CO monitors vs the "paper dot" readings

[pkofman]

The other day I posted about indications I was getting on my brand new CO monitor . I had a bunch of responses here and it compelled me to reach out to the company to get some advice and guidance .In my situation I was getting some higher than acceptable very short term readings.  Here is a response I received from the company.., Hope others find this interesting. I asked and  received the companies permission to repost this response.  

BTW my is a AITHRE SHIELD 4.0 

Hi Peter, 

 

Thank you for the additional information. We precision calibrate our devices and the "paper dot" does not work. We have tested several brands up to 255. It is true that our device is sensitive. You will have to watch the trend data over time and determine if you have a problem in your plane. If you can send me a screen-shot I can be more specific but generally under 50ppm is considered tolerable but depending on how high the level and the duration of your exposure you may want to monitor and consult with your mechanic. Remember that hypoxia is a risk that is compounded and combined with O2 levels. So for example if you are flying with high levels of CO and flying at higher altitudes (lower oxygen) you increase your hypoxia risk.

 

Some pilots determine that their plane has some CO levels between a range, say 0-15, depending on what they are doing in flight. Then if over some time there is a change, say they start getting readings in the 20s or 30s, they can try to determine what might have caused the change and investigate. This is where the trend can help.

 

I can’t tell you if you have a problem in your plane, I am not qualified to do so. But you can use our device as a supplement to monitor and help you will have to determine if you should take further action.   

 

I hope that this helps. 

 

Zuzana Melherova, Vice-President and COO

 

PK;

Thank you I have the app. 

I have been using the little stick-on Co monitor for years and never had a reading but this thing is way more sensitive.  Lots of pilot talk about these devices being too sensitive so overreacting  to instantaneous readings.  I’m not sure if I have or do not have an issue??

 

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

The only time I had a CO issue, I had the dot and it turned black. So I can say in my instance the dot will turn black before you die.

This was in the mid 80s and electronic CO monitors didn't exist. Todays technology is much better. But just like engine monitors, people fuss about things that wouldn't have been an issue back in the day...

[Ibra]

How do people read those "paper dot" by night? they just look black whatever light I used  

I think CO monitors are reliable but an average reading over one minute will help, also when I got high readings near ventilation/floor (70ppm on a long taxi in hot days), I did put bring the CO monitor near my face and went LOP while opening the doors, that did the job and things stayed bellow 10ppm  

[Amelia]

After hearing DanB’s harrowing tale and near-miraculous survival, I went and invested in the most basic Sensorcon CO detector. Replaced my silly paper dot with an instrument that detects minute amounts.. On start-up and taxi, with the window open, I see low CO levels, which reassures me the thing is working, but zero in cruise. Apparently if things got serious, it’d set up an unholy racket. Sensorcon just sent me a spring sale notice, if anybody is in the market.

[skydvrboy]

I'm not sure about the model you have, but the Sensorcon is sensitive enough that you can move it around the cockpit and find the source of the CO.  Mine will show low (<50) readings when in taxi, climb, and final if the winds are just right.  One thing to check, turn your heater on and see if the reading goes up or down when you put it in the airflow coming from the heat duct.  If it goes up, even a little, you have a problem.  If it goes down, you are getting CO from some other place, which is not as big a concern, but should still be found and fixed.

[gsxrpilot]

I've been privileged to be asked and been able to fly in lots of Mooneys over the last few years. It's always fun to ride in someone else's airplane. But two things always go with me. My own headset, and my Sensorcon CO detector. I won't ride in a piston single without one.

[aviatoreb]

Now what would we think of the work place if instead of a fire-alarm - 

They had a white paper sensor in the hallways that turned color if there was a fire?

[pkofman]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

Now what would we think of the work place if instead of a fire-alarm - 

They had a white paper sensor in the hallways that turned color if there was a fire?

Your 100% correct...and I bet most people including me still have them in their airplanes

[whiskytango]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've been privileged to be asked and been able to fly in lots of Mooneys over the last few years. It's always fun to ride in someone else's airplane. But two things always go with me. My own headset, and my Sensorcon CO detector. I won't ride in a piston single without one.

Agree 100%.  Not to be an alarmist, but I also take my Sensorcon into hotel rooms when I am on the road.  I am aware of multiple incidents where the venting systems on commercial gas-fired domestic water heaters and heating boilers in hotels have failed, and guests have died or sustained permanent brain damage as a result of CO exposure.

