Vintage panel upgrade

[Flymu2]

Hi,

I’m considering purchasing an E. Most of them have the scattered instrument panel.

How much, how long, and where to get a vintage panel upgraded to a modern 6 pack? I’m based in the northeast.

 Thanks,

Dennis Wolf

[Chris from PA]

Dennis, Smart Avionics at Donegal Springs Airpark (N71) did this for my C model.  Took about 3 weeks and cost was around 5 AMUs.  I had it done about 4 years ago. I just returned and had them put in an ADSB transponder. Good folks. 

[0TreeLemur]

If you like working with your hands, you can do it yourself for not a lot of dough.  I had access to a water jet system to cut a new panel from aluminum and did the work myself under the supervision of an A&P IA.  The cost for that neglecting my labor, was < 0.5AMU.  Doing it yourself gives you ideas, and a chance to change things up for your liking, and spot potential problems (like broken panel isolation mounts).   We decided to get rid of the EGT selector and install an engine monitor.  The cost of a JPI900, again installed by us under supervision was < 4AMU.  Here's a link showing what we did: 

 

[47U]

Cutting a new panel can be done relatively inexpensively, depending on how much involvement the owner provides.  You can manufacture your own panel (using a template or your own custom design) and have your A&P install it as a minor mod, or install it yourself and have your A&P inspect and sign off your work.

The real cost comes when you start replacing the steam gauges you have for the glass ones you want.

tom

[chriscalandro]

Swapping stock to a standard 6 pack is no big deal.  Inexpensive if you can do it yourself, and can be done in a day or two depending on how far things move. 

 

I wouldnt pass pass on a good airplane because it has the old layout. That would be silly.  

[StevenL757]

4 hours ago, Flymu2 said:

Hi,

I’m considering purchasing an E. Most of them have the scattered instrument panel.

How much, how long, and where to get a vintage panel upgraded to a modern 6 pack? I’m based in the northeast.

 Thanks,

Dennis Wolf

Just curious...besides cost reduction, why would you consider getting rid of your "S" model in lieu of an "E"?

[Clparker23]

I did my own in a 67F, this panel came from Hendricks mfg. it cost 2.5amu or there abouts, took about 20-30 hrs...Had to remove prop and mixture cables, good excuse to replace. That prob took the most time.


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[RLCarter]

7 minutes ago, Clparker23 said:

I did my own in a 67F

Hope it has a RH yoke now, kinda dangerous for the co-pilot in the event of a sudden stop 

[gsxrpilot]

11 minutes ago, Clparker23 said:

That is NICE!

[Flymu2]

Unfortunately I sold the S. I loved that plane, but my wife wanted the parachute, so I bought a Cirrus. Three times the price, less performance. Oh well. Happy wife, happy life :-(

A friend approached me about sharing a pre 201 Mooney. The Cirrus is gone now too, so I’m looking.

[Clparker23]

Hope it has a RH yoke now, kinda dangerous for the co-pilot in the event of a sudden stop 

I duct taped a boxing glove on it! Nah, it does that was just a taxi to see if everything was working, I replaced the gauge cluster at the same time with a cgr30c.


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[steingar]

I dunno, seems like a lot of money for something you get used to if you fly it all the time.  

[carusoam]

There are a few resources around here from doing your own layouts to match the new equipment that is available....

Lasar has a few options...

Hendricks was an MSer for a while and made some really nice pieces of metal. 

http://store-hendricksmfg-com.3dcartstores.com/Instrument-Panel_c_13.html
 

Members of the EAA have used free copies of a cad software package to do panel layout work...

There are many MSer panel layouts getting shared around here...

The latest have Dynon square panels... in place of the old round dials....
 

Get your Mooney back on!

 

Best regards,

-a-

[ryoder]

I’d consider putting in a GI 275 or two first. The 275 will fix most of your scan problems with one indicator and you don’t need to tear up the classic panel layout. Once you have it in there you can always layout the panel later potentially after removing some instruments. 
 

[Flymu2]

Good point. But, the price of the 275 installed is about the same as the panel redo. Hmmm.

[mark21m20c]

Mix of old and new. I would like to add a 275 to replace my cdi.

[Flymu2]

Wow! Beautiful.

Where did you have it done?

[mark21m20c]

A friend did it for us. we are very pleased with  panel layout.

[ryoder]

10 hours ago, Flymu2 said:

Good point. But, the price of the 275 installed is about the same as the panel redo. Hmmm.

Maybe, but moving stuff around still results in an outdated panel.

