitting the trim switch on the stick changing pages in her newspaper.

I told him I thought the thing would be only marginally controllable in an electrical failure.  Stick forces were hard, and you only had the little side stick. I flew mostly with trim.  He told me he flipped the breaker on the trim and was able to muscle it around, but it wasn't easy.

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Ragsf15e Grand Master

Ragsf15e

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2 hours ago, Yetti said:

Do chutes work in icing assuming that all the other chute pulling parameters are met?

Yes, there aren’t any “limitations” on that.  It still works.

 The well known case over the Sierras after departing Reno, icing quickly led to stall/out of control, nose dive, chute pulled well above the maximum speed.  Well above.  Chute separated from the airplane with predictable consequences.

Bob can correct me, but max chute pull speed is ~133-140 IAS depending on the model.  Above that, no guarantee.  Pretty easy to get faster than that real quick while you try to figure out what is happening.

However, my boss at a Cirrus school lost the engine in a client’s airplane over Mts in North Idaho.  Glided away from the higher peaks toward a valley, pulled chute at about 2k and both survived landing in a flat area in front of a ranch (right next to a river).

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