[Hank]

5 hours ago, pkofman said:

Your 100% correct...and I bet most people including me still have them in their airplanes

That's what I used, until I heard Dan talk at the Mooney Summit. Then I ordered a Sensorcon using his discount code. My gas loga and old truck are clean, but running the oven a long time can cause ~40ppm in the living room . . . .  

[carusoam]

6 hours ago, pkofman said:

Your 100% correct...and I bet most people including me still have them in their airplanes

Like a good luck charm... or a co-pilot bear... or a plastic Jesus...

When the time comes...

A real CO monitor complete with an alarm has been shown to work...

The paper changing color is still good... it needs to be changed regularly on a schedule... and scanned like any other instrument...

Out of date/stale, not as good... not scanned... ask Dan B. (DanM20C) the rip in the muffler opened up within a flight... if he had the monitor at the time... his wondering would have been confirmed... early enough to make a difference...

 

As humans we are excellent at skipping things that don’t change for months or years...

We are moderately good at wondering what that strange noise is...

As for the plastic Jesus... I have him facing forwards to see out the windshield, to hold off meeting with the real Jesus...   

As for the bumpy readings... We get to know what causes them... often different phases of the flight... or taxiing behind Brand B pilots...

or doing a run-up with a tail wind...

or sitting in a line of 50 formators... 

When it beeps, and the reading increases... you know you want to do something different...

It helps to have the chart memorized for a couple of points... the normal in flight number is close to zero, less than 10...

When it changes and says something like 50 -100... something important has changed...

A few flights you should be able to get a feel for what causes the various readings in your plane...

Look forward to the high readings on the ground... you are in line behind a bunch of Mooney formation pilots... who are not leaned to LOP... 

Thanks for sharing the details...

Best regards,

-a-

[DJE22]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

That's what I used, until I heard Dan talk at the Mooney Summit. Then I ordered a Sensorcon using his discount code. My gas loga and old truck are clean, but running the oven a long time can cause ~40ppm in the living room . . . .  

Just received shipment of my sensorcon unit. I had one sent to my son in Georgia also!

first use will be this weekend.

[aviatoreb]

On 3/19/2020 at 11:38 PM, carusoam said:

Like a good luck charm... or a co-pilot bear... or a plastic Jesus...

 

Co-pilot bear is a kick ass stoic test pilot hero bear.  Co-pilot bear always knows what to do.

[Gagarin]

I can understand the concern of CO levels in a single but why automobile drivers are not. I fly with the overhead vents pointed at my face for cooling and to keep away any possible CO leak. Early open cockpit pilots flew radial engines with their exhaust pointed backwards toward the cockpit. And you could see on their faces exhaust marks.

Next thing you are going to see is a Coronavirus detector for pilots. 

[JohnB]

Paper dots should not be sold. One of the first things that goes if you have carbon monoxide poisoning is your sense of color vision, so even if you were lucky enough to to glance at your dot in case of CO poisoning, you would have no idea what color it was.

if you still have a paper dot in your airplane, remove it and place a real CO detector with an alarm. The only use I can imagine for a paper dot is for an NTSB agent if they see one of those in your plane with a color change, they may be able to deduce the cause of a fatal accident, but this won’t help you. You need something that will alert you so you can get on the ground safely and get the problem fixed. A dot won’t do that. 

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, Gagarin said:

I can understand the concern of CO levels in a single but why automobile drivers are not. I fly with the overhead vents pointed at my face for cooling and to keep away any possible CO leak. Early open cockpit pilots flew radial engines with their exhaust pointed backwards toward the cockpit. And you could see on their faces exhaust marks.

Next thing you are going to see is a Coronavirus detector for pilots. 

José,

Very important... things have changed...

Automobiles USED TO BE very dangerous for CO poisoning....

People stuck in their cars during snow storms were at risk... of either freezing to death, or running the heat and dying from CO poisoning... most weren’t aware of the CO issue...  

public service announcements were teaching to make sure the exhaust pipe was kept clear... as snow would cover the car...

 

Today...

1) O2 sensors and modern fuel injected engines do a great job of running LOP and burning the fuel more completely...

2) Catalytic converters help finish the process... of converting all the half burned fuel to water and CO2....

So ...if the exhaust system is in good working shape... very little CO comes out the end...

If the exhaust system splits open before the cat... watch out...

my exhaust system was failing on my FB... so I brought my CO detector with me... it alarmed immediately.

 

Stuff I learned on MS...

Best regards,

-a-