3d printing 3D Printed Instrument Panel Parts

[dmevans]

Hello everyone,

I recently scored a used JPI EDM 830 (huge upgrade from my EI UBG-16) for a killer price. I wanted to flush mount the unit in my panel, which would require me to redesign my existing panel. I saw JPI has a flush mount for around $80, but I didn't want to purchase it if I really didn't need to. Since I was already redesigning my right side panel in CAD, I also decided to design a flush mount for the EDM as well.. I have attached a few images of the 2nd iteration of my design which will use locknuts press fit and epoxied in place. Is it okay to install something like this in my plane? Is it imperative that the mount need to be metal? The part will be constructed out of ABS, so temperature resistance and rigidity/strength are not an issue.

Thanks!

[khedrei]

Guardian sells abs flush mount ipad mounts that are approved for certified aircraft. I have a hard time believing this would be any different. 

[dmevans]

9 minutes ago, khedrei said:

Guardian sells abs flush mount ipad mounts that are approved for certified aircraft. I have a hard time believing this would be any different. 

That's what I figured. I asked a few A&P's on the field what their thoughts were as well. When I mentioned 3D printed parts, they looked at me with a lost look on their face. Lol.

[Browncbr1]

I’d just make sure the filament won’t flame up

[larryb]

ABS is used throughout the airplane. Royalite is ABS. The instrument panel cover is ABS.

[carusoam]

Fancy that, Dmev!
 

That is one of the most awesome 3D print designed parts ever.

Probably the important thing to ask... when installing things in the panel...

Are there any material requirements?

Some panels are made from wood...

Keep in mind some grounding challenges are naturally taken care of by using metal parts... expect to use wire to ground your instrument properly...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[bradp]

What material did you print in?

I love 3D printing and my Prusa is amazing (we’ve been doing face shields for the past few weeks).  

But— there are limitations.  The cockpit is a high heat and potentially high UV environment. Abs would be the best choice.  However the strength of a 3D print is not equivalent to an injection molded part (think air gizmos docks). Use caution and err on the conservative side.  
 

Anecdotal example - I needed a hose barb for my irrigation system. 3D print! I said.  3 hrs later a beautiful ABS part was done.  I took it outside and snapped like a twig when I tried to install. Same material at Lowe’s took a lot more abuse and will likely last a lot longer.  There’s some conventional wisdom why most all panel parts (that aren’t purely cosmetic) are sheet metal. 

[larryb]

7 minutes ago, bradp said:

What material did you print in?

I love 3D printing and my Prusa is amazing (we’ve been doing face shields for the past few weeks).  

But— there are limitations.  The cockpit is a high heat and potentially high UV environment. Abs would be the best choice.  However the strength of a 3D print is not equivalent to an injection molded part (think air gizmos docks). Use caution and err on the conservative side.  
 

Anecdotal example - I needed a hose barb for my irrigation system. 3D print! I said.  3 hrs later a beautiful ABS part was done.  I took it outside and snapped like a twig when I tried to install. Same material at Lowe’s took a lot more abuse and will likely last a lot longer.  There’s some conventional wisdom why most all panel parts (that aren’t purely cosmetic) are sheet metal. 

Are you using an enclosure when printing ABS?  I also use a Prusa. When I was working on my wingtip light project and realized I needed to print in ABS, all of my ABS prints were warping horribly and very weak, especially parallel to the layers. After I built an enclosure the ABS prints were perfect and strong. I also setup the slicer for a full draft shield around the part.

 

The enclosure thing was a learning curve also. My first attempt included insulation for the enclosure. Then the printer got too hot, over 120 degrees F. I wound up removing all of the insulation for the enclosure. It now runs around 95 degrees F inside during a print. I moved the power supply outside of the enclosure.

 

 

 

[dmevans]

16 hours ago, bradp said:

What material did you print in?

I love 3D printing and my Prusa is amazing (we’ve been doing face shields for the past few weeks).  

But— there are limitations.  The cockpit is a high heat and potentially high UV environment. Abs would be the best choice.  However the strength of a 3D print is not equivalent to an injection molded part (think air gizmos docks). Use caution and err on the conservative side.  
 

Anecdotal example - I needed a hose barb for my irrigation system. 3D print! I said.  3 hrs later a beautiful ABS part was done.  I took it outside and snapped like a twig when I tried to install. Same material at Lowe’s took a lot more abuse and will likely last a lot longer.  There’s some conventional wisdom why most all panel parts (that aren’t purely cosmetic) are sheet metal. 

