Insurance skyrocketing

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

One of the underwriting companies who is no longer participating in the market is joining forces this fall with another company involved in aviation & bringing their tech along to aid in capacity Vs. manual underwriting. We’ll see if that puts downward pressure on rates.

That says to me they really miss the revenue and want to find a way to be back in the business economically. Data driven underwriting has really expanded the life insurance business.

 

[Tim Jodice]

19 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I’ve always felt like I was under paying for insurance. My Mooney cost less to ensure annually then a single vehicle luxury car policy.

I second that. $150K hull on a Mooney costs me about the same as 3 cars with a total value of about 50-60K

[Parker_Woodruff]

30 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

That says to me they really miss the revenue and want to find a way to be back in the business economically. Data driven underwriting has really expanded the life insurance business.

 

Not really.  The underwriting company was removed from Allianz.  They've found new paper to move their underwriting services to.

What happens in our industry is there are insurance companies who want to participate in aviation, but they hire an underwriting manager to write a particular book of business.  Allianz hired Elevon to do this.  Then Allianz non-renewed all personal aircraft policies (losses not worth the revenue).  So Elevon had to find new paper to underwrite on.

[mike_elliott]

I received a credit for my car insurance (USAA) because of the pandemic, and their vision that losses were mitigated because of such (or is it really a marketing ploy?). I also havent instructed in the last couple of months during the shutdown, but dont wait up for my non owned aviation policy to issue a refund or a credit for renewal. I received an 18 3/4% spanking last October for my policy, and most likely will reduce some coverages this coming year with new Ultra transitions being drastically reduced

[GeeBee]

3 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Not really.  The underwriting company was removed from Allianz.  They've found new paper to move their underwriting services to.

What happens in our industry is there are insurance companies who want to participate in aviation, but they hire an underwriting manager to write a particular book of business.  Allianz hired Elevon to do this.  Then Allianz non-renewed all personal aircraft policies (losses not worth the revenue).  So Elevon had to find new paper to underwrite on.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[yvesg]

11 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Not really.  The underwriting company was removed from Allianz.  They've found new paper to move their underwriting services to.

What happens in our industry is there are insurance companies who want to participate in aviation, but they hire an underwriting manager to write a particular book of business.  Allianz hired Elevon to do this.  Then Allianz non-renewed all personal aircraft policies (losses not worth the revenue).  So Elevon had to find new paper to underwrite on.

Parker, I have no clue what all this insurance jargon means. Can you educate me please? The quote I got is actually from Allianz.

Yves

[Hank]

25 minutes ago, yvesg said:

Parker, I have no clue what all this insurance jargon means. Can you educate me please? The quote I got is actually from Allianz.

Yves

You and me both. Good paper is pretty cheap at Office Max, etc., and cheaper by the case than by the ream.  

Edited June 6, 2020 by Hank

[Parker_Woodruff]

42 minutes ago, yvesg said:

Parker, I have no clue what all this insurance jargon means. Can you educate me please? The quote I got is actually from Allianz.

Yves

You're in Canada.  The Allianz/Elevon relationship was for US aircraft.  I don't believe Elevon was ever underwriting for Allianz in Canada.

Allianz still insures corporate and commercial risks here in the US...just not personal use pistons which were underwritten by Elevon.

[Hank]

Just now, Parker_Woodruff said:

You're in Canada.  The Allianz/Elevon relationship was for US aircraft.  I don't believe Elevon was ever underwriting for Allianz in Canada.

Allianz still insures corporate and commercial risks here in the US...just not personal use pistons which were underwritten by Elevon.

I'm guessing that Canadian and U.S. companies both use "paper" which does not come from Office Depot? Underwriters and paper is the jargon over which we puzzle, not the [unmentioned] differences over the border. You used many fine words, even simple ones [which have sneaky, complex meanings], but you were not communicating with your audience . . . Guess I wasn't in the life insurance business long enough . . . .

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

I'm guessing that Canadian and U.S. companies both use "paper" which does not come from Office Depot? Underwriters and paper is the jargon over which we puzzle, not the [unmentioned] differences over the border. You used many fine words, even simple ones [which have sneaky, complex meanings], but you were not communicating with your audience . . . Guess I wasn't in the life insurance business long enough . . . .

got it...let's talk about the food chain.