[Nukemzzz]

Modernizing the panel layout is a major time investment. I’m on the home stretch now, and if I was to add up the time invested figuring out how to fit the gages, measuring, installing solid works, creating the drawings, fixing the drawings, cutting test pieces, making brackets and standoffs to make the panel vertical, rerouting vacuum lines, Rerouting static and dynamic lines, rerouting wires, installing breakers, trimming out the dash area to get things to fit, trimming plastic to get it to fit, cutting prototypes, fixing cad drawings, cutting final, making plexiglass versions and using to locate and mark the mounting holes, deburring thr plates, priming, wet sanding, painting, installing Nulites and getting the wires all spliced and routed...I’m going to say I’m somewhere around 100hrs EASY and I still don’t have it done. 

i spent 30hrs the last two days alone painting and starting to put things back together. This is where I’m at as of 9pm tonight. 
 

[Hank]

Just now, Nukemzzz said:

Modernizing the panel layout is a major time investment. I’m on the home stretch now, and if I was to add up the time invested figuring out how to fit the gages, measuring, installing solid works, creating the drawings, fixing the drawings, cutting test pieces, making brackets and standoffs to make the panel vertical, rerouting vacuum lines, Rerouting static and dynamic lines, rerouting wires, installing breakers, trimming out the dash area to get things to fit, trimming plastic to get it to fit, cutting prototypes, fixing cad drawings, cutting final, making plexiglass versions and using to locate and mark the mounting holes, deburring thr plates, priming, wet sanding, painting, installing Nulites and getting the wires all spliced and routed...I’m going to say I’m somewhere around 100hrs EASY and I still don’t have it done. 

i spent 30hrs the last two days alone painting and starting to put things back together. This is where I’m at as of 9pm tonight. 
 

That looks good and should serve for decades!

But so many people with shotgun panels reinvent the wheel, forgetting that Mooney already did this beginning with 1969 models. This is the left side of my 1970 C. Note that it has more instruments in it. But yours is your design, which very few people can say.

[Nukemzzz]

Just now, Hank said:

That looks good and should serve for decades!

But so many people with shotgun panels reinvent the wheel, forgetting that Mooney already did this beginning with 1969 models. This is the left side of my 1970 C. Note that it has more instruments in it. But yours is your design, which very few people can say.

That diagonal layout is so different that is hard to picture it having a similar skeleton behind the panel!  

[Hank]

12 minutes ago, Nukemzzz said:

That diagonal layout is so different that is hard to picture it having a similar skeleton behind the panel!  

No idea what the supports look like. I just know.an awful lot fits, and it came from Mooney that way. Well, the StormScope was added, but I believe the hole was already there. Radios have changed a lot! Everyone seems quite intent on putting instruments in horizontal lines, even when the panel is cut on an angle.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Hank

[chriscalandro]

20 hours ago, Nukemzzz said:

Modernizing the panel layout is a major time investment. I’m on the home stretch now, and if I was to add up the time invested figuring out how to fit the gages, measuring, installing solid works, creating the drawings, fixing the drawings, cutting test pieces, making brackets and standoffs to make the panel vertical, rerouting vacuum lines, Rerouting static and dynamic lines, rerouting wires, installing breakers, trimming out the dash area to get things to fit, trimming plastic to get it to fit, cutting prototypes, fixing cad drawings, cutting final, making plexiglass versions and using to locate and mark the mounting holes, deburring thr plates, priming, wet sanding, painting, installing Nulites and getting the wires all spliced and routed...I’m going to say I’m somewhere around 100hrs EASY and I still don’t have it done. 

i spent 30hrs the last two days alone painting and starting to put things back together. This is where I’m at as of 9pm tonight. 
 

Those drawings for me were dead on 100% accurate, for future reference can you document what you changed on the drawings?

[Nukemzzz]

1 hour ago, chriscalandro said:

Those drawings for me were dead on 100% accurate, for future reference can you document what you changed on the drawings?

I put 8 gages in the pilot side instead of a glass panel...and that’s the problem. It’s almost impossible to make them fit. Also, with the pilot panel tilted vertical it was too tall.  Maybe yours is mounted at an angle with the glass panel?  Also, they were too wide for mine and hit the roll cage tubes by each window on the sides  

See how I’m having to trim behind the panel for the altimeter to get 8 gages to fit...and I still need to trim more and I’m going to have to put the DG under the altimeter because it won’t fit left of the yoke.  (Yeah, the cut looks terrible at the moment since I roughed it with a dremmel)

Another 8hrs of work today and still don’t have one panel in.  Will hit it again next weekend. 

Anyone that says moving a 60’s M20 to Standard layout like this is easy is smoking something.  Lol