New Garmin panel. Switch issue. Advice?

[khedrei]

Looking for some thoughts.

My K is in for a complete redo. I have basically opted for almost everything save the second TXi screen. I'm going with a Guardian avionics flush mount ipad mount with a flightstream 510 to sync everything. 

Here is the current issue. It isnt huge but aparently the circuit breaker switch that runs the strobes can't handle the new strobes even though they are LED. AEROLED's is calling for 5 amps per strobe. My avionics guy says I have an 8 amp switch I think. Problem is they dont make the style I have anymore. It looks like Lasar is out of stock on the 15 amp. So if I go with the other style I basically have to replace them all to look uniform to the tune of 300 +/- USD each. And just my luck one will fail even if I did find one for the strobe. The other option is to leave the master and probably the high and low boost to the left (since the high boost has that momentary spring for short durations) and switch the rest to the toggle switches which are only 50 CAD each. I dont want it to look cheap. They would at least be separated from the rocker style ones to the right of the yoke but I honestly dont really like them. Look a bit cheap and like a homebuilt. All the modern Mooneys have the rocker style and I havent seen any with the metal toggle switches.

Pictures of my current switches as well as the proposed layout and possible toggle switch are attached.

Thoughts? Ideas? I'd like to avoid spending 2 AMU on new switches. This is expensive enough.

[carusoam]

Horizontal iPad makes for better inflight entertainment...   

Not sure if there is any value added to the angled CB panel... I usually use my sense of feel to see what is happening/popped out over there...

You have the great opportunity to change all the CB switches to something new and different...

Somebody posted the use of some really nice switches that were modern and lighted... and the ordinary CBs were mounted in the other part of the panel...  CB switches were important around the mid 50s for some reason... the current manufacturer has made them ridiculously expensive, without adding any value...  

PP thoughts only, not often an iPad movie watcher...

Best regards,

-a-

[khedrei]

Are you saying the angled CB panel isnt required? I thought it had to be that way. Could I make it completely flat?

I saw the post of the new hopewell illuminated switches. My installer didnt like the idea though. I guess it would only be 8 extra circuit breakers. He just didnt like the second failure point running things to another component. 

What about the high boost pump? Is that spring back for momentary action required?

[carusoam]

You are working with a mechanic right?

Ask him how to accomplish that...

Many Mooney panels did things that didn’t pan out over time...
 

As if the angled panel did something that moving your head didn’t...

Most long Body panels are the same width... most are flat the whole way...

Often somebody will angle the mount of a panel mounted device to add the angle...

Some of the short bodies still have their horizontal fold... so the bottom of the panel points up towards the pilot’s eyes...  nice, but not very helpful for gyros...

PP thoughts only

Best regards,

-a-

[Oldguy]

On 11/30/2019 at 7:27 PM, khedrei said:

Looking for some thoughts.

My K is in for a complete redo. I have basically opted for almost everything save the second TXi screen. I'm going with a Guardian avionics flush mount ipad mount with a flightstream 510 to sync everything. 

Here is the current issue. It isnt huge but aparently the circuit breaker switch that runs the strobes can't handle the new strobes even though they are LED. AEROLED's is calling for 5 amps per strobe. My avionics guy says I have an 8 amp switch I think. Problem is they dont make the style I have anymore. It looks like Lasar is out of stock on the 15 amp. So if I go with the other style I basically have to replace them all to look uniform to the tune of 300 +/- USD each. And just my luck one will fail even if I did find one for the strobe. The other option is to leave the master and probably the high and low boost to the left (since the high boost has that momentary spring for short durations) and switch the rest to the toggle switches which are only 50 CAD each. I dont want it to look cheap. They would at least be separated from the rocker style ones to the right of the yoke but I honestly dont really like them. Look a bit cheap and like a homebuilt. All the modern Mooneys have the rocker style and I havent seen any with the metal toggle switches.

Pictures of my current switches as well as the proposed layout and possible toggle switch are attached.

Thoughts? Ideas? I'd like to avoid spending 2 AMU on new switches. This is expensive enough.

Have you thought about looking for what you want on the used market through someone like @Alan Fox or @acpartswhse? If you have a part number for LASAR to check, it should also work with either of these folks.

Just a thought.

[Alan Fox]

Easy Peasy , have the 8 amp switch , drive a 10 amp relay....  

[JimB]

Your aircraft has a 28v system, correct? All the Aeroled strobes I see draw 3.00 amps peak per strobe and .4 amps average. You might want to check all of that and make sure you really have a problem. The 12v strobe does draw 4.8 amps. 

[khedrei]

14 Volts. So yes it looks like I will need a 15 Amp switch. I actually have a 10 Amp switch so regardless its still not going to work. Not sure I understand the part about the relay.