I'm your retail agent here at Airspeed.  Let's say you have a nice Mooney M20R and you need insurance.  I go check the carriers for rates.

I contact a company you probably know as "USAIG" for a quote.  Well...who is USAIG (United States Aircraft Insurance Group)?  They're not a corporation.  They're a group of insurance companies that forms a pool to share the risk in your insurance policy. Right now, those two insurance companies who make up USAIG are "The Paper":

• National Fire & Liability Insurance Company (50%)
• Ace American Insurance Company (50%)

Here's the deal.  The aviation knowledge doesn't lie with National Fire and Ace American.  They're simply two insurance companies who believe that a company called United States Aviation Underwriters can give them an underwriting profit by insuring all types of aircraft and general liability risks.

In this example, the food chain is:

• Retail Client (Hank)
  • Retail broker/agent (Airspeed Insurance Agency)
    • Underwriter/"Managers" United States Aviation Underwriters --underwriting on behalf of-->
      • USAIG (which is two insurance Carriers who split the USAIG risk) "The Paper".  The member companies of "The Paper" entrust the underwriting to USAU (The aviation expertise in the bunch)
        • Here's a nice description: https://www.usau.com/about/who-we-are/
    • Who manages my claims? USAU.  They're the Managers.

Let's give an example for the many of your insured with Old Republic, formerly Phoenix Aviation Managers:

• Retail Client (Hank)
  • Retail broker/agent (Airspeed Insurance Agency)
    • Underwriter/"Managers" (Old Republic Aerospace, Formerly Phoenix Aviation Managers)
      • Old Republic Insurance Company "The Paper".
        • Old Republic Insurance Company owns Old Republic Aerospace.  Old Republic Aerospace manages the aviation book for Old Republic Insurance Company, owned by Old Republic International (NYSE: ORI)
      • Who manages my claims? Old Republic Aerospace.

[yvesg]

6 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

got it...let's talk about the food chain.

I'm your retail agent here at Airspeed.  Let's say you have a nice Mooney M20R and you need insurance.  I go check the carriers for rates.

I contact a company you probably know as "USAIG" for a quote.  Well...who is USAIG (United States Aircraft Insurance Group)?  They're not a corporation.  They're a group of insurance companies that forms a pool to share the risk in your insurance policy. Right now, those two insurance companies who make up USAIG are "The Paper":

• National Fire & Liability Insurance Company (50%)
• Ace American Insurance Company (50%)

Here's the deal.  The aviation knowledge doesn't lie with National Fire and Ace American.  They're simply two insurance companies who believe that a company called United States Aviation Underwriters can give them an underwriting profit by insuring all types of aircraft and general liability risks.

In this example, the food chain is:

• Retail Client (Hank)
  • Retail broker/agent (Airspeed Insurance Agency)
    • Underwriter/"Managers" United States Aviation Underwriters --underwriting on behalf of-->
      • USAIG (which is two insurance Carriers who split the USAIG risk) "The Paper".  The member companies of "The Paper" entrust the underwriting to USAU (The aviation expertise in the bunch)
        • Here's a nice description: https://www.usau.com/about/who-we-are/
    • Who manages my claims? USAU.  They're the Managers.

Let's give an example for the many of your insured with Old Republic, formerly Phoenix Aviation Managers:

• Retail Client (Hank)
  • Retail broker/agent (Airspeed Insurance Agency)
    • Underwriter/"Managers" (Old Republic Aerospace, Formerly Phoenix Aviation Managers)
      • Old Republic Insurance Company "The Paper".
        • Old Republic Insurance Company owns Old Republic Aerospace.  Old Republic Aerospace manages the aviation book for Old Republic Insurance Company, owned by Old Republic International (NYSE: ORI)
      • Who manages my claims? Old Republic Aerospace.

Parker, we are getting somewhere now. I am about 70% closer to understanding now. A few questions: 

What is the « Aviation book »?

What is meant by « managing the aviation book »? 

Is Allianz part of USAIG?

Why do they call the entities taking the risk « the paper »?

Thanks.

Yves

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

3 hours ago, yvesg said:

Parker, we are getting somewhere now. I am about 70% closer to understanding now. A few questions: 

What is the « Aviation book »?