I printed this test print in some left over PLA I had lying around. However, the final product will be either PETG or ABS.

ABS is such a hassle... I have to print in an enclosure, in my garage, and not to mention the nasty fumes...

Going to cut my new panel on the CNC tomorrow!!

 

[bradp]

On 6/9/2020 at 10:11 AM, larryb said:

Are you using an enclosure when printing ABS?  I also use a Prusa. When I was working on my wingtip light project and realized I needed to print in ABS, all of my ABS prints were warping horribly and very weak, especially parallel to the layers. After I built an enclosure the ABS prints were perfect and strong. I also setup the slicer for a full draft shield around the part.

 

The enclosure thing was a learning curve also. My first attempt included insulation for the enclosure. Then the printer got too hot, over 120 degrees F. I wound up removing all of the insulation for the enclosure. It now runs around 95 degrees F inside during a print. I moved the power supply outside of the enclosure.

 

 

 

I’ve actually been using ASA which you’re supposed to be able to print without an enclosure.  I’m pretty convinced it won’t hurt and might help though. 

[carusoam]

Some things that may help to have in mind when it comes to polymer strength...

1) The strength of the molecules is important...

2) The strength of the molecule interactions is the most important...

3) The extrusion and molding process has the molecules all entangled with each other...

4) They stay entangled until after they are cooled off in the mold...

5) The challenge with printing are the entanglements are not easily allowed to happen between cooled layers...

6) The hotter the polymer the more easily entanglements occur... (in the more watery melt phase)

7) the hotter the solid phase, the more easily some entanglements can be made with the surface molecules of the solid phase...

8) I bet the enclosure is all about keeping things as hot as possible... Not allowing a simple breeze to cool the new surface...

9) There will be limitations to ‘hot as possible’...

10) polymer strength is affected by melt temp.   It breaks down with time and temp and becomes more brittle as the mw declines...

11) Part shape will be affected if allowed to stay warmer than the softening point of the polymer...

12) UV resistance is a function of the additives in the polymer.   Most polymers don’t have a natural resistance to heat, flame, O2, or UV...

13) Experiment with part orientation compared to the process orientation... it may be beneficial to select which way is up during the build...

14) when it comes to strength to weight ratios... Thin aluminum sheet makes excellent instrument panels... making an entire instrument panel and mounting instruments to it... has to withstand several gs of force and various amounts of torque as it bounces around in turbulence...

15) the aroma of polystyrene, the S in ABS, is going to be strong.... it has a tendency to stick in your clothing, hair, and nostrils, until washed out...

Hope that helps shed some light on the work you guys are trying to accomplish... possibly help generate a new or different thought...

PP thoughts only, things I learned about from the MS plastics club members. 

Best regards,

-a-

[dmevans]

Finally finished the panel refresh! 

[Danb]

Sweet.. love the engraving sharp..

[chriscalandro]

I think with a heavy infill it should be ok. 

[dmevans]

6 hours ago, Danb said:

Sweet.. love the engraving sharp..

Thanks. Those are actually dry rub decals printed off of my laser jet. Lol!

[dmevans]

5 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

I think with a heavy infill it should be ok. 

Yep! I printed the part with 100% infill. 

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, dmevans said:

Thanks. Those are actually dry rub decals printed off of my laser jet. Lol!

Wow, please share what product that was that you used in your laser printer

[dmevans]

Here are the labels. Pretty neat stuff!

Sunnyscopa Rub-off Transfer Paper...  https://sunnyscopa.com/products/rub-off-transfer-paper?variant=36736195330214

[tmo]

Just to make sure - the "Use Inkjet printer only" note on the page is not relevant, they work fine in a laser?

[dmevans]

12 hours ago, tmo said:

Just to make sure - the "Use Inkjet printer only" note on the page is not relevant, they work fine in a laser?

That was a typo. I used an inkjet for my decals.

[qualleyiv]

On 1/2/2021 at 10:20 PM, dmevans said:

Finally finished the panel refresh! 

That panel looks amazing! I've got mine torn apart currently and I really want to do a custom panel like that in my '64 C. Really nice work!

[dmevans]

10 hours ago, qualleyiv said:

That panel looks amazing! I've got mine torn apart currently and I really want to do a custom panel like that in my '64 C. Really nice work!

Awesome!! If you need any help or have any questions, feel free to send me a PM! Once you get the hang of designing in CAD, the sky is the limit!