My mechanic isnt willing to sign off any switches that dont have paperwork for the plane. STC or whatever else could suffice so I'm going to have to find a used one or settle for the toggle switches. 

[carusoam]

K,

The paperwork could be as simple as the parts manual for your Mooney...

Or it could come from a variety of FAA standards...

Used or new... same paperwork required...

What your mechanic is saying... the aviation aisle at HD does not apply...

If shopping in the aircraft spruce site... lots of things are there for experimental aircraft.... you need the parts that meet the certified version...

I’m not really understanding what your mechanic told you... 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

best regards,

-a-

[tmo]

The relay part is a really smart idea - you use a small current through the switch to energize a relay that allows the bigger current to flow through it.  Not sure about the legalities, but a simple yet effective solution.

[Baker Avionics]

On 11/30/2019 at 5:27 PM, khedrei said:

Looking for some thoughts.

My K is in for a complete redo. I have basically opted for almost everything save the second TXi screen. I'm going with a Guardian avionics flush mount ipad mount with a flightstream 510 to sync everything. 

Here is the current issue. It isnt huge but aparently the circuit breaker switch that runs the strobes can't handle the new strobes even though they are LED. AEROLED's is calling for 5 amps per strobe. My avionics guy says I have an 8 amp switch I think. Problem is they dont make the style I have anymore. It looks like Lasar is out of stock on the 15 amp. So if I go with the other style I basically have to replace them all to look uniform to the tune of 300 +/- USD each. And just my luck one will fail even if I did find one for the strobe. The other option is to leave the master and probably the high and low boost to the left (since the high boost has that momentary spring for short durations) and switch the rest to the toggle switches which are only 50 CAD each. I dont want it to look cheap. They would at least be separated from the rocker style ones to the right of the yoke but I honestly dont really like them. Look a bit cheap and like a homebuilt. All the modern Mooneys have the rocker style and I havent seen any with the metal toggle switches.

Pictures of my current switches as well as the proposed layout and possible toggle switch are attached.

Thoughts? Ideas? I'd like to avoid spending 2 AMU on new switches. This is expensive enough.

Do yourself a favor, first of all.  Go to your Avionics Shop, or if you are doing your own installation, either way.....pull the carpet out!!!!  That is a travesty in my opinion.  I would write my techs up for this!!!!!!

[Alan Fox]

1 hour ago, Baker Avionics said:

Do yourself a favor, first of all.  Go to your Avionics Shop, or if you are doing your own installation, either way.....pull the carpet out!!!!  That is a travesty in my opinion.  I would write my techs up for this!!!!!!

Not if it is glued , then it should have cardboard cut out and put over the carpet...

[Baker Avionics]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:47 PM, Alan Fox said:

Not if it is glued , then it should have cardboard cut out and put over the carpet...

Absolutely!  Either way, it is wrong!!!

[bradp]

Look for little drips of solder in your carpet when you get the panel back.

[bradp]

I thought I had posted this earlier.  Nice panel with Tyco CB switches employed.

Brad

 

[khedrei]

Thanks for the tips on the carpet. I doubt those are solder burns but I'm sure he will make good if they are. You are right they should be removed I get what you mean but I'm not terribly concerned about the dirt. I'll chose my battles wisely. This guy has been really great in every other way. 

Thanks for the post Brad. Those toggle switches dont look too bad. As far as paperwork he said the switches need an STC or approval for install on a certified aircraft. The nice ones at aircraft spruce that look exactly like the ones in the new Acclaim are meant for experimental only even though they are super rugged and used in marine applications. 

https://m.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/nwm-switch-light.php

I will ask about the relay.

The other issue I'm having is that the high boost must stay as a rocker switch because of the momentary spring loaded safety cover that returns the switch to off. I would have preferred even a 3 position toggle with a momentary function in one direction and "on" in the other. But apparently that's not the same function as what is written in the POH so not legal. If I cant get a 15A rocker switch I'm stuck with about half rockers and half toggles. It's insane to me that a CB switch is several hundred dollars and may not even be available.  But I also heard a fuel cap from mooney is over 2k... so... yeah.

I'm headed there today. Perhaps he will have more news. 

[bradp]

Don’t let your IA / AP / repairs station fuss too much about STCs and the TC for what would be considered “standard” electrical parts (like a switch).  People occasionally freak out about things like the 45 year relay part number not being available when there are plenty of modern alternatives.  Having read the FAA definition over and over, my take is that if replacement of a part is a standard electrical part - circuit breaker, switch, bulb, etc and has SAE or ANSI certification, and caries a certificate of conformance, you should be very legal substituting it. No need for an STC.  This is a minor modification through and through.

Read this and then consider the replacement of a circuit breaker switch with an identically functioning standard part.

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/standard_parts/media/standard_parts.pdf

Let’s get that popcorn on the stove....  :-)