ChrisV Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 https://komonews.com/news/local/no-injuries-after-small-plane-lands-off-paine-field-runway Quote
ChrisV Posted December 30, 2019 Author Report Posted December 30, 2019 Couldn't find anything further about this, but these really scare me. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 Properly set pre-load on the gear makes this virtually impossible. I know the MSC that I work with for maintenance, not only knows how to check and set the pre-load properly, but also understands the consequences of not setting it correctly. 1 Quote
neilpilot Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: Properly set pre-load on the gear makes this virtually impossible. Unless it's a vintage Mooney with manual gear and a worn locking block 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 Then... Proper procedure is your best friend, no? Down and locked... It is really a two step procedure. There should be no fear... Knowledge is power... Probably helps to be a mechanical engineer or machinist or mechanic while being involved with your annual inspections.... Otherwise there is a lot of trust placed in your mechanic... make sure you have a good one. PP thoughts only, not a ME, machinist, or mechanic... I’m still looking in the pic for where the Mooney is... Best regards, -a- Quote
eman1200 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 7 hours ago, ChrisV said: Couldn't find anything further about this, but these really scare me. why? Quote
ArtVandelay Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, eman1200 said: why? When my engine had 1800+ hours on it, I never gave a second thought. Now, after my overhaul... I think about it especially when people post incidents like this. :-( Quote
Igor_U Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 Picture shows NG and LMLG extended and RMLG collapsed. To my understanding this could only happen if something broke at the landing. Airplane veered off rwy 16R but not much damage and probably no prop strike. 1 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 That sure looks like an improperly adjusted over-center on that gear. When the over-center is done right, there is no load on the extension mechanism. But if done wrong, it's a lot of weight to hold and can easily collapse. Insert @carusoam normal disclaimer here... Quote
carusoam Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N1086S We have at least one David that is a Bravo owner on MS... Best regards, -a- Quote
aviatoreb Posted December 30, 2019 Report Posted December 30, 2019 Once about a dozen years ago, my friend at my home airport had a gear collapse when I was watching him land. Gear were down, it rolled a moment until all the weight came down on it then boom it collapsed and screeched to a quick stop. In an M20C. It was "totaled" by insurance because of the hull value, but then later we saw it selling again in airworthy condition from a repo business. E Quote
gsxrpilot Posted December 31, 2019 Report Posted December 31, 2019 My former M20C (N6XM) had a gear collapse while rolling onto the runway. 1 Quote
bradp Posted December 31, 2019 Report Posted December 31, 2019 Something broke. Probably bad preload but I’d think the retract rod to that gear leg would have to be busted by the weight on that leg to get it to swing independently. 1 Quote
mike_elliott Posted December 31, 2019 Report Posted December 31, 2019 15 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: My former M20C (N6XM) had a gear collapse while rolling onto the runway. Worn down lock block? Quote
Andy95W Posted December 31, 2019 Report Posted December 31, 2019 1 hour ago, mike_elliott said: Worn down lock block? Paul can tell the story better, but in the case of his old M20C, the new owner took it for an annual inspection and the new shop felt the need to completely re-rig the landing gear. It failed shortly thereafter. Rigging is obviously important, but many still don't quite get the narrow window that the gear has to be rigged. Too loose, and the over-centers won't hold and the gear will collapse. Too tight, on the other hand, and components will break, usually at the welds at the gear themselves. The Johnson Bar can produce a surprising amount of force due to the long lever arm, and old welds are no match for it. The ease of movement and locking of a properly rigged Johnson Bar is surprisingly light. A lot of people have been mentioning the down lock block here lately, but I would be surprised if even 5% of gear failures were due to wear at that point. And the latch on the down block will still work even with a severely worn out block. Additionally, the original Johnson Bar Mooneys didn't even have a latch- but pilot error led to its creation. 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted December 31, 2019 Report Posted December 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said: Can i add a different view. Was this a hard left turn that put too much load on the right gear and as a consequence it collapsed. Not necessarily badly rigged just too mich load? Or the scenario would be cross wind, hard landing while drifting sideways. Quote
carusoam Posted December 31, 2019 Report Posted December 31, 2019 It would be difficult to get enough side loading to bend the gear... the tires don’t have that much grip... Technique is important... putting the upwind wheel down first has a couple of benefits... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a- Quote
gsxrpilot Posted December 31, 2019 Report Posted December 31, 2019 2 hours ago, mike_elliott said: Worn down lock block? 46 minutes ago, Andy95W said: Paul can tell the story better, but in the case of his old M20C, the new owner took it for an annual inspection and the new shop felt the need to completely re-rig the landing gear. It failed shortly thereafter. Rigging is obviously important, but many still don't quite get the narrow window that the gear has to be rigged. Too loose, and the over-centers won't hold and the gear will collapse. Too tight, on the other hand, and components will break, usually at the welds at the gear themselves. The Johnson Bar can produce a surprising amount of force due to the long lever arm, and old welds are no match for it. The ease of movement and locking of a properly rigged Johnson Bar is surprisingly light. A lot of people have been mentioning the down lock block here lately, but I would be surprised if even 5% of gear failures were due to wear at that point. And the latch on the down block will still work even with a severely worn out block. Additionally, the original Johnson Bar Mooneys didn't even have a latch- but pilot error led to its creation. Yeah @Andy95W tells it pretty well. The shop that did the annual and reset the, according to them, out of spec over-centers, obviously wouldn't admit to anything. Once the insurance company showed up, no one would talk for fear of getting stuck with the bill. I'd bet a tank of 100LL that they mis-rigged the over-centers. Laura at SWTA had checked them every 100 hours for me as long as I owned the plane. I obviously never had a problem. Then the new owner takes it in for annual and the shop, not a Mooney shop or MSC, says the gear is rigged wrong and changes it. A few flight hours later, it's sitting on it's belly with the gear collapsed. Quote
StevenL757 Posted December 31, 2019 Report Posted December 31, 2019 On 12/30/2019 at 11:08 AM, gsxrpilot said: Properly set pre-load on the gear makes this virtually impossible. I know the MSC that I work with for maintenance, not only knows how to check and set the pre-load properly, but also understands the consequences of not setting it correctly. Absolutely. Same with my IA. 1 Quote
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