What is meant by « managing the aviation book »? 

Is Allianz part of USAIG?

Why do they call the entities taking the risk « the paper »?

Thanks.

Yves

 

1. Aviation Book: "Book of business" = segment of their insurance product offerings.  AIG insures life insurance, commercial property & casualty, workers' compensation.  There's a life insurance book of business, P&C book, etc.

2. Managing = underwriting and handling claims and all the admin things associated.

3. Allianz does not participate in USAIG's policy form.

4. The paper....When you get the hard copy of your insurance policy (or maybe it's just a PDF in the age of paperless), that's really the company that's on the hook for claims.  Your policy notes who the actual insurance company (i.e. "carrier") is.  Elevon underwrites on Allianz paper.  USAU underwrites on USAIG paper which is truly a split between National Fire & Liability Insurance Company and ACE American Insurance Company.  Old Republic Aerospace underwrites on Old Republic Insurance Company Paper.  The list goes on...

[yvesg]

6 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

1. Aviation Book: "Book of business" = segment of their insurance product offerings.  AIG insures life insurance, commercial property & casualty, workers' compensation.  There's a life insurance book of business, P&C book, etc.

2. Managing = underwriting and handling claims and all the admin things associated.

3. Allianz does not participate in USAIG's policy form.

4. The paper....When you get the hard copy of your insurance policy (or maybe it's just a PDF in the age of paperless), that's really the company that's on the hook for claims.  Your policy notes who the actual insurance company (i.e. "carrier") is.  Elevon underwrites on Allianz paper.  USAU underwrites on USAIG paper which is truly a split between National Fire & Liability Insurance Company and ACE American Insurance Company.  Old Republic Aerospace underwrites on Old Republic Insurance Company Paper.  The list goes on...

Thanks Parker. The new clause (they want to add on my policy) about increased deductible on hail and windstorm (this is new up here) is it common in USA? I will shop to find out if other providers have a better deal. My increase is 14% and they add this. We do have some thunderstorms and the very rare tornado here but the odds they would hit my airplane are very low. Still would like the deductible to be the same as before.

Yves

[steingar]

Mine didn’t go up bubkiss. Avemco, $1400,  a little less than I’ve been paying.

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 hour ago, yvesg said:

Thanks Parker. The new clause (they want to add on my policy) about increased deductible on hail and windstorm (this is new up here) is it common in USA? I will shop to find out if other providers have a better deal. My increase is 14% and they add this. We do have some thunderstorms and the very rare tornado here but the odds they would hit my airplane are very low. Still would like the deductible to be the same as before.

Yves

There are a couple companies that will limit hail claims to 10% of the insured value if they do not affect the airworthiness of the aircraft.  At least one carrier has a named windstorm deductible (hurricanes, tropical storms).  We let the clients know very transparently if we ever quote a policy that has this.  Most of time it's no factor unless it's a more extreme transition.

[McMooney]

mine went up to $1400 from $1100, sux.  i was expecting a few hundred dollar decrease due to getting my IR

[Browncbr1]

All the insurance premium increase really sucks, but at least some of that is mitigated by the seemingly lowering cost of 100LL.  It’s dropped about $1 so far here..   so that’s good. 

[RLCarter]

50 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

All the insurance premium increase really sucks, but at least some of that is mitigated by the seemingly lowering cost of 100LL.  It’s dropped about $1 so far here..   so that’s good. 

As long as it stays low long enough to burn 1000 gallons 

[jlunseth]

Mine was up about 15%, but that’s just a $330 increase.

[nels]

Just got my quote yesterday....up 50%.

[yvesg]

I decided to contact the broker I was with 4 years ago. The quote came back the same day at about $300 less than my current one. No higher deductible for hail and storm. I will switch back.

Lesson learned: shop around.

Yves

[Seth]

Mine looks to be increasing by 25%.

-Seth

[1001001]

Just got my quote for renewing on the 201 this year.  It has gone down by $8.

[Parker_Woodruff]

3 hours ago, 1001001 said:

Just got my quote for renewing on the 201 this year.  It has gone down by $8.

Easy 50 miles of flying LOP. 

[1001001]

10 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Easy 50 miles of flying LOP. 

I was thinking maybe a couple of pieces of pie to go with a $100 burger.